<p>Just wanna know how apparent Catholicism is in these schools. I have nothing against Catholics at all; heck, I'm Catholic and I go to a Catholic school.</p>
<p>I’m not a Catholic, and I felt very comfortable at my Jesuit university. If a student wished, he/she could have avoided all religious observances for the entire 4 years.</p>
<p>Since you’re Catholic, attend a Catholic school, and probably understand enough about what I’d talk about in answering the question, I’m going to give you a long answer–and one that you simply don’t see on CC very often. For reference, I applied to all of the schools on your list. I was waitlisted at Georgetown and Notre Dame and accepted at Boston College. I accepted a position on ND’s waitlist, but didn’t get in. I’ll be attending Santa Clara University in the fall, a Jesuit school. And I attended Catholic grade school, Jesuit high school, and I’m Catholic, although I don’t regularly attend weekend Mass (I prefer weekday student liturgies).</p>
<p>So anyway, we’re comparing apples and oranges here. They’re both fruits, but when you bite into them, they taste completely different.</p>
<p>Boston College and Georgetown are Jesuit schools, while Notre Dame is Holy Cross. The difference is not as small as you might think.</p>
<p>First, I’ll talk about Boston College and Georgetown, the Jesuits. They are both well-respected institutions, with a full range of academic programs, less engineering. As Jesuit institutions, a very large emphasis is placed on undergraduate education and teaching. You’ll get to know your professors well personally as well as professionally. </p>
<p>There’s a large emphasis on “Cura Personalis”–care for the whole person. Education for the whole person. Which means that a Jesuit education is remarkably holistic. You’ll learn about how to run a business, sure. But you’ll also learn applied ethics for that business practice. You’ll learn about chemistry. But you’ll also learn about what can be done to reduce the damage that oil spills have on native wildlife–or even on the economy. Jesuit education is totally unique in this way. </p>
<p>It’s inspiring. “Ite inflammate omnia” and AMDG–“ad majorem dei gloriam”–are the mantras, the first inspired by the words that Ignatius Loyola supposedly spoke to Francis Xavier before he set out to convert Asia to Catholicism. It means “go forth and set the world on fire.” The second means “all for the greater glory of God”–and that essentially means that everything you do should be done with a higher level of passion, a higher drive, a higher purpose. It doesn’t have to be religious, although it can be. And that’s literally what you’ll be pushed to do: find your passion, seize it, and then go out and use your passion to change the world. Seriously. Not that that drive doesn’t exist elsewhere, but again, Jesuit institutions are unique in the ways that they drive this home. You won’t notice it while you’re there–only once you’ve reached graduation. It’s so subtle that you can notice it if you want and ignore or not notice it otherwise.</p>
<p>Religiously, Jesuit institutions tend to be remarkably diverse. Sure, most students are Catholic, generally, but there is a wide array of beliefs–from practicing to practicing but doubting to non-practicing. And there many who take elements from other faiths, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. I know I do. I’ve met people of all different backgrounds, all different traditions, at the Jesuit institutions that I’ve visited and attended. Assume 50% are Catholic. Lower at Georgetown. But the rest range from Hindu to Muslim to Buddhist to Sikh to Native American to Judaism to mainline Protestantism to atheist. Their presence on-campus is actively supported with meetings, groups, services, etc. The Jesuits love alternative views. The same is true of ethnic diversity. There’s a huge range. </p>
<p>And there’s little chance that the Jesuits will try to force their idea of their religion on you–whether directly or indirectly. It’s there, but it’s slim. Super-slim. Grounded in the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius, which is essentially a thirty-day zen-like silent retreat, their spirituality is all about finding your calling and seizing it to find the “Magis”–the “more”. Which essentially means passion, but elevated. So yes, they will encourage you to consider the faith question. Be it through mandatory core classes, retreats, orientation programs, et cetera. But it will be through the lens of what’s best for you in YOUR eyes, not theirs. </p>
