<p>I'm not a parent, but I would greatly appreciate a parent's perspective on this issue. I'm a Singaporean who has been admitted to NYU Stern, and I'm having a hard time convincing my parents to let me matriculate there. Here are the reasons that my mum has been repeating over and over again:</p>
<p>a) I am not mature enough. Whether she is referring to my rationale for deciding to study there, or whether I can cope with being independent, I am not certain.</p>
<p>b) I should study accountancy locally and then pursue my Masters abroad in order to stretch my dollar. Thing is, I have absolutely no interest in accountancy and don't see myself being an accountant. My mother proposes I appeal to undergraduate law school in my second year but I would much rather have an uninterrupted education than a mere hope that my mother is gunning for.</p>
<p>c) It is costly. I definitely agree that NYU is a very expensive school, but I feel that the experience is invaluable.</p>
<p>My parents can definitely afford it, so I suspect their reasons are more emotional than practical. My sister studied in the US and has shown no inclination to return, and that might be a factor contributing to my mother's hesitance. Personally, I really can't see anything my parents will stand to gain from sending me abroad, so is there anything that I can say to persuade her at all? I will greatly appreciate any advice!</p>
<p>Although Stern is a great business school, I am not sure I would describe the NYU experience as “invaluable”. Perhaps you are referring to living in NYC. If that’s the case, why not just move there when you get a job and get paid for that “invaluable” experience? In terms of campus experiences, there are far better and more “invaluable” university campuses. Did you get any other acceptances?</p>
<p>I only applied to three US schools: Columbia, UPenn and NYU. I was rejected by the first two. I’m sorry if I was vague, but the “experience” I talked about refers to the entire package of studying and living in NYC.</p>
<p>If you were considering schools like Columbia, Penn, UVa, Dartmouth, Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern etc…, where you have an added benefit of a strong campus community, I would build an argument around the “invaluable” experience. But honestly, asking your parents to pay $220,000 over 4 years so that you can live in NYC and learn material that, quite frankly, you could learn almost anywhere, is hard to argue for.</p>
<p>Could you define for us exactly what you think the “experience” of studying and living in NYC would be? I’ve lived here all my life, and I suspect that there may be a major difference between what you think living in New York would be like and how it really is. While I can understand your reluctance to have your parents choose a career for you, I must say that, based on your post, you haven’t given a truly compelling argument for choosing Stern over a school in your country.</p>
<p>Do you feel that your parents OWE you a college education? It seems like they might be right about your maturity level from your reasons for wanting to go there.</p>
<p>I think Stern has much better access to the most coveted jobs in the financial industry, and has a stronger international presence than the local universities in my country. So many headquarters of financial entities are located in NYC - the opportunities and connections that I can make will be a lot more extensive. NUS (National University of Singapore) doesn’t ring a lot of bells internationally. Given a choice between a foreign degree holder and a local graduate, employers in Singapore would prefer the former for their exposure. Singaporeans still have a colonial hang-up.</p>
<p>Besides, Stern is a much more established business school with top tier academia and Nobel laureates - the research I can get access to would be of high quality. NYU would provide a more entrepreneurial experience by virtue of its prime location and political climate.</p>
<p>I’m not particularly keen on a campus experience; Greek life and frat parties don’t appeal to me. I like NYU’s spirit of independence and go-getter vibes. Besides all that, I guess I’m also experiencing wanderlust. It can get very stifling here.</p>
<p>I’m on your side that going to NYU Stern is worth it. However, it seems like this would have been a discussion with your parents before you ever applied and not now. They let you apply to schools in the US and now that you got in, they do not want you to go? I think you are onto something that maybe because your older sister went to college in the US and has not returned, that your parents fear that and maybe you can discuss their fears with them. Your rationale in #7 makes sense to me.</p>
<p>After reading your post, I must reluctantly concur with your parents on this one.</p>
<p>Your first paragraph demonstrates a cogent and concise reason for choosing NYU over your national university. However - and this may be the same feeling your parents are getting from you - it sounds from the last two paragraphs that the real reason you want Stern is that you think it would be glamorous to live and work in Manhattan. Nothing could be further from the truth.</p>
<p>If you’ve been reading the Wall Street Journal or the business section of the New York Times - which you should be doing, since you’re going to business school - you’ll know that New York’s financial services industry has taken a tremendous hit in the current recession. Thousands of jobs have been lost, and it’s unclear how many will be restored in the coming years. Not only will you not be guaranteed a job upon graduation, you might not even get an internship. That’s how bad it is here right now. </p>
