How corrupt are Ivy League admissions?

<p>Not to pick on Yale exclusively, here is the Harvard faculty listing in physics: [Harvard</a> Physics: Faculty](<a href=“http://www.physics.harvard.edu/people/faculty.html]Harvard”>http://www.physics.harvard.edu/people/faculty.html)</p>

<p>Does Yale have anyone who is Chinese-American or born in China on its faculty?
Harvard would appear to me to have four from this group, although their physics
faculty also seems to be a bit larger.</p>

<p>The under-representation of women in physics is very widespread.</p>

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<p>No, nobody would. And, to be honest, as I have said repeatedly on this thread, I really wish there would be an investigation into this, a case, whatnot. I believe all admissions should be test based. </p>

<p>As I outlined earlier in the day: </p>

<p>All admissions should be test based, stat based, top down.</p>

<p>The top scorers should go to school 1A, next group to 2B, and so on.</p>

<p>The universities should then be made to offer the exact number of seats preferred in any major by those with the scores.</p>

<p>Then, the next group goes on to 2B.</p>

<p>Nothing else should be considered. </p>

<p>Faculty should be hired and let go as majors arise and leave. Libraries should be turned into labs if necessary.</p>

<p>No, I think this whole push to have poets and artists and philosophers and musicians and dancers and athletes on campus is a waste of time. Too subjective.</p>

<p>Just the tests.</p>

<p>No test prep, either. Just plain old raw numbers.</p>

<p>This is I think the best way to manage a private university in the US. I’m for it.</p>

<p>If Asians are stereotyped as Math/Science geeks, which is why they are not sought after for Ivy League admission due to their Humanities bent, Why aren’t there many Math/Science faculty at the Ivy League? May be discrimination in both student admittance as well as faculty hiring?</p>

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<p>“Assimilation into the white race”?? Gosh, my Jewish ancestors were just as white as my Catholic ones.</p>

<p>If the under-representation of women in physics is widespread, and a college were to favor women applicants who expressed interest in physics, would that be “discrimination against men”?</p>

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<p>I suggest you all take a look at this.
After being read the above passage, several Caltechers (particularly the guy at 0:12) were highly skeptical of its veracity.
[Caltech</a> turtles - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA3VAauWpcg]Caltech”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA3VAauWpcg)</p>

<p>^ now we have nailed the problem. Women at 50% and hardly any at Yale teaching physics. There might be a lawsuit in there.</p>

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<p>You’re not making sense. It’s not that they are not “sought after for Ivy League admission due to a humanities bent.” It is that they disproportionately present with math/science interests, which means that they are de facto competing for the smaller spot of math/science spots versus the university as a whole.</p>

<p>As for why there aren’t more Asian math/science faculty members, maybe Asians are less likely to want to be faculty members at a university compared to other professions they might go into. I have no idea whether this is true, just making the comment that you can’t ascribe discrimination unless you know intent.</p>

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<p>I think a lawsuit should be brought. Immediately.</p>

<p>But, only if they have the test scores. Otherwise, don’t waste our time.</p>

<p>In all seriousness, these schools are going to have to open their opaque admissions to some outside observers. At this point, there have been too many asians involved in admissions to really believe these decisions are as easy as people are making them sound.</p>

<p>On the other hand, academic institutions of higher learning without the humanities are not sound. Nobody needs a better grounding in the humanities than a scientist. Nobody faces bigger ethical issues than a cutting edge researcher. </p>

<p>Just ask Oppenheimer.</p>

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<p>^I see what you’re getting at. So you’re saying we should give a boost for Asians interested in the humanities.</p>

<p>pizzagirl quote:

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<p>No discriminating fool will come and tell you my intent is to discriminate. It is hard to refute the stats regardless of whatever spin you want to put on.</p>

<p>I would have no problem if a boost was given to asian humanities students, as long as a boost was given to native american engineering students. Just sayin’. Fair is fair.</p>