<p>Are students as into it as they are? Probably not. In fact, no, they aren’t. But that’s okay. Because they view Jesuit education as an instrument of faith, however non-religious or religious it may be. You may never enter a chapel or even see a cross, and they will say that they have succeeded, because they have educated you according to “Cura Personalis”–care for the whole person, something which they believe to be central to the faith.</p>
<h2>I probably make the Jesuits sound super-devout. Rest assured that they are not. I’m using the terms they use (i.e. AMDG, Cura Personalis, etc.), but you’ll probably never even hear them.</h2>
<p>Notre Dame is totally different. It’s impossible not to feel that you are entering what many consider to be a “sacred place” just in walking on-campus. There’s something about that Golden Dome, those segregated dorms and parietal system, that Grotto, that football fight song and tradition that just screams…religion. At least that’s how I think of it, looking back on my three or four visits there. Not that any of those things are bad–in fact, they are symbols of some of the University’s greatest strengths. But they certainly are different from the Jesuit schools, where religious symbols are more hidden and dorms are often co-ed by hall with male-male or female-female rooms.</p>
<p>All dorms are split by sex, randomly at the beginning of your ND career. Parietals are the intra-hall visitation hours. For example, all women must be out of the mens’ residence halls by a certain hour–2 AM on weekends.</p>
<p>The Grotto is a huge deal. It’s become an international destination, interestingly, thanks to Notre Dame’s name recognition. I’m sure you know about it. It’s a huge public prayer space, essentially, with hundreds to thousands of candles. The Shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes. You can certainly enjoy the Grotto even as a non-Catholic or even atheist, but if you are put off by large public displays of religion, this is definitely a specific area of campus to avoid.</p>
<p>The on-campus resident dining facilities, the South and North Dining Halls (SDH and NDH) are remarkably popular and superb. But they are the types of facilities that will refuse to serve meat on Fridays during Lent. Again, public displays of religion that don’t really happen at Jesuit schools.</p>
<p>80% of Notre Dame students are Catholic, which is a much larger percentage than the Jesuit schools. Sunday student liturgies are wildly popular, and I sense it would be awkward to not attend one. Each residence hall has a chapel and a rector. And at 10PM on Sundays, each residence hall has a mass. And they are usually filled to the brim. They’re not mandatory, but again, I sense it would be awkward to not attend. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Then there’s the Administration and the alumni. The alumni were actually the reason that I wasn’t so bummed that I didn’t get into Notre Dame. Example: ND’s administration invited Barack Obama to speak in 2009. Great! A backlash ensued from parents, staff, and alumni. All protesting the fact that President Obama is pro-choice, or to use the words of one protester, a “baby-killer” (this when he clearly isn’t an abortion doctor…). The alumni call for the President of the University to resign, calling him a “blight” on Notre Dame’s “proud history.” But he doesn’t speak out to condemn the protests that made the 2009 Commencement somewhat of a national joke. He lets it slide by. Personally, I think it was all fabricated in order to ALLOW/INTENTIONALLY CAUSE some protesting at Obama’s abortion stance. That’s just me though.</p>
<p>The Administration is not the kind that would allow a gay-straight alliance on-campus, out of fears that it would “conflict with Catholic teachings.” This despite the fact that most Jesuit institutions have one already and (apparently) GLBTQ individuals at ND are frequently mistreated. And you know, while I’m not gay, I have a problem with blatant disrespect/maltreatment of those who are. (I’m WAY too liberal to be Catholic…haha…)</p>
<p>They are content with manufacturing a controversy for political gain in the contraception “compromise” issue. They bow down to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. It’s pretty clear, at least to me, that they want to effect political change (i.e. “vote out Barack Obama; vote in Mitt Romney”) using their Notre Dame network. In many ways, they have skewed more evangelical with the USCCB in recent years. And it is a shame.</p>
