<p>My son has a pretty broad range of interests and is not sure of his major (may be in classics, or some social science, or some new interest), but one longstanding interest is biology/neuroscience/cognitive psych/linguistics, so we definitely want a place where he could pursue these seriously if that is the way he wanted to go. So with this in mind, is it even worth considering the LACs like Swarthmore/Amherst/Williams/Dartmouth/Haverford? A friend who is a Columbia prof thinks that for serious interest in science, you need to be at a research univiversity (although he thinks any of the LACs are fine for premed or just a "well rounded" type of interest in science). Thoughts? Are any of these LACs stronger in science than others? Thanks much (note I strongly suspect none of these would be his very top choices for other reasons).</p>
<p>Brandeis is a research university but it has the feel of a LAC.</p>
<p>I also have now been informed by many, including our college counselor, that Dartmouth is a research university and should not have been included in this question. Am still interested in people who may have looked into the science/biology opportunity at these colleges though.</p>
<p>Percentage of total grads getting PhDs in Engineering, Hard Science, and Math</p>
<p>Liberal arts colleges in bold</p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees: ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database
Number of Undergraduates: ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database<br>
Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period<br>
1 34% California Institute of Technology<br>
2 ** 24% Harvey Mudd College **
3 16% Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
4 ** 10% Reed College **
5 9% Rice University
6 ** 8% Swarthmore College **
7 8% Princeton University<br>
8 ** 7% Carleton College **
9 7% New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology<br>
10 7% University of Chicago<br>
11 7% Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
12 7% Case Western Reserve University
13 6% Harvard University<br>
14 6% Carnegie Mellon University<br>
15 6% Johns Hopkins University<br>
16 ** 6% Haverford College **
17 ** 6% Grinnell College **
18 6% Cornell University, All Campuses<br>
19 ** 5% Kalamazoo College **
20 5% Stanford University
21 5% Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
22 5% Yale University
23 5% Cooper Union<br>
24 ** 5% Oberlin College **
25 ** 5% Lawrence University **
26 ** 5% Bryn Mawr College **
27 ** 5% Williams College **
28 ** 5% Pomona College **
29 4% Colorado School of Mines<br>
30 ** 4% Bowdoin College **
31 ** 4% Earlham College **
32 4% Brown University<br>
33 4% University of Rochester
34 4% University of California-Berkeley<br>
35 ** 4% Wabash College **
36 4% Duke University
37 4% Worcester Polytechnic Institute
38 ** 4% Amherst College **
39 4% Stevens Institute of Technology
40 ** 4% St Olaf College **
41 ** 4% Hendrix College **
42 ** 4% Beloit College **
43 4% University of Missouri, Rolla<br>
44 4% University of California-San Francisco<br>
45 ** 4% Occidental College **
46 4% Alfred University, Main Campus<br>
47 ** 4% Allegheny College **
48 ** 4% Whitman College **
49 ** 4% College of Wooster **
50 4% SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry<br>
51 ** 4% Mount Holyoke College **
52 ** 4% Bates College **
53 4% College of William and Mary
54 ** 4% Knox College **
55 ** 3% Franklin and Marshall College **
56 3% Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus<br>
57 3% Washington University<br>
58 3% Long Island University Southampton Campus<br>
59 ** 3% Macalester College **
60 3% University of California-San Diego<br>
61 3% Dartmouth College<br>
62 ** 3% Wellesley College **
63 3% Trinity University<br>
64 ** 3% Juniata College **
65 ** 3% Ripon College **
66 3% University of California-Davis<br>
67 3% Florida Institute of Technology
68 3% Polytechnic University<br>
69 3% Michigan Technological University<br>
70 3% Columbia University in the City of New York
71 3% Lehigh University<br>
72 3% University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign<br>
73 ** 3% Centre College **
74 ** 3% Hampshire College **
75 3% University of Pennsylvania<br>
76 ** 3% Wesleyan University **
77 3% University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
78 ** 3% Colorado College **
79 3% Bucknell University
80 ** 3% Davidson College **
81 3% Northwestern Univ<br>
82 3% Texas Lutheran University<br>
83 ** 3% St John's College (both campus) **
84 ** 3% Furman University **
85 ** 3% Hope College **
86 2% Clarkson University
87 2% University of Virginia, Main Campus
88 2% Illinois Institute of Technology<br>
89 2% Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State Univ<br>
90 ** 2% Union College (Schenectady, NY) **
91 2% University of California-Santa Cruz
92 ** 2% Lafayette College **
93 2% Brandeis University
94 2% University of Dallas<br>
95 ** 2% Rhodes College **
96 2% University of Notre Dame<br>
97 ** 2% Middlebury College **
98 2% University of Wisconsin-Madison
99 ** 2% Colgate University **
100 ** 2% Hiram College **
</p>
<p>When you compare, for example, the 8% figure at a top LAC to MIT’s 16%, keep in mind that this is 8% of all graduates and only about a third of graduating class is made up of science majors at an LAC.</p>
<p>You will need to look closely at Linguistics. Some of the schools you mentioned are very strong in Linguistics. </p>
<p>[The</a> Linguists](<a href=“http://www.thelinguists.com/]The”>http://www.thelinguists.com/)</p>
<p>Some of the others don’t offer linguistics courses at all.</p>
<p>I sent you a PM re my daughter’s terrific experience at Swarthmore (and now beyond) in some of the fields you’re talking about.</p>
<p>Haverford and Wesleyan are commonly regarded as having the two strongest science programs among LACs, for what it’s worth…</p>
