<p>One more difference that people may not have thought of: disability acceptance.</p>
<p>I’ve called and e-mailed Midwestern, Southern, and Northeastern LACs of varying degrees of selectivity about academic and mental health services (I have mild autism). Schools in the Northeast tended to have snippy, elitist admissions officers who were honest about the “sink-or-swim” atmosphere of their institutions. Schools in the Midwest, in contrast, had counselors who were warm, friendly, and eager to tell me about the accommodations offered by their schools. </p>
<p>Admittedly, I have not conducted a scientific study. These are just the impressions I have after contacting the following colleges:</p>
<p>Northeast:
Bryn Mawr
Wells
Ursinus (better than the others)
Haverford (especially unpleasant)
Smith (especially unpleasant)
Clark U (especially unpleasant)
Colby
Bates
Mount Holyoke</p>
<p>Midwest:
Grinnell
Earlham
Beloit (especially wonderful)
Lawrence U
Wooster
Kenyon
Kalamazoo</p>
Absolutely. My parents had an explicit bias toward schools like Middlebury and Rochester–7-8 hour drives–or even Oberlin at a 9-hour drive over Carleton and Grinnell. After visiting Grinnell, I have to admit that the required layover is annoying.</p>
<p>My parents are very happy that I ended up at the closest school on my list–Swarthmore–especially given that my next six preferred schools required plane rides.</p>
<p>I am surprised and disappointed to see MissPickwickian’s comment about Haverford. I’d have expected more from a traditionally Quaker college, and given all they make of their Honor Code thing.</p>
<p>My kid’s quasi-Midwestern school (Colorado College) has a phenomenal Disabilities Services office. I’ve also read great things about Amherst though.</p>
<p>Keilexandra, I had not noticed your good news from Swarthmore. Wonderful!</p>
<p>tk21769, not all colleges in the Midwest are great for disabilities, and not all colleges in the Northeast have a bad attitude. However, there was a disparity of services and politeness between those specific Midwestern institutions and those specific Northeastern ones. </p>
<p>No pattern formed around prestige and rigor; Grinnell was great, while Smith was snooty. Rather, I suspect that the dichotomy has something to do with the competition vs. cooperation thing that others have mentioned before me. </p>
<p>In closing, I would like to note that I have nothing against Northeastern LACs. Some of them are incredible. . .for the right person. I am not the right person.</p>
<p>^It’s really interesting to see the differences in disability offices, which don’t appear to correlate easily; Smith, for instance, is known for a “supportive,” cooperative environment.</p>
<p>^ Of course it is possible MissPickwickian just caught somebody on a bad day at Haverford or Smith. Or it may be that in institutions as in plumbing, s**t flows downhill. An engaged, personable President can help set the tone for the lowest paid laborer. At our Colorado College orientation, President Richard Celeste (a former Governor of Ohio and Ambassador to India) was out helping parents unload their station wagons and carry up boxes. The alumni aids insisted we step back and let them do the heavy lifting. The mail room clerks and grounds keepers acted with friendly authority, as if everyone had a respected role to play. This not only made for a pleasant orientation, it gave me some confidence that my kid would be treated decently and competently if he ever needs help. </p>
<p>I attended a graduation at another small college in the Northeast, one with its own famous President. He was not even present at the convocation ceremony. He appeared at a reception afterwards but did not linger. This school is known for bureaucratic red tape completely out of proportion to its small size.</p>
<p>^ I’m very surprised at MissPickwickian’s characterization of Haverford which seems inconsistent with everything I’ve ever heard about the place. It is most definitely NOT a hypercompetitive, sink-or-swim environment. Academic standards are high but the emphasis is on collaboration, cooperation, and achievement of one’s personal educational goals, not competition for grades. Haverford describes its Honor Code—which provides the central organizing principles for campus life—as “an articulation of ideals and expectations emphasizing genuine connection and engagement with one another, and the creation of an atmosphere of trust, concern, and respect.” It goes on to explain that “Haverford is a community of talented, motivated, and serious-minded individuals, and yet Haverford is also a remarkably down-to-earth, friendly place that values collaboration over cutthroat competition and where you will find an extraordinary sense of fun. The Honor Code helps to create an environment in which students feel comfortable and at home, and at the same time challenged, pushed, and stretched.” </p>
<p>Every current and former Haverford student my D and I have ever talked to makes those same points—it’s a very inclusive, supportive, and collaborative place. Competition runs deeply against the nature of the place.</p>
<p>Towards that end, Haverford has an Office of Disability Services headed by a Coordinator of Disability Services, a position currently held by a Ph.D. psychologist with over 30 years’ experience in student counseling and educational disability services. Because of the college’s small size, Haverford’s Disability Services program is also small and informal, emphasizing accommodation of individual needs rather than bureaucratic rules or formal programs. The Disability Services Coordinator works with each individual student and her Dean and professors to tailor a set of reasonable accommodations which can include things like accessible classrooms, provision of note-takers or interpreters, technological aids in the classroom or residence, accessible transportation, adjustments to course load, substitution of courses, extended time to complete tests, special arrangements for administration of exams, etc.</p>