<p>Visiting New York is not the same as living in New York. Manhattan is tough. It’s extremely expensive. It can be cold and impersonal. There is a major difference between being independent and belng alone. You will have to face the fact that, in certain instances, you will be alone, with no one to bail you out of your problems except you. This is why so many kids transfer out of NYU every year - they had an over-romanticized idea of Life in the Big City and were smacked in the face with reality when they got here. </p>
<p>Think long and hard about it. Personally, I’d wait for grad school to come here. Grad degrees from top schools hold greater sway in the job market than an undergrad degree.</p>
<p>tranquil…NYU or NYC are not for everyone. However, for many, it is a great school and a great city to be going to school in and where many contacts are made. Your reasons against this young woman not going to school in NYC are not more reasonable than her articulated reasons, particularly in post #7. </p>
<p>I don’t think she will be alone either. My kid started college at 16 at NYU coming from a rural town of 1700 people. She has never been alone. She loves NYU (is about to graduate) and the opportunities she has had at the school and in the city have been endless. </p>
<p>Further, Stern has an excellent reputation (my D is not in Stern). Who cares if this girl doesn’t get a job in NYC after graduation? She never said that was the goal. She is going to NYC to get an education and I do believe she WILL have chances through Stern to do internships.</p>
<p>By the way, her “wanderlust” comment was about going to college overseas vs. staying in her home country and it so happens she only has ONE American college as an option.</p>
<p>soozievt: When I applied to those schools, my parents never explicitly said no to the idea of me studying abroad, so I went ahead. It is only now that I realise that they are so hesitant about the entire idea. I tried discussing that fear, but they repeatedly denied it.</p>
<p>tranquil218: On the job front, the whole world has been affected by the recession. My brother recently graduated, and has yet to find employment. It’s not an exclusively New York thing. I’m aware that Manhattan is not all glitz and glamour. My sister lives in Manhattan, works in the banking industry and is facing/has faced all the troubles you described. A substantial reason why I chose the US, or more specifically, New York as a destination for an overseas education is because I know I will at least have some family there, since two aunts live in New Jersey too. I’ll have to face difficulties in life sooner or later anyway. Isn’t it better to learn now than later?</p>
<p>I’m just wondering how easy or difficult it’ll be for me to enter a prestigious grad school like Wharton armed with a local degree and a couple of years of experience working in a nondescript institution.</p>
<p>soozievt: Could you perhaps tell me a little more about the kinds of opportunities your child has had? I really need to know what would convince a parent. Would extolling the benefits of a Stern education be more beneficial, or reassuring my mum that sending me there would be the greatest gift she can give me? Logical or emotional persuasion? I guess my parents don’t see the virtues of city living. They prefer a slower-paced, predictable lifestyle.</p>
<p>I’m gonna side with soozievt on this one. You said your parents can “definitely” afford to send you to US. Stern is one of the top business schools in the country, a step behind the tippy top ones like Wharton or Columbia or maybe a half dozen others but still WAY ahead of most. PLUS it’s in Manhattan. Sure it can be a cold messy loud place, but young people like yourself generally love the place. My S has been there 3 years now and still it’s the greatest place on earth to him. I think that would make for a wonderful four years. Who knows where the world economy will be in 2013…eventually a Stern degree can take you places. </p>
<p>I do suspect your parents don’t want to ‘lose’ you, like they lost your sister. Can’t help you there. As a parent I understand that sentiment. I suspect your ace in the hole might be living near your sister, and the comfort that might bring to you parents.</p>
<p>re your last post, if I may: Without knowing your parents, it’s hard to advise on how to twist their arms. A little bit of both, I would say. Stern rep, plus benefits of city life. My S’s in the financial industry and the opportunities in NYC are unmatched anywhere else in the US for his specific field.</p>
<p>bloggergirl…definitely work your parents on the reasons for NYU/Stern, along with the location, but also that your sister will be there and your aunts are nearby. </p>
<p>I don’t really want to use your thread to discuss the opportunities my child has had in NYC and she is not in your field. She is a senior at NYU/Tisch. She has had many opportunties through the faculty (working professionals in her field) and her fellow students at Tisch and has made various connections in the city which is the heart of her career field (theater) like it is in the financial industry (your field). One example, today she is signing with an agent to represent her (a big plus in her line of work) and she was able to obtain an agent far more easily than if she had tried to do so on her own because she was in the Tisch Industry Showcase in which agents and casting directors attended and she got five agents who were interested in her from that one thing alone. I have multiple examples beyond this but that is just one as it is an example of something that transitions to her career life post graduation.</p>
