<p>Our southern California son is looking at LACs in both the Midwest and Northeast. It's all new territory to us, so we could use some opinions on the similarities and differences. Academics, social atmosphere, cost/value, weather, sports/activities, etc... I'm sure each one is unique, but are there any prevailing trends? DS is a top student (junior), looking for great academics, a cooperative learning atmosphere, preferably an international orientation, and a lively rock/jazz music scene. But regardless of his personal interests, we are curious about the Midwest/Northeast comparison. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Bias alert - I'm a Carleton mom.</p>
<p>My daughter applied to LACs in the northeast, midwest, and south. Academics are pretty similar among the top LACs, but we did notice the midwest LACs have a more relaxed feel - less competitiveness. Cost is somewhat less, and many midwest LACs offer merit aid. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I am a midwesterner also, and would concur with fireflyscout. Students who attend midwest LACs tend to be less worried about prestige as the schools are not quite as well known as their northeast counterparts. Many of them have very high academic quality but don't get as many applicants as schools in the northeast. Therefore, they are often ranked somewhat lower by USNWR, but I don't think this means lower quality. </p>
<p>As everywhere else, each school has a different flavor. Macalaster is known for its international connections (Kofi Annan is an alum) and Oberlin has a great music scene. And midwestern schools do offer more merit aid.</p>
<p>MIDWESTERN LACS
Pros:
-Often not too competitive.
-Some give merit aid to top applicants. </p>
<p>Cons:
-Less name recognition.
-The majority are in towns, rather than cities, and midwestern towns are extremely oriented towards drinking (in the sense that it's often the primary and only form of entertainment for residents).
-If you're looking at the upper midwest, such as the Great Lake states, it's important to understand that the winters will be significantly colder than winters in the northeast. Think -20. </p>
<p>NORTHEASTERN LACS
Pros:
-You can find almost any atmosphere you want (intellectual, artsy, athletic, laid-back, outgoing), additionally paired with old East Coast prestige.
-Winters are more moderate.
-Because north eastern states are smaller and more compact, it's easy to travel into major cities, as they usually aren't too far away.
-Some give merit aid to top applicants. </p>
<p>Cons:
-More competitive in admissions.
-Some have higher sticker prices on tuition.</p>
<p>Also, for school recommendations, look at:</p>
<p>-Middlebury, Tufts, and Vassar in the northeast. Middlebury and Tufts are especially known for their international focus, and Vassar is known for it's artsy side and diverse interests. </p>
<p>-Oberlin. Somewhat similar to Vassar, I'd say, only significantly more secluded. Then also maybe Kalamazoo. </p>
<p>-Elon in the mid-atlantic. Has an amazing study abroad program, and good fine arts as well. Plus an amazing campus. </p>
<p>-Occidental, Lewis & Clark, and Santa Clara in your neck of the woods. All 3 seem to fit what you're looking for.</p>
<p>I would wholeheartedly agree with fireflyscout and shennie. The one dominant characteristic that defines Midwestern schools like Carleton, Grinnell, and Macalester is the warmth, collegiality and non-competitive nature of the student bodies that constitute them. The academic rigor of some of their programs is near-legendary, but this is workload softened by a wonderfully cooperative and supportive campus spirit. While this is not the exclusive domain of the Midwest, Northeastern schools, as a group, do tend to be, well, more Northeastern. They certainly as a group are more sharply edged. Exceptions to this rule abound. </p>
<p>The Northeasterners are a much larger and diverse group (as they obviously are at the private university level as well) and prevailing trends, Id argue, dont apply to the same degree as they do in the Midwest. Despite world changers suggestion of ease of access to cities, many are quite isolated (Middlebury and Williams, for example, trading city access for lovely, bucolic self-sustained campuses). Haverford, Swarthmore, Wellesley, etc. offer suburban locales with the good and bad endemic to the genre. Barnard is truly urban. Amherst, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, etc. are large college-town anchored. Oberlin is always hard to pin down. Despite its Midwest label, twice as many kids actually come from the Northeast than the Midwest and its vibe is a blend. To answer another world changer contention, alcohol is ubiquitous, heating more New Englanders AND Midwesterners during the winter months than oil and gas do combined. </p>
<p>Personal favorites guaranteed to make your dreams come true:</p>
<p>For great academics, a cooperative learning atmosphere you have to consider Carleton, Grinnell, Wesleyan.</p>
<p>For international orientation you have to consider Macalester and Middlebury.</p>
<p>For a lively rock/jazz music scene you have to consider Oberlin along with schools with major city access. </p>
<p>Obviously, lots and lots of other great LACs out there. Good luck exploring.</p>