<p>All the LACs on your list are top-drawer. I know from my son’s college search that Swarthmore and Haverford have strong science departments, facilities, and resources. I’d bet the rest of the schools you list also have great departments, facilities, and resources (within the framework of an LAC). Still, you should be aware that even at LACs with strong science departments, there are weaker and stronger areas. It’s important for your son to evaluate facilities, faculty sizes, research interests of faculty, etc. in specific areas of interest.</p>
<p>Research opportunities may differ, too. Yes, LACS offer research opportunities, but the variety and scope may be relatively modest. Research universities offer many opportunities for undergrads to get involved in faculty research projects, but undergrads may have to be aggressive in seeking them out, and there’s a larger, more competitive pool of undergrads vying for opportunities.</p>
<p>Agree with smartalic. If he’s looking for Northeastern LACS with strong science programs, add Wesleyan to the list.</p>
<p>I have to agree with interesteddad that if your S definitely wants to take linguistics, he will need to investigate it specifically. The number of research universities with weak ling programs is surprising: Princeton, for example, offers only a “certificate” in linguistics. Columbia offers only a “special concentration.”</p>
<p>Of the schools that you’ve listed specifically, Swarthmore is probably the best LAC in the country for linguistics. Haverford ling is basically Swarthmore ling, but you’ll have to commute. Amherst ling is nonexistent, requiring you to commute to UMass-Amherst. Williams ling is even worse, because the lone linguistics professor just got fired.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is strong in cog psych/neuro, and in Ling. D also does classics well, and other social sciences (Econ, for example).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Meaning, nonexistant, IMO. (I am not a big fan of cross-registration.)</p>
<p>Have you condsidered Middlebury? The college now has a minor in linguistics:
[Linguistics</a> Minor | Middlebury](<a href=“Linguistics | Middlebury College”>Linguistics | Middlebury College)</p>
<p>I didn’t comment on Dartmouth ling because I’m not familiar with it, but yes–it does actually have a department, which is kind of important(!). I’m not a big fan of cross-reg either, but students at Haverford (and also Bryn Mawr) do use the major-in-linguistics-at-Swarthmore option. Similarly, Wellesley’s ling program is excellent IF you’re willing to commute to MIT (and some people are). For standalone linguistics major, not self-designed, at LACs, your options are literally limited to Swarthmore, Carleton, Macalester, Pomona, and Pitzer.</p>
<p>I’m glad to see that Midd’s new ling minor finally got its own webpage. A quick glance at the courses being offered shows that it is still a long way from being able to offer a rigorous, coherent major on its own–formal ling theory is almost entirely lacking. The current offerings are barely sufficient to sustain a minor, with a recommendation to take linguistics courses abroad.</p>
<p>Wow this is amazing info. What about hypsm for linguistics? I know MIT is obviously very strong And believe Yale and Harvard are too. Don’t know about Stanford? My problem is that my son is so unsure, that it seems a waste to do huff research on every college in every possible field of interest. Maybe the larger universities are the better way to go for that reason…</p>
<p>LAC’s, in my opinion, are great options for fields like chemistry, biology, physics. More “hardcore” fields-ones that involve a more hands on approach if you will such as CS or engineering- are not LAC’s strongest points. a research university would be more appropriate Depends on what you want to do</p>
<p>Just a comment on the information in interesteddad’s post above. Harvey Mudd College is in bold-face as a liberal arts college, and indeed HMC bills itself as a liberal arts school focused on science/engineering, but it’s really a different beast than most of the other liberal arts colleges mentioned. Note, for example, that the majors available at Mudd are Biology, Chemistry, Biology/Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, Engineering, Computer Science, Mathematics/Computer Science, Mathematics/Biology, Independent Program of Study, and Off Campus Major (in which case you must complete a minor in one of the on campus technical majors). Mudd touts its liberal arts persona to underscore its mission to “educate engineers, scientists and mathematicians well versed in all of these areas and in the humanities and social sciences so that they may assume leadership in their fields with a clear understanding of the impact of their work on society”. However, it really should be considered among math/science oriented institutions like Caltech and MIT.</p>
<p>^^OTOH, if engineering really is his strong suit, he’ll need to begin taking prereqs as soon as frosh year. The clock is ticking.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I dunno. Two Swarthmore engineering majors last year built a working hydrogen fuel cell powered Buell motorcycle for their senior project. That seems pretty “hands on” to me.</p>
<p>[Homemade</a> Hydrogen Motorcycle Is Ugly, But It Runs | Autopia | Wired.com](<a href=“http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/03/two-college-stu/]Homemade”>Homemade Hydrogen Motorcycle Is Ugly, But It Runs | WIRED)</p>
<p>Among LACs with outstanding science depts, Grinnell should be included. Brand new science and other facilities, lots of money for student research, the smallest intro classes in the sciences of any LAC, faculty who get rave reviews on rate-my-prof, no distribution requirements, and great merit aid.</p>
<p>I also think Bucknell is a good LAC engineering college; it has a strong science department and its fin. aid has been known to be good</p>