How do admissions evaluate you? Respective to school or all applicants?

Applying to College
1

Im a student in CA
I have a 2300 SAT and a 3.6 GPA. I heard it should make me available to a couple of schools.
The problem is that my high school is extremely competitive (there are many 4.0s), so my GPA is actually at the low end for my school.
I will have finished 12 AP classes by the time I graduate, which is a little more than most at my school.

I was wondering HOW colleges admit students. Do they compare you to other students in your school (where someone like me would be below average) or do they not care how you rank there? Will the number of APs mean anything to admissions, and can they possibly trade off for my GPA?

Also, any recommendations for a school that doesn’t value GPA as much as a strong record for passion in an activity/extracurriculars?

I’m sure this may differ from college to college, so I’m just looking for a generic answer.
Thanks

And if this is in the wrong subform, sorry, I’m somewhat new to this site…

2

It seems like you need to start with a book, such as A is for Admissions.

Many college admissions are holistic, so that means they look at everything. But certainly gpa is a more important element than pretty much any other. So is rigor of program. Your SAT will help you anywhere and so will passion in EC’s. But yes, almost anywhere you are compared within your HS.

Since you are looking for generic answers, I will say that you should choose colleges that suit you no matter if they are off the beaten path, select your letter writers with care so you have ones who know you and will write good ones, and put your application together well, have a point of view to it, make the essays stand out.

3

How do colleges view ranking? Is it solely GPA, or does the course rigor play some role?

4

That’s not true for all schools. For instance the dominant admission factor for UTx is class rank. OP, look up the Common Data Set for your schools of interest. Section C7 will tell you what elements get different weights for admission.

5

At every info session we attended, I meant to ask that same question, but always forgot! It may be more regional than based on your particular school. For instance, I know five kids that got in ED from one high school and three got in from another. The high school with five admissions had at least 100 kids LESS in the graduating class than the one with three. Both top high schools in our region. But if anyone truly knows the answer, I would love to know.

6

Most AOs will read ALL the applications from a single school together. This way they can get a sense of all the kids at the same time.

So essentially you will be compared to everyone else from your school who applied.

Being at a top school and not at the top of your class can have somewhat of a negative effect on your chances. Just pick and choose which schools you apply to carefully.

7

Before I get this rolling, let me just say one thing. There will be people commenting on this thread that are in your fellow class that will attempt to put you down for their sake of ‘cutting down the competition’ because they would not like the idea of someone with a lower GPA getting into a better or their dream school instead of themselves with a higher GPA. Because according to those people, they are more hard working and/or academically stronger than people with a lower GPA.

Most schools are holistic-which means they look at you as a person, not a number and that there are many other factors that contribute to your final admission decision. CSU’s are not holistic. UCs say they are holistic, but as they are in a major budget crisis, the harsh truth is that, there is a seperate stack for Out-of-staters who can pay full price, so they are indeed prioritized; so say a student from California with straight A’s and a very high SAT score is competiting against someone else who has a 3.4 GPA but is from Oregon and can pay the full price of tuition (zero financial aid) - the kid from Oregon gets that spot. Note: an admissions officer for the UCs said this themselves. The only UC who is truly holstic is UC Berkeley because they are a top-tier school who wants people out of the ordinary. Then there is MIT, where they are holistic as well and more than favors people with a genuine passion for something. They aren’t about numbers - in fact, GP and SAT scores are the least considered factor in their admissions. Everyone who they accept can do the work. Everyone. MIT is difficult and that is why they want people who thrive on challenge.

For other schools, mostly all of them are holistic, so don’t let numbers constrain you. In the end, it’s you who gets accepted, not your stats.

In terms of how they compare - it most of the chance is with the whole pool of applicants - if they were to compare you to people in your school, then that one person, let’s say applies to Caltech would automatically get in since there is no one else to compare him too. So no, they look at you compared to the whole pool.

All I’m going to say for Harvard and to wrap things up is this - quoted by the Dean of Harvard - “Those at strong institutions with 4.0s could have been challenged but chose not too.”

8

Most schools are not holistic. Most selective schools are holistic. Most schools include CCs and regional schools which go primarily based on GPA and scores.

9

Since you are a CA resident - I’ll focus on the CA Public schools. Privates can set their own rules, though most don’t stray far from the UC criteria.

UCs - all of them - use the same application and criteria but tweak things a bit (like GPA cap).
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/how-applications-reviewed/index.html

They boil down to:
Did you take the requires a-g classes? (if no, you are out)
Academic GPA (they call it UC CPA which focuses on academic courses in grades 10-11 and is capped at 4 semesters of AP bonus credits. For good measure, they drop +/- as well. Easier than it sounds, use this calculator:
http://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/
Standardized Test Scores
Rigor of your academic courses
Performance relative to opportunity available
Special Talents/Skills and Achievements (this includes sports, class officers, clubs, eagle scout, etc)
Eligibility in Local Context (top 9% of your class)
Location of your school

  • to some degree your essay.
    The UC system says they weigh test scores and GPA at about 50% - truth is, it is probably closer to 80% in most cases. It takes an exceptional applicant to overcome sub-par GPA and test scores. Also, most value GPA over test scores.

You can use this page to see ave GPA and test scores for last year at all UCs here:
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/profiles/

In general,if your GPA and SAT are in-line with the average, you have a very good chance of gaining admission.

CSUs (not CalPoly SLO) us a much simpler formula.
They too put a brick wall up for students who didn’t complete the a-g course list with C or better.

