A couple of schools have it listed on their website that a certain percentage of their pre med students get into med school, but I am having trouble finding that info for a number of the schools.
I can’t tell you where to find it, but I can tell you something about the data. You need to know if those stats are a percentage of FTF that started as pre-meds and ultimately got in, or only those who took the MCAT and applied to medical school.
The problem is all of the numbers you do find have to come with a health warning. School A may (correctly say that X% of our applicants get in but may have policies that passively or even actively discourage all but very strong students from applying. You might ferret out that School B has a much lower % of applicants who get in- but the school doesn’t vet who applies, and it could be that comparably qualified students from both A & B get into med school. In which case, if you steered your student to school A b/c of the superficially higher rate, your student could end up less likely to get into medical school, because they were ‘weeded out’ earlier in the process.
tl;dr- the % number isn’t a good indicator of your students likelihood of getting into med school- there are better metrics for picking good UG colleges for a student interested in med school.
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At colleges with a pre-med advising committee, the percentage of medical school applicants getting into medical school may be more of an indicator about what the threshold is for the pre-med advising committee to encourage the pre-med to apply to medical schools (which is an expensive, time consuming, and stressful process).
I.e. a higher admission rate may suggest that the pre-med advising committee encourages only the strongest pre-meds to apply and discourages (or even refuses a committee letter of recommendation to) others, but a lower admission rate may suggest that the pre-med committee encourages even those with marginal chances to apply.
Being advised not to apply because your chances are poor is not necessarily a bad thing, since it means avoiding an expensive, time consuming, and stressful process that will likely be futile, while giving more time to switch to other career directions. But while some students may prefer to know ahead of time to get off of the pre-med track without wasting a lot of time and money applying, others may prefer to take their chances even if their chances are low.
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As others have warned you, those stats can be “played”.
Many students show up at university first thing freshman year intending to be premed. Of the students who show up intending to be premed, most change their mind and never apply to any medical school. There are a wide variety of reasons why. The fact that premed classes are usually full of very strong students and are often graded harshly at many universities will discourage some students from staying on the premed path.
Usually the stats you see do not include the students who gave up on premed as an intention. This can skew the stats. I have heard that there are other ways to skew the stats that I am not as familiar with.
There is another form of skew. The students who start off as freshmen at MIT or Caltech or Harvard or Dartmouth College are not on average coming in with the same stats as an average student at U.Mass Amherst or Rutgers. The first set of schools probably do get a higher percentage of their premed freshmen into medical school. However, a major reason for this is because of the incoming students, not because of the university. If you took the entire incoming freshmen class at Dartmouth College and sent them to UNH instead, they would still have a higher rate of acceptance to medical school compared to the students who are starting at UNH. You might want to think about whether you personally have a better chance ending up as medical school if you arrive at MIT as a below average incoming student, or arrive at Rutgers as an above average incoming student.
There are many universities which have very strong premed programs. There are many universities where the premed classes will be full of students who are far stronger than you might expect.
A doctor that I know once told me that other students in their MD program had done their undergrad “all over the place”. The point is that you can be well prepared for medical school at many different universities.
Avoiding debt is however important. Medical school is expensive.
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This source suggests looking for colleges with strong prehealth advisors.
@WayOutWestMom can you perhaps tell this poster why this information isn’t so easy to find…
Another way of skewing the numbers is including Caribbean med schools. Those schools accept almost anyone who can pay. It’s important to know where recent grads have gone.
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RE: med school acceptance rates:
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As mentioned above, the percentage of successful students only includes those that actually apply. Since the vast majority of freshmen pre-meds will never apply to med school, the percentage doesn’t include those who have given up on the pre-med path. (BTW, it’s estimated that around 60-75% of freshmen pre-meds will opt out of pre-med before graduation.) Since pre-med is an intention and not a particular major, there is really no way to determine who is and isn’t a pre-med so you simply not going to find any data which includes pre-med who are still in the pre-application stage.
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Percentages only include those students the undergrad knows about. Schools that don’t use a pre-med committee to control applications rely on student self-reporting --which is notoriously unreliable–to determine how many students applied and how many are successful. Schools that do not offer committee letters typically don’t track applicant success rates.
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Colleges that use a health professions committee pre-screen students who wish to apply to medical school and only offer LORs to those highly likely to succeed–skewing their success rate upward. (Applying without a committee letter from a college that offers one places a red flag on the application–one the student must explain and one that seriously compromises a student chances for success.)
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Reported success rates may or may not include alumni applicants. Most undergrads include alumni applicants in their data. Alumni can typically be included for up to 5-8 years post graduation. Alumni are included even if they have completed post-graduate work (GPA enhancement coursework) or graduate degrees at another institution.
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There is no consistency about what a “medical school” is in the data. Some undergrad programs only count MD applicants. Others include both MD and DO applicants. Still other include successful applicants to any physician training program, including medical schools outside of the US. (e.g. Caribbean med schools which have as their primary admission requirements a pulse and a checkbook) And still others include ANY health-related graduate program–MD, DO, DPsy, DPT, OTD, DAud, APRN/DNP, MPAS, etc. Some even include veterinary school!–in the success rate.
tl;dr-- there are so many, many ways to manipulate this information that any numbers/percentages touted by a particular college should be taken with a truckload of salt.
