<p>I think there's another common scenario that hasn't been mentioned yet--the kid who gets involved on campus in ECs and who focuses so much on those that (s)he pays no attention to the academics until it's midterm or final time and then discover (s)he has a problem. </p>
<p>What do I mean? The kid who joins a frat...and not only spends a lot of time on rush and pledging, but wants to do all he can to become prez of his rush class or an officer in the frat, etc. The kid who goes to Harvard and spends 24/7 at the Kennedy Institute of Politics. (Those no credit courses can take up scads of time, very easily. ) The kid who joins the campus newspaper staff and spends all his/her time working on assignments. The want to be actor who tries out for and accepts roles in multiple performances, missing classes for rehearsals and using study time to learn the lines for 4 productions. I actually know one young woman who did fine first year, but basically flunked out second year because she was spending 60-70 hours a week on community service. </p>
<p>There's just so much stuff to DO at top colleges. And some frosh dive right in--joining the newspaper, model UN, College Democrats, the college radio station, programs tutoring elementary and high school students, running for freshman class council, etc. I mean they try to do ALL of these. And may actually do all of them until midterms, when panic sets in.</p>
<p>But even at that point, they may feel they CAN"T give up the ECs and still try to do too much. </p>
<p>Another reason...romance. The Turkey drop can hurt. The kids who fall in love for the first time can forget about everything else for a while too.</p>
<p>ID: No one's disputing that. It doesn't answer the question asked, though, but a different one. And, Harvard's not the only school around, you know. </p>
<p>Anyway, my point was, first, that I disagree that top schools uniformly give a dang when a student hits trouble. Some do, some don't. We bought into that scenario, and we were wrong.</p>
<p>My second point was that a studious, strong student can flounder for personal reasons, bad fit, and burnout founded in the first two.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are other scenarios, of course.</p>
<p>jonri- That's an excellent point. One of D's prior boyfriends at Rice got so involved in theater productions that he really let his academics slide. He made it through, but barely. He did not party excessively and was certainly bright enough (although very disorganized), but all his time was spent on theater and music. Unfortunately, he was a science major!</p>
<p>There are many scenarios. However, if you total up all the potential "at risk" correlations, I bet they don't equal the 44% of students who binge drink at the average college or university.</p>
<p>Binge drinking is so strongly correlated with academic and disciplinary problems and so many students binge drink, that this has to be the first issue considered when asking how a successful high school student can bomb out of college.</p>
<p>In other words, if you have a student that is in academic trouble that has problems x, y, and z plus is drinking like the town drunk two or three times a week, the first thing you have to address to salvage college is the routine drunkenness. As a parent, if I find out that Biffy or Buffy is headed towards flunking out freshmen year, the first thing I want to rule out on the "decision tree" is routine binge drinking. Trying to improve study habits or get mentoring resources or whatever else might be available is an exercise in futility if the student is drunk all the time.</p>
<p>Drinking and partying probably* is *a common cause. There are also a number of mental illnesses like schizophrenia that may not hit you until your late teens or early 20s. I've known some kids adversely affected by anorexia or bulimia as well. I've also known of cases where people took courses that they weren't suited for (difficult languages, a math course over their heads) who have gotten behind, panicked and not withdrawn from the courses when they should have.</p>
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Anyway, my point was, first, that I disagree that top schools uniformly give a dang when a student hits trouble. Some do, some don't. We bought into that scenario, and we were wrong.
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<p>I think it depends on the school. Some simply don't have the infrastructure to care. Others care and have the support resources and just miss some kids falling through the cracks. I think you raise an important point. One thing parents can do is familiarize themselves with support functions available at the school and, in conversations ahead of time, make sure their kids know the resources and that the resources are there to be used. Mentoring, tutoring, counseling, etc.</p>
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My second point was that a studious, strong student can flounder for personal reasons, bad fit, and burnout founded in the first two.
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<p>No question. A lot of these schools are really, really hard. What worked in high school won't work in college. Students have to learn to pick courses that work for them, put some balance in their schedules (i.e. don't take four reading intensive courses at the same time) and develop some discipline in study habits (like going to the library after dinner every night as a matter of routine.</p>
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I've also known of cases where people took courses that they weren't suited for (difficult languages, a math course over their heads) who have gotten behind, panicked and not withdrawn from the courses when they should have.