CSU GPA * 800 + SAT (M&R) - there’s an ACT formula too. (Also some campuses use a different formula for STEM applicants) - notice there’s no place to put Eagle Scout, Class President, Captain of Football Team, etc in this formula. Also CSU GPA = UC GPA

So 3.5 GPA and 1200/1600 SAT give you an index of 4000.

That is it… CSUs simply stack up applications by Index and stop admitting when the seats are full.
Most CSUs set a lower threshold for local high school grads. SDSU (the most selective CSU using this method) is looking for about 4100 for out of area (but in state) applicants and probably 3500 for locals.

This method really clouds their admitted student data. A non-local applicant with ‘average’ GPA and SAT at CSULB or SDSU won’t gain admission.

A few other popular CSUs
Long Beach - 3850
Chico 3700
Fullerton 3700

CalPoly SLO uses a system of it’s own, kind of a hybrid. read all about it here:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cal-poly-san-luis-obispo/1671148-the-keys-to-the-kingdom-2.html
http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=statsp

I hope you found that useful.

10

GPA + course rigor go hand in hand. There’s not one factor that weighs outright over the others. Colleges look at a mixture of the two to get an idea of what type of student you are and how well you did in school. They will certainly look at the amount of AP’s you have but “trade-off” depends how low your unweighted (UW) GPA is. If you’re repping like a 3.8 UW, you’re fine. But if you’re at like a 3.4 or under, that may raise a red flag to some adcoms and they’ll think you won’t be able to handle college work if you can’t handle AP’s in high school. You seem very stressed about your GPA but I can’t tell if you’re only exaggerating because you’re at a competitive high school or if your GPA is ACTUALLY something to worry about.

You are slightly compared to other students in your school based off of GPA and course rigor. They’ll want to see how hard you and X worked. They will only compare you to get an idea of what the competition/rigor is like at your high school. Rank is a part of the admissions process but depending on the selectivity of the school, it’s not a huge deal.

From GPA + course rigor, we go into SAT/ACT testing. I know the standardized test score does not determine the worth of the student or the intelligence of the student; however, it is still important to get as high as you can. I don’t know what type of schools you’re looking at but anything uber selective will probably want a 2100+(1400+ Math and CR)/31+. However, if you’re not striving for HYMPS/JHU/Duke/etc., any score above a 1900+(1250+ Math and CR)/28+ will be fine.

After that, we go into essays, EC’s and other activities, and letters of recommendation. The GPA, course rigor, and standardized test scores show you as a student on a rather bland basis but here is where you can shine as a student! You can show what type of person you are and exhibit your passions and aspirations. The essays are the best place for you to showcase yourself creatively. EC’s show a college what you involve yourself as and determine your character/leadership abilities. LOR’s help colleges see how your teachers/supervisors/authority figures perceive you as a student and a person. They aren’t as large of a factor but they still are a factor. They help you but they can’t overshadow or excuse other parts of your application (poor GPA, low scores etc.)

11

Thanks you for the response. I’m certainly concerned with my GPA. It’s quite a bit lower than our school’s average, which I believe is 3.7-3.8
Do I still stand a chance at some good schools that aren’t so holistic?

12

Your SAT score is really impressive. Your GPA might hurt your chances but I think you will never know if you don’t try. Apply to schools that you will like to attend. Also apply to safety schools. Best of luck.

13

Isn’t that the whole purpose of weighted GPA’s?

14

@Cicidac you really have to talk more about what you are looking at or interested in. Of course you can get in a vast many colleges, but where are you interested in and what can you afford? No one know whether to talk about UCs, CSUs privates, ivies, LAC or places that might give you free tuition to snag you and your attractive SAT score. Like I said, there are entire books on ‘how admission works.’ If you get more specific, we can too.

I should have said gpa is significant, not the most important. For UCs it is fairly important. But you didn’t give your UC weighted gpa yet. If you look at college CDS, you can see how they rank the various criteria, it doesn’t tell you a whole lot but gives an idea of what is Very Important and what is just Considered. Some will mark gpa and test scores and class rigor as Very Important. But interestingly, Harvard just marks everything as Considered, which I take to mean if they see one element that is extraordinary, they will be interested.

If you are going to an uber competitive isn’t the GC give you any clues how admission works out at your school? Do you have Naviance?

15

You are a good candidate for all 23 of the CSUs. UCB, UCSD and UCLA are reaches but, the rest are viable. with your grades/test scores. Lots of CA private schools are also likely to grant you a slot with generous scholarships, i am thinking particularly of LMU, USD in so cal and probably Santa Clara up north.

Honestly, coming from a really competitive high school is a bit of a disadvantage - particularly at a UC. There are simply too many high schools for anyone to know if grades are inflated or deflated there.

You are a very well qualified applicant. I encourage you to apply broadly, include some schools like UCB and USC - but also include at least one you know you’ll make (maybe SDSU?)

I’d start with how far from home you want to go and what your family can afford. That will help narrow your search.

16

Thanks everyone. I suppose I was probably pretty stressed out over colleges. I suppose my GPA would hurt me a little, but after asking around a little, I just found out today that my school does not “rank” students. Would that make a difference to how I am evaluated relative to my classmates?

17

No, Many of the schools don’t rank and they know how to deal with that.

18

All colleges using the Common App agree to be holistic. Pick a few top private colleges and google “what we look for.” Read it over and over til you get it. Then look for more. Yes, you can be compared with others from your hs. In some cases, in your local area. But no, the full review process doesn’t only look at kids by school group. But you had better learn what it is that they look for and compare. It’s not all about stats.

19

If you are looking at Cal States and UC’s, they do not even consider rank so follow @lookingforward’s advice and check the common datasets for each school. Here is a link for UCB: http://opa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/uc_berkeley_cds_2014-15_april.pdf