How did you justify paying for a reach over a financial safety?

<p>@Blossom and @Momzie‌, thanks for two clear expositions. </p>

<p>Two key changes. </p>

<ol>
<li> College costs (like health care costs) have risen faster than the rate of inflation for decades. So college (and grad school) cost much more relative to income than when we parents went to college.</li>
<li> The middle class in the US has nicer cars, washing machines, phones, etc. and has cell phones and computers that it didn’t have when the parents’ generation(s) on here were growing up/going to college. But, relatively speaking, middle class incomes have declined relative to the top 10%/1%/.1%. There is/will be a big difference between being in the very upper tiers than being in the middle going forward. My sense is that this trend will accelerate. Part of the concern about “prestige” and STEM is about giving our kids the chance to a) get on a good career track; and b) give them a chance to be in the upper tiers.</li>
</ol>

<p>One debate in these threads is whether prestige gets you anything. The answer is, of course, “It depends.” Per Blossom, Williams beats all other schools for art history, but also does an extremely strong job of getting kids admitted to top business and law schools (maybe med schools too). I have a friend who went to an HYP and then a top law school (top 1 or 2?). He said, “I often feel guilty that I went to my alma mater. I know that I have opportunities that other equally capable people didn’t get because of the school name on my resume. Granted, when I interviewed, I had to impress them and when I got the job, I had to do an excellent job. But, I had a better shot at getting the opportunity.” He worked as a lawyer and then the general counsel for a tech company that was acquired by a big tech company and he now no longer needs to work for annual income. He’s doing some interesting stuff, but no longer working for a salary. Incidentally, he met his wife at college and his daughter now attends (or maybe has graduated) so he doesn’t feel too guilty. </p>

<p>But, the advantages are probabilistic. You have a greater shot at getting certain opportunities. You have that greater shot because recruiters think that your prestigious school is a rich pool in which to fish. But that doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t do just as well in a less prestigious pool or that you won’t, by virtue of bad luck, bad choices, or failures to take advantage of opportunities that come because of being in that pool.</p>

<p>One additional point similar to @mathmom’s. I come from a tribe that has been kicked out of country after country over the last two millenia. Culturally, we have developed a love for learning and the belief that the best thing we can do is to give our kids an education that they can take with them wherever they chose to or are forced to go. So, in weighting the tradeoffs between investment in future education and our assets/retirement income, we would weigh investing in education more heavily than folks whose history doesn’t involve forced deportation or genocide. We would pay for the right grad schools (e.g. strong schools in good fields) for our kids when many wouldn’t because a) the financial tradeoff is probably less costly for us; and b) we value seeing the kids firmly established with degrees that afford them a life of reasonable options. But, there is nothing normative about this. We don’t think there is any reason others should see the tradeoffs in the same way. The tradeoffs may be much more financially costly for them. Or their parents didn’t pay for them to go to college and they project that history on their current choices just as I project my past history on to my current choices. </p>

<p>The future may not be like the past either for my family or for the folks who figure that it doesn’t really matter which school you go to or that their kids should pay for their own college espenses. The global economy is becoming extremely competitive. I suspect that we will have repeated economic shocks (what happens as quantitative easy goes away; what happens when China has its first recession, etc.) But the past is a big influence on how we make tradeoffs. We may make decisions based upon what happened in the past and not what is most likely going to happen in the future.</p>

<p>@Hunt, I don’t know about a Maserati, but last year was a particularly good year for me and my wife urged me to replace my 13 year-old car with a car I would love. I ended up spending $20K more than I probably would have for a car that drives magnificently. Bigger engine, sport suspension, sport seats, etc. Driving it is extremely gratifying. But, she’s been complaining because when I accelerate, she feels like she is being slammed back into her seat. Well, we’re in Western Mass for a family celebration and she took it to go to one of the museums out here and called to say, “I know why you love this car. Driving it is wonderful. I get it.” It is however a choice I wouldn’t have made earlier in my life. </p>

<p>My parents held off on kids until they were established in their careers so they would never have to short change us when it came to college. My older brother and I went to the best school we got into. Price didn’t come up once.</p>

