<p>For example, I know someone who go into Harvard and is doing extremely bad. However, in HS she was the all-star student and never procrastinated, very smart and took the initiative. . .what happens with these really bright students who end up at the bottom of their class or flunk out?</p>
<p>20% of the class at Harvard or anywhere else has to be in the bottom quintile. The question is whether they can be happy there. (the number of flunk-outs at any of the prestige schools is TINY, because they work to ensure it doesn't happen as it would reflect badly on their prestige.)</p>
<p>Oh, and what happens to them? They might end up heading major multinational corporations and hiring (and firing) their better-performing colleagues.</p>
<p>Sometimes the students are simply burned out. In other cases, the lack of structure and personal freedom that college presents are too much for the student. They skip classes, sleep late, party too much and wind up with bad grades. Also, many college classes have the entire grade decided by a single exam or paper, with very little "check-ins" or accountability during the term. Other classes are taught by TAs who speak limited English or are so boring that the students don't attend the class. There can be a lot of catch-up to be done before the final. I know a number of students who do poorly in college math and science courses, despite doing well in high school. The pace is a lot faster.</p>
<p>Well, by definition, somebody has to be at the bottom of the class, even if the entire class is full of geniuses. And the school is not (I hope) going to give everyone As just for having been smart enough to get into the school, even though at a less selective school those middling or low-ranked students might have been at the top of the class.</p>
<p>The reasons that a particular student is doing poorly can vary. Maybe her high school didn't prepare her well for the standards of a top college. Maybe the freedom went to her head. Maybe she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life and is floundering as a result. Maybe she's burned out. Maybe she's preoccupied with distractions and not studying enough. Maybe she's homesick and it's affecting her performance.</p>
<p>They get hit fully in the face with the reality that everyone else there is just as smart as they are and it crushes their ego and propped-up confidence...either that or they get away from home and find the freedom intoxicating, slack off and do poorly...she could have just made a poor choice based on fit and is miserable. I'm sure there are number of reasons why that could happen. Of course I'm being somewhat facetioius but I have seen kids not be able to handle being a little fish in a vast ocean when they were accustomed to being the whale in the punch bowl. Just my humble opinion...</p>
<p>As Mini said, some students have to be at the bottom of their class.
That said, some students choose poorly, take on more classes than they should, or more challenging classes than they should. They also may lack the self-discipline to study steadily and do not have the support of having parents to remind them of homework, or the pressure to turn in homework regularly. They underestimate the amount of time it will take to research and write a paper (let alone several due in short order). They skip classes because attendance is not taken; they do not ask for help when they need it because they are too shy or too proud.They encounter an obstacle early on and don't know how to catch up.
There are many reasons why they don't do well. But it's also a matter of perspective.
Someone who got all As in high school may be dismayed by their first Bs or B+s. It's not failing. It's being measured against one's true peers.</p>
<p>As mini said, these schools work very hard to keep full-out failure from happening. So the number of flunkouts is small, but the number of "dean's vacations" is greater than many people realize.</p>
<p>Self-discipline is - as others have already posted - usually the biggest problem. And most kids who falter because of that get the support they need to get back on track.</p>
<p>There are some small few who applied more to see if they could get in, than because they knew it was the place for them, and then listened too hard to those who told them they had to go there, "just because it's _______," when a different kind of school would have been a better fit.</p>
<p>Maybe they are busy inventing the next big thing in computer applications, making a fortune on the futures market, or doing the same by dealing drugs, all of which require a huge amount of discipline. </p>
<p>"but the number of "dean's vacations" is greater than many people realize."</p>
<p>They all publish four-year graduation rates. I think it is likely smaller than some people might expect. (If academic challenge was a student's top priority, she might be at Reed rather than any of the Ivies. But, even at Reed, the math remains the same.)</p>
<p>Hit by the freshman blues, maybe?</p>
<p>Most colleges maintain that if you are accepted you will be able to handle the academic too. As has been stated above, students who do poorly find themselves in that position, not necessarily because they lack the intelligence, but for myriad other reasons. And for those who do poorly at the likes of Harvard, they would probably find themselves in the same situation at colleges further down on the admission selectivity pecking order.</p>