<p>Everything else being equal, I would certainly prefer for my child to be closer rather than farther. If I lived in the Midwest, I’d prefer a Midwestern school, no doubt. As an Easterner, I preferred that my child go to a closer one. Now my child goes to school 2 hours away and it seems just right. It isn’t close-mindedness, it is also a matter of convenience and comfort. Also, I hope my children want to live somewhere in the area where we live after they graduate if it is possible and that is what they desire. That is more likely to happen if they go to school nearer than farther. As far as jobs go, a lot of the most interesting and diverse kinds of jobs that are available are mostly located in major cities, many of them on the east or west coasts, so that is another reason why it is practical to go to school in a region where kids can get very good internships and make connections. Maybe there is some reverse snobbery in the idea that people are being close-minded if they don’t want to send their child 1500 miles away to school. That choice may not be for everyone, either.</p>
<p>^ Oh, my goodness, Endicott, there’s just so much to respond to here.</p>
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<p>Well, I’m a Midwesterner. My D will be going to school in the East in the Fall. My strong preference was that she to a quality school that was the best fit; geographic location was way down there on my list of criteria. Guess we’re different that way.</p>
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<p>Yes, well my D will be going to school about 2 1/2 hours away. In Philadelphia. Convenient, frequent, non-stop air service from Minneapolis-St. Paul. It’s really easy these days. That, too, seems just right.</p>
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<p>Did you know there are major cities in the Midwest? Actually, the 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 16th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 26th, 28th, 29th, 32nd, 33rd, 36th, 38th, and 39th largest metropolitan areas in the country are NOT located on the East or West Coast, just to name those in the top 40 (and a bunch more are located in the Southeast which isn’t usually considered “East”). And many (though not all) of these non-coastal metro areas are growing faster than those on the Coasts, meaning more job opportunities. Really diverse economies, too, for the most part. Also, most of the better schools in the Midwest have extensive DC and New York internship programs, along with strong alumni networks in those places. So I’m not sure where the urban/rural divide gets you, unless you erroneously equate Midwest with rural and disconnected.</p>
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<p>LOL. Not sure where you live on the East Coast, but from Washington, DC, 1500 miles would take you almost clear to Denver; certainly to the eastern part of Colorado. Most of the Midwestern LACs people are talking about are nowhere near that far from most major East Coast cities. But that’s a minor point.</p>
<p>Did you know that it’s a shorter drive from Oberlin, Ohio to Washington, DC (393 miles, 6.5 hours) than from Boston to DC (442 miles, 7.5 hours—if you’re lucky)? That the University of Michigan is closer to DC (525 miles) than is Bowdoin College (569 miles), and in driving time Ann Arbor is about as far from DC (8.5 hours) as Middlebury or Dartmouth? Better air connections, too. In fact it takes about as long to fly from Ann Arbor (Detroit Metro, about 20 minutes away) to DC as to fly Boston-DC on the shuttle.</p>
<p>Honestly, some Easterners (and I was one for many years, most of my adult life, actually) talk about the Midwest as if it were some isolated, depopulated, underdeveloped place. 'Tain’t so. According to the Census Bureau, there are more people in the Midwest than in the Northeast—the latter being actually the LEAST populated of the four major regions defined by the Census Bureau. And the Midwest’s major cities, major employers, and better educational institutions are just as well plugged into national and international markets, including job markets, as their peers and competitors on the Coasts. What many Midwesterners know—and perhaps this is a competitive advantage for them—is that it’s actually very easy and convenient to get from major Midwestern population centers to major hubs on the East or West Coast; easier, in fact, than to get to those major East Coast centers from the more isolated corners of the Northeast, and significantly easier than Coast-to-Coast.</p>
<p>oh I forgot to add Vanderbilt and Tulane as schools that for what ever reason are within the acceptable distance for all the helicopters around here! Until I started looking at CC I hadn’t even heard of Carleton, St. Olaf etc.</p>
<p>Grinnell was actually our financial safety, but it seems like such a hassle to get to and from via NY.</p>
<p>I love the Midwestern LACs, but Grinnell is by far the most difficult to “get to” of the top four (Carleton, Grinnell, Oberlin, Macalester) if you’re flying in from outside the Midwest.</p>
<p>I am from California and could care less about the hassle getting to Grinnell. My S will fly into Chicago and then connect to Des Moines. When you factor that they will probably only be home two, three times tops per year it’s a cinch.</p>