P.S. The quality of health profession advising is very hit and miss–even at schools known for their pre med programs. For example, d2 attended a NE university well known for its pre-med program. But she wanted to return to the West/Southwest for med school. The advising office was pretty much useless since the advisors were not familiar with western med schools (or southern or midwestern med schools for that matter)and were unable to offer her much beyond generic advice when she was preparing her application. She got better, more tailored/useful advice from her older sister (who was already in med school) and from her mother.
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In your other thread, you mention that finances are a concern.
My advice to all pre-meds and their parents is to take pre-med out of the equation when looking at schools. Instead concentrate on:
Fit–because happier students do better academically
Opportunity–including the opportunity to explore coursework and majors that may lead the student away from medicine. (Plus since 60% of med school applicants fail to gain an admission, every pre-med needs to have a strong Plan B career option.) Opportunity also includes the opportunity to develop mentoring relationships with her professors to get the LORs she’ll need to support a medical or graduate school application or for internships and jobs. Opportunity to get involved with on and off campus activities. (Med schools are looking for well rounded individuals with interests outside of science & medicine, who can communicate comfortably with a wide range of individuals from diverse backgrounds/ethnicities/ages, and who have demonstrated the qualities that make a good physician–compassion, altruism, leadership, cultural competency…)
Cost–because med school is hideously expensive (think $250-500K) and there is precious little aid except for loans, loans and more loans. Pre-meds are strongly advised to minimize their undergrad debt.
Pre med isn’t so much about where one goes for undergrad, but what one does during undergrad.
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This is very helpful! Thank you!!!
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That’s because medical school admission has nothing to do with the school you go to. You’re not going to get anything accurate from these school, or at least information you can trust. Medical school admission lies squarely on the student. If you have competitive grades and MCAT scores, you get in. If your grades and scores aren’t competitive, you won’t. It’s that simple.
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Just in case anyone is reading, it’s not that simple. Over 10% of candidates with top grades and MCAT scores don’t make it in every cycle. ECs and personalities count a ton too.
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Agree it is not that simple. While grades and MCATs are critical, the school matters to some extent. While the quality of education is often reflected in the MCAT scores, there has to be difference between a top GPA from a top college and a top GPA from an unranked school. That is not to say that a top student from a less well regarded college can’t get into medical school, especially if they have great ECs and a great story, but it is certainly more challenging.
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Actually the difference isn’t “top gpa from top college”, v. “top gpa from unranked college” but rather depth of commitment to undeserved communities and hours in contact with patients, activities showing initiative, leadership, empathy, etc, etc. And anything that can help distinguish a candidate.
Colleges that have a lot of resources, a lower student:factor ratio, personalized advising, no grade deflation, a collaborative culture, interesting peers, partnerships with hospitals or medical centers, money to support unpaid summer internships… will matter, but these can be found at different levels of selectivity.
If you choose a lower ranked university*, though, look into the university 's funding, number of peers, opportunities for honors students. Universities where your peers are significantly lower performing, funding is lacking, and the Honors college is very small may not be the best choice.
@creekland @WayOutWestMom may have other opinions as they’ve been through it and know quite a few applicants.
*lower than, say, 125 national university/LAC, 20-25 regional university.
Ask @WayOutWestMom just how true that is or isn’t…
there has to be difference between a top GPA from a top college and a top GPA from an unranked school.
There may be a minor difference in how a top GPA from a top school and how a top GPA from unranked school is perceived. But the difference pales beside the other factors that going into making an admission decision. No admission decision is made in a vacuum and no adcomm member is going be unduly impressed or put off by the name of the school that appears in the applicant’s diploma.
Plus there’s a saying in med school admissions that the MCAT is the great equalizer. (Meaning a good MCAT score will eliminate any adcomm concerns about the quality of the undergrad education from an unranked school)
But GPA and MCAT only goes so far. It only prevents an application from being automatically cut from consideration. It’s the “everything else” --ECs (meaningful clinical exposure, community service with disadvantaged populations, demonstrated leadership), personal statements, secondary essays, fit with the stated mission of the medical school, LOR quality–that turns an applicant into someone a school wants to interview/admit.
And I would say that based on my family’s experience with med school applications and my observations over the years that even schools below the top 125 are fine. My state flagship U-- typically rankedby USNews between 175-200 has sent students to some of the most august and competitive med schools in the US. (I personally know 2 young women who were accepted MD/PhD at WashU from the state U. Plus others accepted to Stanford, UCLA, USC-Keck, Vanderbilt, Duke, JHU…)
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I do not disagree that many things go into Med School results and that a great MCAT score is critical. I also know a number of kids that have been successful from undergraduate schools that are far from the top 20. However, from schools that offer a solid education and opportunities for research and support and guidance for pre-med undergrads.
I just get concerned when kids are told it doesn’t matter where you go undergrad if you want to go to medical school. A certain level of instruction is needed to prepare for the MCATs. If the coursework is subpar, it is going to be much more difficult to do well without a lot of outside work. A state flagship, even ranked 200, is going to have that level of instruction. A unranked directional state college may not, even if the student can go for free. That is not the scenario for most CC students, but there should be some nuance in such a statement, at least in MHO.
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