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<p>Unz’s essay is heavily documented, and when he makes assumptions, he describes those assumptions in detail. You don’t have to consider him an authority to learn something from his essay.</p>
<p>We are coming from entirely different perspectives here.</p>
<ol>
<li> I do not think, having known plenty of ivy grads, that this is some special set of people.</li>
<li> I do not believe, having known plenty of people from all walks of life, including a high school drop out or two, that those who matriculate at an Ivy are somehow more brilliant, or should be more brilliant, than most other people.</li>
<li> I do not believe going to another university, or, for that matter, a trade school, is going to doom anyone to a mediocre income or a mediocre life, and I say this having known plenty of wildly successful people in my life, including a couple of high school drop out autodidacts and Ivy league educated plumber.</li>
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<p>So, we just don’t agree on the importance of these acceptances.</p>
<p>There is, however, evidence, and I posted this on another thread recently, and I’m not going to go back and look for the cites, that the ONLY people who actually benefit more from attending an Ivy than another top school are those who are either URMs or those who come from an impoverished background.</p>
<p>take care.</p>
<p>Bel - Heavily selectively documented. For heaven’s sake, he is supporting his stand, not speaking with ultimate authority. Stand back from it, for a moment, and see it. Try to understand how inflammatory works.</p>
<p>You cant include race because I am arguing that it shouldn’t be a factor- ie its the thing under discussion. Their shoe size is also out of their control but please dont include that in your list. </p>
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<p>NO they dont. There are 8 things listed by Princeton as being very important. EC’s arent one of them. I am arguing that is is ridiculous to ignore the thing you claim are important for other factors. Race is only under “Considered”. So how to you override four academic Very Important for one Considered? Only if you have a corrupt process. </p>
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<p>Relevant if you are the type of person that conflates a 4th generation Japanese American with a Cambodian immigrant. I suspect that they are pretty different people for anyone willing to look beyond skin color.</p>
<p>Harvard</p>
<p>Admitted by race vs final composition.</p>
<p>[2,032</a> admitted to Class of ?16 | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/03/2032-admitted-to-class-of-16/]2,032”>2,032 admitted to Class of ’16 – Harvard Gazette)</p>
<p>Minority representation remained strong. The admitted class is 20.7 percent Asian-American, 10.2 percent African-American, 11.2 percent Latino, 1.7 percent Native American, and .5 percent Native Hawaiian.</p>
<p>[Yielding</a> to an invitation | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/05/yielding-to-an-invitation/]Yielding”>Yielding to an invitation – Harvard Gazette)
African Americans make up 9.4 percent of the class, Asian Americans 22.6 percent, Latinos 9.3 percent, and Native Americans and Native Hawaiians 1.7 percent.</p>
<p>I remember last years numbers being 18.7 and almost 20 for Asians. </p>
<p>Should I be troubled that I know at least half a dozen Asians who turned down Harvard this year when there are so few who did turn them down?</p>
<p>Looks like the Asian yield is 89% vs 81% overall.</p>
<p>YES, YES, moms, dads and kids: They do have to do more than what’s on school grounds! They HAVE TO show they can do more than roll down the hall to the meeting room, when the afternoon bell rings. They have to do more than what boils down to hanging with friends. They have to see more than what is on the school roster of activities. And they have to engage, with responsibilities and impact. And more.</p>
<p>Fgs, this is not applying for a move to another high school, where your hs skill sets make you “all that.” This is a leap up to college-- and we’re talking “most competitives.”</p>
<p>Princeton or whoever DOES look at all those factors- not as a checklist. “Very important” does not mean one line is more predictable than another that is only labelled “considered.” The whole freaking CA is like a test or filter-- there is NO sense that you can blow a “considered” and eek by. They have thouands waiting to replace you.</p>
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<p>You keep on accusing the piece of being inflammatory; yet, I don’t see it. I am sincerely asking for an example. Why would Unz denounce his own heritage to make a point? And really, until there is another study to refute his points, why shouldn’t we believe his research?</p>