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<p>That's an important point and one that warrants a casual dinner-time conversation before departure freshman year. I was an idiot and signed up for an extra fifth course first semester freshman year including a math course that was a bit over my head and a conversational language course that was way over my head. I did fine (except for the language course where I had no prayer and got my one and only C), but it was just stupid, stupid, stupid and probably soured me on the "joy of learning". Kids need to use first semester to get their feet on the ground and size up where they stand. There's no need to pick courses like you are shootin' for the Guinness Book of World Records. My advice on both math and language courses: "do not let them sucker you into courses that are over your head". It's nuts to set yourself up for misery.</p>
<p>ID, yeah, (to post 27) but it can get more complicated. Without going into specifics, what worked in the first two years (3.5+ GPA) stopped working the second two. that's why it's hard to quantify, and why I used words like "undiagnosed bad fit" and "burnout." A kid can be able to to the work, then for many reasons, not do it.</p>
<p>I do believe in our particular case, and I mean this as a *particular *case and not a universal, that this particular kid should've gone to an LAC like his sister did, where the support systems would have been more apparent and pro-active. We truly thought they would kick in automatically (that vaunted "Ivies make sure you don't drop out" line), but they didn't. D says that at her LAC, when a friend of hers lost focus the same way S did, the system went into overdrive to make sure she got through. In hindsight, I wish he'd gone there instead. (Again, not a knock on U's--my H and I went to a big, very good state U, but for S, a smaller place woulda been better.)</p>
<p>I think one component could be, even with top HS students, that our national fascination with standardized testing (no child left behind) these past 8 years has led to schools teaching kids how to excel at multiple choice tests and how to get A's versus encouraging critical thinking and analytical skills. Some kids in high school manage to get a lot of points towards their grades by turning in daily busywork assignments, getting extra credit for bringing in kleenex or other supplies to class, and similar activities that do not necessarily prepare them for college work. Hence the 4.0 student who is, as two have told me, are not as prepared for college level classes/writing as their HS gpa might indicate. Many collegiate grades are dependent on a student being able to independently read and analyze material that will be on the final, but isn't necessarily covered in class. In other words, college requires students to be self motivated learners who can push themselves to excel, despite the drinking and other challenges that await freshmen their first year of college. I also think that kids fall down when their helicopter parents (and, yes, some of my friends might describe me as one, so do not take offense!) are not helping them organize their lives on a daily basis. And, it could boil down to things as simple as a freshman taking 8:00 am classes at a time when their metabolical time clock is keeping them awake until the wee hours of the morning. In summary, a lack of real preparedness, combined with learning to live independently and all of the accompanying hazards, leads to some high school valedictorians not doing as well in college as they did in HS. And, every kid has a different situation so it is impossible to generalize (as I just did above!).</p>
<p>
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ID, yeah, (to post 27) but it can get more complicated. Without going into specifics, what worked in the first two years (3.5+ GPA) stopped working the second two. that's why it's hard to quantify, and why I used words like "undiagnosed bad fit" and "burnout." A kid can be able to to the work, then for many reasons, not do it.
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<p>Yeah. That's a different issue. I don't think it's that uncommon, either. It's really what "sophmore slump" is getting at. By the end of sophmore year, college becomes a bit of a grind, but the students aren't close enough to see the end-point. It's not new anymore. It's hard. It may be at the cross-over point where external motivation has run its course and internal motivation (joy of learning) hasn't quite kicked in....</p>
<p>Study abroad first semester junior year can be an effective cure! New. Adventure. And, by the time the student comes home, the runway is visible in the distance and he is on a glide path to graduation.</p>
<p>When she came home after exam week at the end of sophmore year was the only time in four years my daughter said she was ready for a break. I can see how that could easily cross the line into trouble. It did for a couple of students she knew that took some TLC from the Deans to keep 'em going.</p>
<p>Personally, I would have been described as a "frequent binge drinker" my first year of college, and in between my frequent binges I often had a few drinks. I inhaled sometimes, too. I know it hurt my academic performance, but not so that anyone could tell; I won academic prizes.</p>
<p>On the other hand, some kind of substance abuse was a factor in most (not all) of the serious academic problems I saw, although sometimes it was a chicken-and-egg kind of scenario. When I say "serious academic problems", I don't mean stumbling a bit freshman year. The reasons for THAT were myriad, including everything mentioned so far. Plus:
--Thinking that you wanted to be a doctor when you really didn't love science courses that much (and its cousins, thinking that you want to be a social scientist or hard scientist but not liking math).
--Being too dumb a jock to get by the way the not-really-dumb jocks did. (The solution to that one was: find easier courses. It worked.)
--Arrogance, not realizing that you have something to learn.</p>
<p>The full-blown, junior-year onset of schizophrenia one of my friends suffered barely affected his grades at all (discounting his withdrawal from school one semester). But don't try that at home, kids.</p>
<p>Garland, your situation seems uncommon enough that it doesn't surprise me that the college had no good response. Lots of colleges seem well set-up to catch problems in the first and second years, when most of the problems show up. It's harder to notice when a student who did perfectly well for three years runs out of steam, because at that point no one is really watching. (At least until he gets visual and auditory hallucinations and starts speaking in tongues. See above. Then people watch.) Even friends may not spot problems. One of my close friends fell apart enough senior year and failed to graduate. All his friends knew he was drinking too much, and we tried to do something about it. But even his roommates didn't know until after graduation that he had taken incompletes in two of his courses that semester.</p>
<p>Lots of truth in many of the reasons presented. </p>
<p>We had a unique situation. When DD was a junior she lived away from home as a US House Page. She attended school with other pages and worked each day while the House was in session so she had some experience being on her own without parental supervision. She did very, very well.</p>
<p>DD has loved college, but I don't think it has been easy. I think the BIGGEST difference for her in college is the lack of sleep. Four girls share two bedrooms with a common room. Everyone is on a different schedule and no one goes to bed before 12 or 1. She would vehemently disagree with me, but I know that she doesn't function well on little sleep augmented with afternoon naps. I am actually surprised that she did as well as she did.