<p>Harvard students are as susceptible as anyone else to medical or family crises that keep academics from being a priority. I know a student whose family basically disowned him during freshman year. It took him several years of struggle to get back to a place where he could be focused on schoolwork again. In the meantime, he had some very bad semesters and periods of time away from school.</p>
<p><a href="the%20number%20of%20flunk-outs%20at%20any%20of%20the%20prestige%20schools%20is%20TINY,%20because%20they%20work%20to%20ensure%20it%20doesn't%20happen%20as%20it%20would%20reflect%20badly%20on%20their%20prestige.">quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, our experience was not a flunk out, but it veered in that direction. And for us, this quote was absolutely untrue. They could not have cared less.</p>
<p>(and as to the question of how or why: a combination of undiagnosed bad fit, personal roadblocks, and burnout).</p>
<p>Everyone is dancing around a common scenario: binge drinking freshman year. The evidence is clear. Drinking like Otis the Town Drunk has a negative impact on students' academic performance and strongly correlates with academic and behavioral problems.</p>
<p>Why do we dance around the #1 problem on college campuses? Because nobody -- and by nobody, I mean students, parents, college administrators -- wants to acknowledge the negative impact and have to actually do something about it.</p>
<p>I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of kids being asked to leave colleges have stories that start with the usual, "Well, first I got really, really drunk...."</p>
<p>interesteddad, um, no. You may be willing to bet whatever you like, but I for one am not dancing around anything. I don't want to speak for anybody else, but I certainly don't read their posts that way, either.</p>
<p>I think people have stated very clearly most of the reasons that kids at top colleges flounder. MomofWildChild specifically included "party too much" as one of the possibilities. </p>
<p>It's one among several. </p>
<p>And please don't come back with something to the effect of "HarrietMWelsch may think binge drinking is not a problem. . . ." That's not what I'm saying.</p>
<p>InterestedDad, Give it a rest.</p>
<p>The majority of heavy college drinkers (possibly the majority of college students...) do just fine academically. For every college drinker who bombs their freshman year, there are probably 5 heavier drinkers who do very well.</p>
<p>I never thought I would be tempted to use the "ignore" button on this forum, but I'm getting close.</p>
<p>Well, Otis the Town Drunk, who finished as a bottom 10%er, may actually be the head of that multinational corporation (AND an alcoholic to boot - they are not contradictory).</p>
<p>The A and B students work for the C students. School grades have little to do wtih future success.</p>
<p>In our case, Interesteddad, that was not one iota of the problem. But that doesn't fit your scenario, so I have no doubt you will be sure that I am wrong.</p>
<p>In my case, it has nothing to do with partying. (I didn't have money to drink!) I wasn't at a top school, either -- couldn't afford Duke, even with FA.</p>
<p>1) I found out the day I was dropped off at school I would be responsible for paying for my entire education. I had to go into immediate survival mode, working minimum wage jobs on campus and scraping by on almost nothing. (I had an external scholarship I got adjusted to be paid over the first two quarters that gave me time to get on my feet.) I was at a school that did not have students who were paying their own way; there was little institutional or faculty support.
2) I had to learn how to study -- but not because the material was hard. Classes required a different approach than anything else I'd taken in HS (and I had taken many independent study courses, so I knew how to manage my time).
3) The significant lack of support from friends and family. I felt terribly, terribly isolated. Found out the hard way that my family was not as happy and functional as I had thought.
4) All of the above triggered what was probably some situational depression.</p>
<p>I've learned from others' experiences here that I was not nearly as alone as I believed. However, as a first-gen college student, I did not know the ropes, did not know I could ask for help, was afraid to ask, and was terribly naive in general. Being afraid to ask for help was probably the single biggest issue. Everything else could have been more tolerable had I been able to do that.</p>
<p>So, seniors and students who are reading this -- don't be afraid to ask for assistance. Please.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Compared to non-binge drinkers, frequent bingers are 17 times more likely to miss a class, ten times more likely to vandalize property, and eight times more likely to get hurt or injured as a result of their drinking. Binge drinking also contributes to poor academic performance and college dropout rates.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Miss a class
Non binge drinkers: 8.8%
Occasional binge drinkers: 32.9%
Frequent binge drinkers: 62.5% </p>
<p>Get behind in schoolwork
Non binge drinkers: 9.8%
Occasional binge drinkers: 26.0%
Frequent binge drinkers: 46.3% </p>
<p>Get in trouble with campus or local police
Non binge drinkers: 1.4%
Occasional binge drinkers: 5.2%
Frequent binge drinkers: 12.7% </p>
<p>Euphemisms like "party too much" blunt the reality. College drunks run into problems across the board at much, much higher rates than students who don't drink or drink moderately (non binge drinkers) or even students who drink heavily no more than once per week (occasional binge drinkers).</p>