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<p>You are revealing more about yourself here and what you think than you are revealing about me or what I think.</p>
<p>I think that you are advocating for people to look only at GPA and test scores and to go down the line and admit based on a solely number basis. I don’t care if the make up of that group of people is racially diverse or not, they will all be the same type of person.</p>
<p>You don’t realize, when you talk about this, that there are artists, musicians, athletes, legacies, as well as those who score well. They aren’t looking for all top scorers. They are looking for a diversity of experience and talent as well as what you term skin color, and yes, ALSO skin color.</p>
<p>But not only.</p>
<p>“Princeton or whoever DOES look at all those factors- not as a checklist. “Very important” does not mean one line is more predictable than another that is only labelled “considered.” The whole freaking CA is like a test or filter-- there is NO sense that you can blow a “considered” and eek by.”</p>
<p>A metric that is list as “Very Important” must necessarily be given more weight than one which is “Considered”</p>
<p>and how do you “blow” Race?</p>
<p>Okay, I see: you believe that any measure OTHER than a test score or GPA is a “corrupt” measure of value.</p>
<p>Well, welcome to the real world, kid, where who you know is far more important than what you know, and where how you dress is far more important than what you have to say, half the time. </p>
<p>Good luck if you think that a measure of corruption in admissions is to admit those the school wants for its own sake and a measure of a lack of corruption is a list of tests a computer could take. Just good luck.</p>
<p>Texas, help me out. I see the freshman class is 22.6% Asian-Am (elsewhere says 21%) and seems to say the admitted Asian-Ams were 20.7.
The website shows 2076 admitted
So, 430 were admitted and 375 matriculated? If I am missing this, pls walk me through it.</p>
<p>You don’t get it. A metric that is “very important” is more important than one that is “considered.”
All categories are potential points of failure. The princeton candidate who has the rank, stats and rigor but incomplete ECs cannot trump the kid who also has grand ECs, reflecting the personal qualities adcoms seek.</p>
<p>And, that box for “character/pers qualities” IS marked very important- and does include how a kid’s energy, vision, follow-through and compassion come through on the Common App. And, how his perspective, maturtity, judgment and etc, come through in the short answers and essays.</p>
<p>It is holistic.</p>
<p>I wonder if the HYP defenders would agree to a resolution where in the Ivies go full-Hillsdale and no long receive Federal funding of any type if they are going to have a capricious racially discriminatory policy? </p>
<p>Is that an outcome of Fisher v UofT you would advocate?</p>
<p>LF - you are correct or somewhere in the neighborhood. I think I got 420 (2032) and 371 (81% yield).</p>
<p>My thought is that Harvard, et al, want a sampling of the top kids from every demographic/region/background/you name it imaginable for two reasons, a) it makes for a more vibrant and interesting campus, and b) more importantly, they know they cannot predict who among the students will end up being the most influential or leaders in their particular field someday. So, they hedge their bets and cast a wide net.</p>
<p>IMO, folks should be far more worried about the impact of seeking geographic diversity. Eg, the number of TJ kids who look super can impact other kids in NVA. </p>
<p>Number one thing to worry about? The quality of the CA. Kids make mistakes. The best shots, imo, go to kids who made it through 10th-12th with a variety of strengths, evidenced in all respects- and who do a bang-up self-presentation throughout the CA.</p>
<p>Gourmetmom I believe you are absolutely right. But some people simply don’t want to hear that no matter how often we say it, or, for that matter, how often HYP etc says it.</p>
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<p>Capricious perhaps, racially discriminatory, no.</p>
<p>HYP clearly discriminate on the basis of race; it is the capriciousness that is up for debate.</p>
<p>Ah capitalism: [Asian</a> Advantage College Consulting LLC](<a href=“http://asianadvantage.net/faq.html]Asian”>http://asianadvantage.net/faq.html)</p>
<p>“We are not “former Ivy League admissions officers” and thus haven’t participated in discriminatory practices against Asian-Americans”</p>
<p>I like this difference!</p>