<p>I would put Amherst, Swarthmore and Williams, and possibly Wellesley, in a category of their own in prestige and selectivity. Note: I didn’t say academic achievement because I believe that you could get as good an education at several Midwestern LACs (for example at Carleton), but among that admittedly small group of the general population who even know what an LAC is, AWS stand out. </p>
<p>Beyond that, I think that there is a high degree of homogeneity between Midwestern LACs and Northeastern LACs. Of course they each have their own distinct personalities but you could find a Midwestern counterpart to most Northeast schools – Hamilton = Kenyon. </p>
<p>If you need or want merit money the midwesterns are excellent values. If you qualify for need based aid the difference may be less obvious or less consistent from area to area.</p>
<p>I’m originally from the Midwest but I’ve spent a lot of time in the Northeast where my son chose to go to college. I now live in Asia and have found it interesting to note how many highly qualified kids -- both American expats and foreign nationals -- from Asian international schools have "discovered" the Midwestern LACs. At my son's highschool, Grinnell is currently a top-pick, I think because of the academics + merit opportunities. The result is that these formerly insular schools are becoming more global in their focus.</p>
<p>I don’t know that I would agree with the generalities that the Midwest is friendlier, though school by school I would agree that some Northeastern schools have more laid-back, easy going students than others. The range of personality, location and physical surroundings is just too great wide to make a one size fits all statement about either geographic location. </p>
<p>
[quote]
looking for great academics, a cooperative learning atmosphere, preferably an international orientation, and a lively rock/jazz music scene/
[/quote]
Great academics – Many qualify
Cooperative learning atmosphere – In my opinion you’ll find this just about any LAC, even at AWS
International orientation – If you mean more international kids then again AWS are a good starting point because they fund a lot of internationals to increase their diversity. Urban campuses tend to be more diverse because of the flock together tendency. Macalester is always high on the international circuit.
Lively rock/jazz music scene – This sounds like urban environment to me which does limit the LAC array. If a supportive music department with plenty of performance opportunities will suffice then I’d take a look at Williams</p>
<p>Wesleyan (one of the Little Three, along with Williams and Amherst) has a rock/jazz music scene that rivals some much bigger universities. Two alum from the Class of `05 recently premiered on the Letterman show; Anthony Braxton is a professor of music. Dar Williams, the folksinger is an alum. Weekend events at Wesleyan nearly always feature bands, many of them home-grown. About 6% of the student body is intel.</p>
<p>One other thing that may or may not be important to you is the percentage of kids who attended private vs. public schools. While I don't have the hard data, my guess is a much larger percentage students attending midwest schools are from public high schools than in the northeast. I don't know if that is important to you, but thought I would mention it. </p>
<p>As far as the weather goes, yes it is colder here than the NE, but really not that much. This winter has been particularly snowy and cold in WI but we still have not had THAT much that is below zero. It is currently 23 with light snow. Monday they are forecasting rain. I think people have the impression that if they come to the midwest they are going to spend the entire winter in the deep freeze and that just isn't so.</p>
<p>We're in the NE, have lived in the SE, MW and MidSouth regions. This is a gross generalization, but I' m persuaded that collectively, the latter 3 areas tend to be far better "values" than the NE LACs. I believe it's because of costs of operation, lagging reputations, centers of population, history of higher education and especially private higher ed, NE and New England provinciality and elitism, and drive vs. satisfied appetite to be of great quality AND be recognized as such. The ultimate complexity in all of this is measuring quality. It's very difficult to complete the argument I'm trying to. </p>
<p>For these and other reasons, I'm of the mindset that one generally gets notablyh more for their money in private education virtually anywhere outside the NE LACs. The major downside is that a great many don't grasp how "rich" Rice, Rhodes, Millsaps, Grinnell, Macalester, St. Olaf, Wooster, Denison, Wake Forest, Davidson, W & L , and a great many others are. A great many are blinded by Boston and lands east of Buffalo, imo.</p>
<p>Midwestern LACs are equally strong in terms of academics as the NE LACs, and prestige is equally high in academic circles. And what's best is that they're a lot easier to get in to than their NE equals. For example, Carleton is easier to get in to than, say, Amherst or Swat, yet it's just as good (if not better).</p>
<p>No doubt you're onto something, but only illustrating the point of provicialism and elitist POV, can't you just hear the Mainliners and Brahmins sp? snickering at your pt? How could it possibly be?! hrrrmph</p>
<p>One more point is that a Carleton or its St. Olafian neighbor have no coastal "sex appeal" so they'd better be genuinely good.</p>
<p>Obviously not as good - they’re in the Midwest!