How can you focus on an Advanced Calc test when you've only had 4 hours of sleep?</p>
<p>"Euphemisms like "party too much" blunt the reality. College drunks run into problems across the board at much, much higher rates than students who don't drink or drink moderately (non binge drinkers) or even students who drink heavily no more than once per week (occasional binge drinkers)."</p>
<p>This is all true, but it doesn't relate directly to those who "bomb OUT of college". Perhaps surprisingly, among prestige colleges, there is no association between extent of binge drinking and dropout rates. If anything, the meager evidence suggests the contrary. One reason for this is that dropout rates are strongly inversely associated with family income. And higher than average family income is at least moderately associated with binge drinking.</p>
<p>Many kids who go to college are on their own for the first time. No parental limits, lots of socializing, so much to do. Academics is only one small part of college. There is so much to learn and so many interesting things to do outside of the classroom. It is easy to get distracted and forget the old study skills, or lose the motivation to apply them. Especially when it seems like EVERYONE is partying of having a good time and NO ONE is studying. It's hard to get back to the salt mines after taking that furlough, and it can be disasterous to some kids. They also just might not want to face the music and procrastinate in getting back on board, thereby losing the entire semester when it just might have been salvaged. </p>
<p>Mood disorders also start springing up at this time. It's a tough bridge to cross to adulthood and some kids have some emotional rough edges. Depression, anxiety, anger, neediness all might come out in a way to really get into the way of studying and going to class. THese are the difficult years emotionally and socially. College kids are cruel to each other as so many have not yet become more refined and cautious in what they say. It's a time with few responsibilities in many ways, but the ones they have are important and if they drop the ball it is hard to get moving again. I think depression and unhappiness really do a lot of damage to our college kids. Then, there is the whole relationship thing. Yes, the partying and the booze and the drugs do their damage too, but they are not the whole picture.</p>
<p>Bessie points out some really accurate issues. I know that several of my son's friends who came home at Christmas and did not return did so because they simply weren't prepared for college. Ironically some of those high school kids who really detest the daily grind of homework and rebelled against the blacken in the dot mentality thrive in college where they set their own pace and schedule especially if they are kids with high self awareness. Also the kids who had to be somewhat responsible for themselves and navigate through high school and maybe didn't have parents who "had their back" daily might have less "problems." A sad anecdote on what has happened to teaching today...my middle son couldn't figure out why he had a 89% in a class. We went on-line and I calculated the scores and came up with a 95%. My son said he tried to ask the teacher how the 89% was calculated and didn't understand and told me to go ahead and ask to see if I would get an understandable answer. I got a voicemail today from the teacher who explained that he had weighted some assignments differently but that he had changed sons grade to a 90 (which in our district is a 4.0 as opposed to an 89 which is recorded as a 3.5). Neither my son nor I ever, ever asked for a grade change. My son is a good kid and maybe the teacher would have done this at the last minute before grades were posted but my gut check reaction was oh my gosh are the teachers so beat up that they assume you're a parent grubbing for a grade change. I felt alittle sad about the "system" this afternoon. So yes, I totally believe that there are high GPA kids that are not ready for particular kinds of college environments. I also know that the greatest percentage of my friends' kids who struggled to the point of probation and worse had problems with too much party and too little attendence, studying, etc.</p>
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some students choose poorly, take on more classes than they should, or more challenging classes than they should
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Coming in with AP credits or college credits can make kids cocky. Advisors can suggest hard classes. Kids take the hard classes and get in over their heads.</p>
<p>I am encouraging D that in her first semester of college, she should take no more than one class where most of the kids are not fellow first-year students. And not too many credits. And see how it goes. You don't want to set yourself up for being hit by a sledgehammer. </p>
<p>I have seen this happen to kids going into top schools with many 5's on AP tests...</p>
<p>JHS, true to some extent. Actually, problems went back to fifth semester, seemed to have been righted at the sixth, then set in with a vengeance during senior year. College was aware enough to send threatening letters home. That was pretty much the extent. Oh, an advisor who called him in, chatted, was charmed, hoped for the best. Like I said, when D's friend at Wes ran into similar issues, the "save her" wheels turned big time. Lots of proactive help, interventions with profs, etc. At S's school.....not so much.</p>
<p>A percentage of students admitted to highly selective colleges have as-yet-undiagnosed or unmanaged learning disabilities or ADHD, because they were able to compensate with other strengths in HS. With loss of the structure of that HS environment and higher level demands, performance can suffer. Most colleges including Ivies have academic support and counseling services because there is a need in that population. Some "top" grad, med and law schools have 20% of students seeking help by graduation.</p>