<p>Lax…I thought YOU were still in high school. </p>

<p>Great post at 8:57am, @shawbridge‌ (and I enjoyed the next one too!).</p>

<p>Oh, how the cookie crumbles. </p>

<p>it’s almost june and I made my college decision 5 months ago.</p>

<p>Lax many people don’t have kids until they are older and established in their careers, including myself. Unfortunately price is an issue for us and it will come into play when my current junior selects a college. </p>

<p>Did the OP ever mention major? </p>

<p>Beware all - I believe laxripper is our ■■■■■ back again with yet another screen name.</p>

<p>^At least this time the name is a give away. </p>

<p>Shawbridge- profound post. Speaking as a first generation American, descendant of a family with many generations of forced emigrations/diasporas, I agree that the mantra that education is the only investment which lasts is inculcated at an early age. Our family would joke at gatherings about the property, businesses, real estate and “stuff” that had been left behind and how grateful we all were that our family patriarchs and matriarchs had been willing to start over with nothing.</p>

<p>So for sure, my cultural bias probably leads me to over-value education and any other investment in human capital more than someone with a different family history.</p>

<p>I love your line about the advantages being probabilistic. Agree 100%. Nothing can beat work ethic, curiosity, talent, the ability to work with all kinds of people. So if you don’t know if you’ll be successful passing that on to your kids- hey, at least they’ve got a degree from a college someone has heard from. Maybe a finger on the scale. Is it MORE important than work ethic? heck no. But a finger on the scale.</p>

<p>For the OP. Our initial criteria when looking at colleges were “high” freshman retention rate and “high” 4-year graduation rate within a reasonable commute… This is what our family valued. You can define “high” and “reasonable” any way you want. You would be surprised at the variety of rankings that you find with this criteria. </p>

<p>After this initial sort, we looked at programs offered, size and location(urban vs. rural) and class size. We then started visiting schools. My son didn’t like Cornell and Carnegie Mellon, so he didn’t apply to either. Both are VERY good schools, but not for my son. I honestly believe my son would have done well at many of the schools we investigated, but he is thriving at the school he ultimately attended. Absolutely worth the money, if you get what you value.</p>

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<p>Note that retention and graduation rates tend to be closely associated with selectivity levels, unless you are using retention and graduation rates relative to those expected for the selectivity level of the school.</p>

<p>Cornell and CMU are about a 5 hour drive apart – do you really mean to say that a 2.5 hour drive to school (if you live at the midpoint between these schools) is a reasonable commute for him to do every day?</p>

<p>ucbalumnus, I’m guessing bp0001 is referring to distance for the family to travel to a school from home when referring to “commute.”</p>

<p>Virginia has very good schools so many kids stay instate. Our local paper does a yearly spread on where the top students go. This year they listed 52 schools (both public and private). The very top students were going to UVa by a wide margin, followed by William and Mary, then Virginia Tech. In my kids’s high school, 4 of the 5 top seniors were going to UVa. Their school has had an occasional kid go to Harvard, Yale, Columbia recently but this year the top kids seem to be staying instate . There was a smattering of privates among all of these kids from all the local schools(a couple Columbia, a couple of Johns Hopkins, a Duke, a Penn,a Haverford, a Swarthmore, etc.), a couple kids going to service academies. But what surprised me is that I didn’t get a sense that following merit may have been big. For instance, I saw only one kid saying they were going to Alabama, one to Richmond which may or may not have been merit related. </p>

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<p>SES demographics of the area and financial aid policies at the state schools may have a lot to do with whether students are chasing merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Most aid in Virginia to Virginia kids is need based. I think there are many families , even if full pay for their state schools, that seem to be sending their kids to our state schools . Some going to privates that now give good need based aid.</p>

<p>And also some top kids from some of the schools that have a lower SES seem to be going to our local schools and probably commuting. My own kids’ public high school was a very diverse, city school with a bigger mix of incomes and more higher income people than some of the other schools within the city. </p>

<p>I am not in Northern Virginia though. I do think there may seem to be more of a push by more kids and their families to go to “elite” privates from there than from some other parts of Virginia.</p>

<p>It was not commute everyday. Our limit was I had to be able to get him home in a day in an emergency. This took us from U of Rochester to Duke. Others may have different limits.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus, that is why I put “high” in quotes. We wound up with slightly over 100 colleges within a six hour drive.</p>