<p>Soozie- Stern is not Tisch. A BS from Stern is not normally considered a terminal degree in the business world, unlike the BFA. Stern is not Wharton-- Bloggergirl will be competing against philosophy majors from Harvard and electrical engineers from MIT and linguistics majors from Columbia when she tries to get a job, unlike your D who will be competing against other professionally trained actors when she tries out.</p>
<p>Stern has a fine program, but do not confuse it with NYU’s MBA program, or with Wharton or Chicago or Stamford’s B-schools… it is not in that league. Moreover, the connections this student will make in an industry changing as rapidly as the banking/financial community is in NY right now are hardly a reason to go halfway around the world for a fine but not outstanding program. I just hired a guy who had his offer retracted by Bear Stearns last year when they went under. He invested two summers plus a term-time internship in “getting to know the movers and shakers” at a firm which no longer exists.</p>
<p>Soozie’s daughter’s experience is just not relevant to your case; Soozie’s D isn’t trying to compete with professionally trained performers coming out of the HS of Performing Arts, and you shouldn’t equate a BS from Stern with an MBA from a top school.</p>
<p>blossom, I completely agree that my D is in an entirely different field that the OP by far. Not comparing my D’s experiences at Tisch with Stern either (though tried to answer her question). A BFA is a terminal degree, yes, and Stern is not necessarily so. </p>
<p>However, Stern is a very good undergraduate business school. It is not an MBA no. But it is well regarded for the kind of degree that it is compared to other schools with that degree. </p>
<p>If she wants to go to school in the US, I don’t see what’s wrong with going to NYU/Stern. I agree that she will compete with philosophy majors from Harvard when she tries to get a job with a BS from Stern and am not saying the BS from Stern will be better. I am just saying that if she wants an undergrad school in business, NYU/Stern is a good one.</p>
<p>bloggergirl: You failed to mention in your original post that you had family living in the Tri-State area. That does make a difference, and I’m surprised that it wouldn’t put your parents’ minds more at ease.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I can’t support the view that Manhattan continues to be a land of unabashed opportunity in the financial sector. Not a single week has gone by in the past six months where I haven’t heard a story of a friend or acquaintance who’s been laid off from senior management positions in firms like Amex, MasterCard, JPMorganChase, and UBS. My cousin is a senior VP in Human Resources at a major international firm, and she’s told me that the downsizing in the industry is probably permanent, as companies learn to do more with less. As a result, the opportunities for contacts and internships that were plentiful a year ago are drying up fast. Since you said in your original post that a big part of your desire to come to Stern came from the contacts and internships you might acquire, I thought it was important for you to know that those opportunities may be much more limited than you think. Sadly, it seems to be hitting other areas as well - the guy who sold me my car is a recent Tisch graduate, so you never know what will happen.</p>
<p>This would be a good point for me to mention that her other options do not include philosophy at Harvard. Rather, they are NUS (National University of Singapore), NTU (Nanyang Technological University) and SMU (Singapore Management University). NUS and NTU have established undergraduate business and MBA programs, but the graduate programs, while commanding regional respect, are still a step back from Stern, and the undergraduate programs even more so. SMU historically has the highest job placement and starting salaries, but being the newest school (this year’s graduating class is the 6th) it has virtually no global recognition. Of all the three schools, only the rest of NUS’s academics is comparable to NYU’s, and even then it is quite a way behind in the humanities and social sciences.</p>
<p>If you believe the OP is overstating the value of a Stern degree to her future job prospects or her future MBA applications, I don’t think there’s a question of that. Even in Singapore, employers would rather get a Stern graduate if they’re going to get anyone at all. (Networking in Singapore is not an issue. We’re too small for that.)</p>
<p>I am more conservative when it comes to tuition. If money is not an issue, then NYU is a fine school. If it is not, I can not see you asking your parents to give you 200K for a dream. It is possible true that Stern has much better access to the most coveted jobs in the financial industry. Nevertheless you should not count on it as a foreign student. So many top MBA graduates are losing their jobs. They are willing to do anything to make a living. I honestly don’t think that companies are going to get those opportunities to foreign undergraduate students.</p>
<p>You also believe that Stern is a much more established business school with top tier academia and Nobel laureate. Thereby you can get access to high quality research. I am not sure that you will have the access as to Nobel Laureates as Stern students.</p>
<p>The financial market is not what used to be anymore. Many American students are skipping expensive colleges to go to state universities. If you really want to live in NYC but you or your parents think that NYU is too expensive, perhaps you should look into the poor man/woman alternative, Baruch College.</p>