Thankfully, I think the younger generation does not notice race (at least in our area). In fact, my son did not know the difference between an Asian person, a black person and a white person until I pointed it out to him in middle school. (That may be a bad example, because he is somewhat clueless. LOL). Call me an idealist, but I think it boils down to the fact that people should be seen as individuals and not be defined by their race. It is a good sign though when my kids and their friends make no notice of it.</p>
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That’s my question though. How would adcoms know whether someone hired a consultant to help put his package together to paint the desired picture?</p>
<p>By “etc”, do you mean the possibility that the white student population will fall to significantly lower than half, which could endanger fundraising?</p>
<p>I think OHMomof2’s question is would Asians themselves think that a school could be “too Asian?” I have heard some Asian kids say this about some schools, especially in California. I certainly know kids–including my daughter–who didn’t want to attend a college that was “too female.”</p>
<p>"If a man is married to a Jewish woman, it would be logical to conclude that he would not be biased <em>against</em> Jewish students. "</p>
<p>When I was a young lad (read no wife or kids since I hold them responsible for my aging), I was trying to get my H-1 converted to a status that allowed me to travel outside of the country. The usual route followed by people inside US was to get to a border consulate in Canada or Mexico. Indians had this gossip network that said go to this one consulate in Mexico because the consul general had an Indian wife and Indians would actually get coffee while they waited their turn for the interview.</p>
<p>I never found out because when I went there, the consul general was missing and I did not get my multiple entry visa nor the customary coffee reserved for Indians.</p>
<p>Bay I always enjoy reading your comments. But in #553 you state your support of “holistic” admissions-I really think the fundamental issue is holistic and quota based admissions. It inevitably ends up with what we have here which is race fighting race and religion fighting religion when a college makes the decision to admit based on other than academic reasons. The only group that isn’t fighting is white Christians and as a result its the group that is suffering in admissions.</p>
<p>For evidence to the contrary, see Tom Stoppard’s biography. </p>
<p>I had a friend in college, a girl I had a crush on for a while, but who did not like me back that way, in small part because she was fairly anti-Semitic, having been raised that way. She was smart enough and self-aware enough to be embarrassed about that, but it was pretty thoroughly woven into her upbringing. Years later, she found out that her mother was Jewish, and had eloped (while pregnant) with her non-Jewish father. Not only had her mother never said anything to her, but she learned that her maternal grandmother, with whom she had spent much time while growing up, had been told she would be barred from their house if she ever revealed this “secret” to her grandchildren.</p>
<p>“he younger generation does not notice race (at least in our area). my son did not know the difference between an Asian person, a black person and a white person until I pointed it out to him in middle school.”</p>
<p>I’m willing to bet that your kid is not black. I’m also willing to bet that black kids in your area (wherever it is) do indeed notice race. Not noticing it is a privilege. There are lots of places where whites don’t have to notice it; some places where Asians don’t, and others where they do. Black kids have to notice it pretty much everywhere.</p>
<p>If you were, or you knew, a black child raised in the USA who was unaware that people belong to different races until middle school, and who does not notice race in high school/college, I’m very interested to hear more about that.</p>
Don’t shoot the messenger, but I’ve heard some Asian kids say they didn’t want to go to a college that was “too Asian” because there was too much competition and grade-grubbing.</p>
<p>I hope you are not accusing me of not being sympathetic to the hardship that some blacks may face due to their race. If you want to make of point of saying that it is hard to be black in America, please do so without attacking our personal experience.</p>
<p>I am the first to admit that my kids are blessed. I also said that my kid is clueless so that is probably not a good indication of how soon a child would take notice of such things.</p>
<p>“The only group that isn’t fighting is white Christians and as a result its the group that is suffering in admissions.”</p>
<p>I tend to doubt it. The quest for geographic and political diversity should benefit this group. I also expect that many of them do not apply (especially from the south and midwest), but instead chose schools like Duke/Vandy/Emory in the south and ND/Mich/and all of the other good state publics in the midwest.</p>
<p>We’re a middle class white family so we don’t really have to “see race”. But I guarantee from personal experience with friends and family of different races that “not seeing race” is a luxury afforded to white kids only.</p>
<p>The homogenous school my kids attend is a big negative to me. We do have lots of AP classes and other great opportunities but the lack of diversity here has limited my kids, I know it has. I am glad when their extra curricular activities and our extended family experiences put them in contact with kids who do not share ALL the same experiences that they do.</p>
<p>S is in college and I am very happy when I see he now has friends from other races, religions and areas of the country. There are colleges he could have gone to that would more closely mirror his high school demographics and I am glad he didn’t choose one of those.</p>
<p>The fact is, kids from different races and religions and countries and areas of this country do have perspectives that differ in some ways, and they also are similar in a lot of ways. Having the opportunity to get to know these kids and learn what is shared and what is unique is an important part of the education I want for my kids. It’s perhaps my fault they didn’t get that in high school (we could live in an inner city or simply a more diverse area but do not for work and extended family reasons), but in college they have a chance to get some of what what they missed.</p>
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<p>No, by “etc” I meant Native American, Pacific Islander…any other URMs that might be harmed by a policy that favors high test scores only.</p>
<p>“I hope you are not accusing me of not being sympathetic to the hardship that some blacks may face due to their race.”</p>
<p>I’m suggesting that your statement that kids of this generation don’t notice race in your area didn’t take all the kids into account. If you meant to refer only to your own child, that wasn’t clear from your statement about “this generation.”</p>
<p>“You said that black kids “have” to, which is very different from simply doing so.”</p>
<p>Is it? If 100% of them do, then it looks to me like it isn’t a free choice. The white kids have a choice whether they want to notice it or not.</p>
<p>It’s not only that - my D is interested in engineering but it gives her pause to think of being one of relatively few women in her classes or college. If it were all about being able to date that situation would be ideal but it isn’t.</p>
<p>I’ve started a couple of threads on that for her, actually. A “too male” culture isn’t appealing to her. I suppose a “too female” culture wouldn’t be for a guy either, though research shows that it’s not appealing to women OR men, which is why most colleges try for a 50/50 balance if they can. without lowering standards too much.</p>
<p>Yes, and in fact that these Asian kids arent on here thanking us for saving us from such a fate just shows pure ingratitude on their part. We just have their best interest at heart in excluding them! </p>
<p>I’d say I’d be much more race blind if it weren’t for my parents making sure I wasn’t. But if you live in a society full of white kids like that, then the whole point is gone. We are just people, with different backgrounds, sure, and a disproportionate number of us poor because of events of the past, but in day-to-day interactions — people.</p>
<p>Just as you don’t see people incredibly conscious of the Irish and the non-Irish anymore, that’s how it’s becoming with race. The issue is just a lot more complicated because the problems that Black America faces are not just the psychological inclinations of those around us, but socioeconomic realities.</p>
<p>Interesting article discussing Unz and proposing an alternative admissions policy based on SAT/SAT subject tests and doing away with grades as part of the process. </p>