<p>ETA:</p>

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<p>WHAT STATS?</p>

<p>We have actually refuted the stats quite easily on this thread. In fact, the numbers quoted earlier had nothing at all to do with the numbers from last year or this. So, what stats? Please elaborate.</p>

<p>Please read the earlier posts. Go to Ivy faculty pages and see how many Asian Americans are on the math/science faculty. The stats will stare at you.</p>

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<p>Sure, why not? That might be a very reasonable goal. Just like giving a boost to women interested in engineering. </p>

<p>Certainly you can see that even without explicit or bad / discriminatory intent, an adcom reviewing lots of similar Asian students with math/science credentials might have the “palate cleansed” by seeing an Asian student with strong humanities interests.</p>

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<p>we’ve been over the stats. The stats quoted earlier in the thread turned out to be incorrect, as I said earlier. What stats are YOU referring to?</p>

<p>I think the faculty at all institutions of higher learning is so skewed towards men, I have no interest in talking a lack of asians. The fact is that up until the early 90’s, asians, that monolithic group for the purpose of the CDS, made up just 2.5 percent of the population. I’m not sure how we get them up the ladder more quickly, but I’m sure there are plenty in the pipeline. </p>

<p>Lets see the junior faculty. Let’s pay our dues, as we women have been being told for decades.</p>

<p>If there is no discrimination as some of you make us believe, Ivys should release all the racial data in admissions. Why hide it? Are there any skeletons in the closet? If they collect the racial data on applications, they should be happy to release that data in admissions.</p>

<p>@poetgirl, if women are discriminated on the faculty, there are also few Asian men on the faculty. Now you would agree that Asian men are discriminated, right?</p>

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<p>As I have said, I think the process needs to be more transparent, but I do not think you can even start to talk about half the country as compared to 5% of the country with a serious face. I mean, really? </p>

<p>They should release the data, and they should release the areas of study each applicant wanted, as well, and they should release what area of the country they were from, and what high school they attended, and how many times each candidate took the SATs, and where their parents did or did not go to college, and what their ECs and awards were, and what their parent’s make for money. Heck, perhaps they should let us read the LORs of each applicant, as well, and maybe their essays, too. Fair is fair.</p>

<p>I do not honestly believe asians are more discriminated against in this process than, say, kids from the midwest, if that’s a category. But, I also have no problem with seeing the raw numbers. Just, it has to be ALL the raw numbers, not just SAT scores. So, I think it would be easier if a group of outside observers took a look, rather than release a whole bunch of really private information to the general populace. JMO</p>

<p>I’m all for full disclosure. :D</p>

<p>Here are the physics faculty at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign:
[Directory:</a> Faculty | Department of Physics at the U of I](<a href=“http://physics.illinois.edu/people/]Directory:”>People | Physics | UIUC)</p>

<p>and here are the grad students in the same department:
[Directory:</a> Graduate Students | Department of Physics at the U of I](<a href=“http://physics.illinois.edu/people/index.asp?q=&t=gs]Directory:”>http://physics.illinois.edu/people/index.asp?q=&t=gs)</p>

<p>The odd thing is that I suspect that the faculty and grad student lists at Illinois looked similar to this 20 or so years ago. There has been plenty of time for students to move into faculty positions.</p>

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<p>I am, too. But I think people would be really surprised by what they found. and, I’m guessing every single group is going to find a place they are being discriminated against in a process which is, by its very nature, about discriminatory processes.</p>

<p>I don’t think it will be what you think it will be, and I hope they choose to do it.</p>

<p>ETA: perhaps, quantmech, you should start class action suit against the publics? But, go for the faculty not admissions.</p>

<p>I feel that everyone is stereotyped or discriminated, even wealthy white men. I wanted to participate in one of MIT’s summer programs this year, but as I am male and white, I cannot, because all of them are either for women, minority races, or for poor kids.</p>