<p>For us it was about finding the perfect fit. Grinnell’s academics, acceptance, diversity, endowment, merit scholarship, incredible facilities, etc…put it above other schools we looked at. I think that is a small price to pay when you will be there all the time. </p>
<p>The way I look at it is, what is another two hours?</p>
<p>Anyway, I guess everyone chooses for different reasons.</p>
<p>^My parents were concerned about storms and getting stuck for the layover. And I didn’t really enjoy the layover either… I would much rather be on a plane for an extra two hours than sitting alone in an airport for the same amount of time. It’s easy for me to take a four-hour nap whenever I want, but I can’t do that in the waiting area.</p>
<p>Of course the extra hassle won’t stop someone for which Grinnell is a perfect fit. (I realized after visiting that despite my friends’ amazing experiences there, it was only a -good- fit for me.) But it’s a small notation in the Cons column, which may or may not matter in the overall picture.</p>
<p>The school that best fit me–I don’t believe in a “perfect” fit, really–happened to be “too” close to home. That was also a small notation in the Cons column, although it made (and makes) my parents very happy.</p>
<p>All the above approaches, although differing, seem rational to me. Some are simply more comfortable with kids flying than others; some think of kids making 8 trips a year; some 4. I wish happiness and success to all your kids.</p>
<p>Miss Pick, I am sorry for your experience at Haverford, but my overall impression from speaking to lots of alumni and some current students is in line Bclintok’s, so I hope you reconsider.</p>
<p>Cayman, I think Tulane and Vanderbilt benefit with helicopter parents because both have been very well known schools for a long time. Tulane sends out acceptances very early, making it a popular choice with kids/parents who want a quick acceptance, and is said to commonly offer merit aid. I also suspect a lot of parents like the idea of visiting New Orleans and Nashville.</p>
<p>^ I’m going to give Haverford the benefit of the doubt; it WAS just one e-mail. However, Haverford is too selective for me, and it would be too late for me to apply anyway.</p>
<p>Wow, what a thread! All the squabbling and debating. Anyway, Miss Pickwickian, I’m surprised that you didn’t have Oberlin on your list of Midwestern LACs to consider. I would think it is slightly less selective than Haverford and considerably more liberal. Too liberal for you, perhaps? My D is a freshman there and loving every minute. It’s a seven hour drive for us. There are more Oberlin students from California and New York than Ohio. And there are tons of Minnesotans, Massachusetts kids, Arizonians, and even Hawaiians. Both my wife and I wish we could go back to college. We’d both pick Oberlin. :)</p>
<p>I was born in the Northeast, went to a private, Catholic university in NYC and hated every minute of the school and the city. I much prefer the Midwest. So does my D, which is why she passed on northeastern LACs (and Cornell U) for Oberlin. Her largest first semester class had only 16 students. I don’t think any of the Ivies can claim that kind of student:faculty ratio for freshmen. And the professors teach all of the classes. No T.A.s doing the teaching like at large research universities.</p>
<p>Haha! Mine is. But you know, getting him out to Colorado Springs from Baltimore-Washington has been pretty easy. Once you are in the air it is not much difference whether you are flying to Iowa, Minnesota or Colorado. It’s a ~4 hour flight with 75 minutes ground transit from our house at one end and ~10 minutes to school at the other. Much less than the drive time to Maine or Vermont; we would not be seeing him any more often if he were there. We’d have more pressure to get him a car (more expensive than the plane tickets.) And ironically, Colorado Springs is more cosmopolitan than most of the LAC locations he considered back East (other than the Philadelphia suburbs, maybe).</p>
<p>I just wanted to thank you all for answering one of the questions that brought me to CC - why so many middle class people opt for small, private schools when comparable publics are available for lower cost. I had no idea that regional differences were so great - that publics in the northeast are relatively weaker (or seen as weaker) compared to the Midwest.</p>
<p>What I would still like to know is how student affluence plays out. I would think that being less well off compared to fellow students would seriously detract from one’s enjoyment of more affluent schools. Are the proportion of very well off to middle class/lower class significantly different at eastern LACs vrs. Midwest LACs?</p>
<p>This is only my opinion, so please don’t attack me as I could be wrong but…</p>
<p>I don’t know if there is a difference at eastern LAC’s vs Midwest LAC’s in regards to being well off compared to fellow students and how they are treated, but I will say after researching and visiting, the Midwest schools to be more tolerant and accepting and if the money is there, you don’t tend to notice it as much. I know it is there at schools like Grinnell and Carleton, but you don’t notice it the way you do at some of their peer schools in the NE. Don’t get me wrong, the facilities and endowment is there and you can see that right away, but the attitude is different. Again, this was my impression and I don’t want to speak for others. I really like Swat, Williams etc…but the great Midwest schools felt more at home and I don’t think money makes a difference as much. Just my opinion.</p>