<p>Now, of course, this doesn’t represent all students or staff/faculty. And don’t get me wrong. I absolutely LOVE the University of Notre Dame. It’s just that after four years of Jesuit education (the Jesuits are considered the liberal arm, in many ways, of the Catholic Church), it seemed to me to be a step backward. I don’t know about your situation. I advise you to look closely at what you want in an education. And in the reputation of your University. You can avoid religion almost entirely at any of those three schools. But you can’t avoid how your school makes news. Personally, I wouldn’t want my supposedly-Catholic school making news as the school protesting healthcare for millions more Americans under Obamacare. I’d want it making news as the school that sent millions of dollars and hundreds of students to…build water projects in El Salvador. But that’s just me. I don’t know about you.</p>
<p>Gtown, Holy Cross, and Boston College are all Jesuit schools which tend to be more liberal than some of the other Catholic orders.</p>
<p>Lol you have the exact same Catholic background as I do: Catholic grade school and Jesuit high school. I know exactly what you mean (and all the Latin phrases lol). The Jesuits are very open and accepting and love different views, especially at my school. We do have a good number of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants, atheists, and the like at our school.</p>
<p>About the news thing, yeah I feel the exact same way. Based on your description, I think Notre Dame is a bit too conservative for me (my local church is just as devout as ND, if not more). I think I’m gonna cross that off my perspective list. Thanks!</p>
<p>The schools are as “devout” as you want them to be. There are religious based activities (masses, retreats) available to those who are interested, but as long as you are respectful of religion, there should be no problem.</p>
<p>PROSPECTIVE list. Ah brain fart</p>
<p>Great post, Selkirks!</p>
<p>Indeed, selkirks, well done!</p>
<p>As a student at BC and as someone who knows several students & former professors at ND, selkirks nailed it.</p>
<p>I figured you might be another Jesuit school student. </p>
<p>It was an interesting thing for me where Notre Dame was the first school I visited. And I thought it was perfect. But then after a number of events, from ND’s contraception arguments to my school’s Ignatian retreats, I just felt like ND was not the right place for me. It just seemed too…heirarchical, provincial…all of the problems I have with the wider church. </p>
<p>Glad I could help. And if you want a west coast option, do consider Santa Clara.</p>
<p>I have known numerous family members and close friends who attended Notre Dame and based on their experiences, I would have to partially disagree with its characterization on this thread. One buddy is both a current student and hardcore atheist, but found the science department to be legitimate and scientific-minded. He found his niche. And he tells me the majority of the student population is liberal, with the conservative faction being mostly made up of libertarians as opposed to neo-cons.</p>
<p>He and I had the same background, Catholic middle school and Dominican Catholic HS.</p>
<p>Alternately, I attend one of the more stereotypically liberal universities in arguably the most liberal, “progressive-minded” city in the entire Midwestern United States, and have found a huge number of religious folk. Any sizable school is going to have some variety. Don’t be discouraged either way.</p>
<p>Thank you so much, selkirks.</p>
<p>aweseome post selkirks. The only nits that I have to offer is that BC is ~75% Catholic, while GU is ~50%.</p>
<p>And yes, all Jesuit schools are extremely welcoming. A neighbor’s D is Jewish (conservative) and just loved her time at Santa Clara U.</p>
<p>@Wiscongene:</p>
<p>It’s not about politics. Or academics. It’s about the social climate.</p>
<p>There’s just an atmosphere at Notre Dame that feels somewhat “stiff” or “closed.” I highly doubt that students there are any more liberal than the rest of South Bend, but I’m not a student, so I can’t say anything objectively. My issues had more to do with the Administration and Alumni and their unwillingness/un-receptiveness to change and new ideas, as well as the overbearing feeling of their tight control of campus. Sure, Administration appears to strongly desire to move in a new direction, but the allegiances that they have to the alumni (essentially, tradition) and to the USCCB seem to hold them back from ever making any bold moves toward reform.</p>
<p>Again, I’m just stating what I saw when I was there and how I’ve interpreted it in the time since. I still love Notre Dame; there’s no other place, for example, that I’d rather be on a Football Weekend. But it just wasn’t for me. It just seemed too hierarchical, “answering to authority”, “stiff”…I could go on.</p>
<p>For the right people, ND is amazing and great. That’s a definite. But everyone’s different; and one man’s paradise might be another’s nightmare.</p>