^general East Coast/cc advice.</p>
<p>In all seriousness, many Midwestern LACs simply don’t generate the same interest as their NE counterparts, but are equally strong (or even superior).</p>
<p>Beyond the conservatories and jazz programs at Oberlin and Lawrence, and jazz at Evansville, I don’t know too much about the jazz scenes at LAC schools in the Midwest.</p>
<p>In terms of academics, Carleton, Grinnell, Lawrence, DePauw, and Macalester are known for rigorous programs. Although not quite in the same league, Kalamazoo, Wooster, and Beloit have interesting options and a fairly intellectual environment.</p>
<p>As for what a previous poster said alcohol heats Midwesterners and New Englanders in winter more than coal and gas combined, although it’s just as easy to avoid that scene as it would be anywhere else.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people are pleasantly surprised by how liberal these midwestern LAC’s tend to be – there is a stereotype that everyone in the midwest is ma-and-pa-kettle-conservative, and that really isn’t the case at all.</p>
<p>Interesting how much positive press the midwestern LACs are getting here compared to the northeastern LACs. I have to admit, as a parent who had never even visited the midwest prior to college visits, I was prepared to write off all the midwestern LACs because there were so many good LACs on the eastern seaboard, where we live. But after doing the research, making the visits (10 schools in the NE and MW), and my S’s instant love for Grinnell, we are now boosters for the midwestern LACs in general and Grinnell in particular (love the merit aid, small classes, great facilities and expecially strong sciences). Of course, all the LACs have distinct personalities and strengths, some of which might be a better fit for your particular kid-and because the schools are small, it’s worth figuring out what those personalities are so your kid can decide if her or she would be a good fit. As stated above, the strong work-ethic, community spirit, sheer unironic niceness, and unpretentiousness of the midwest really won us over.</p>
<p>As an ex-Californian, I think the weather sounds brutal and it would be a show-stopper for me, but S says it doesn’t seem to make much difference to anyone. They even had classes during the recent blizzard there…</p>
<p>Midwest LACs:Northeast LACs::Midwest Universities:Northeast Universities</p>
<p>I am from the NE, and so are 99% of the my relatives. One of them cannot understand why we looked to the midwest for some college options. The answer, as others have said, is that I feel one gets a bigger bang for the buck, better chance at merit aid, son is more desirable to the midwestern schools in general since he comes from the NE. Some looked very much just like schools in the NE. He has just been accepted to four of them, all with merit aid, and we are waiting to hear from two more of them. Oh, and my son is a B+ student.</p>
<p>To prodigalson:
Yes, because Chicago, Northwestern, WUSTL, Notre Dame, and IU are all schools no one would EVER want to go to. Hell, throw in Tulsa if you want (hugely underrated school).</p>
<p>Ignore prodigalson. Clear ■■■■■ alert.</p>
<p>A couple of posters have suggested that the Midwestern colleges face much colder winters than the Northeastern schools. I don’t think this stands up to scrutiny. Moreover, to get a good sense of the climate and its likely impact on your mood, you should consider not only the temperature but also the days of sunshine in each region.</p>
<p>Below is data for the USNWR top 25 LACs, ranked by number of days of sunshine per year. Schools in Massachusetts, Vermont and New York get less sunshine than schools in Iowa, Colorado and Minnesota, and tend to get just about as cold.</p>
<p>
Rank Days USNWR<em>rank College (Nearby City) Average</em>January_Low
1 186 6 Pomona (Los Angeles, 73% sunny) 42 degrees
2 186 11 Claremont McK (Los Angeles)
3 186 14 Harvey Mudd (Los Angeles)
4 186 25 Scripps (Los Angeles)</p>
<p>5 127 24 Colorado College (Colorado Springs, 69% sunny) 14 degrees
6 109 8 Davidson (Charlotte, 62% sunny)
7 105 14 Grinnell (Des Moines, 59% sunny) 9 degrees
8 105 19 US Naval Acad (Baltimore, 57% sunny)</p>
<p>9 101 6 Bowdoin (Portland, 57% sunny) 12 degrees
10 101 22 Colby (Portland)
11 101 25 Bates (Portland)</p>
<p>12 100 14 W&L (Richmond, 63% sunny)
13 98 4 Wellesley (Boston, 58% sunny) 22 degrees
14 95 8 Carleton (Twin Cities, 58% sunny) 4 degrees</p>
<p>15 93 3 Swarthmore (Phila., 56% sunny) 25 degrees
16 93 10 Haverford (Phila.)
17 93 25 Bryn Mawr (Phila.)</p>
<p>18 90 1 Williams (Worcester) 9 degrees
19 90 2 Amherst (Worcester) 11 degrees
20 90 18 Smith (Worcester)
21 90 25 Mt. Holyoke (Worcester)</p>
<p>22 82 13 Wesleyan (Hartford, 56% sunny)</p>
<p>23 69 11 Vassar (Albany, 58% sunny) 13 degrees
24 69 14 US Military Acad (Albany)
25 69 19 Colgate (Albany)
26 69 21 Hamilton (Albany)</p>
<p>27 66 22 Oberlin (Cleveland, 49% sunny) 16 degrees
28 58 4 Middlebury (Burlington, 49% sunny) 9 degrees
</p>
<p>Weather data sources:
[World</a> Facts and Figures - Weather Facts and Statistics<a href=“excludes%20partly%20sunny%20or%20partly%20cloudy%20days”>/url</a></p>
<p>[url=<a href=“Google Answers: Sunshine per state”>Google Answers: Sunshine per state]Google</a> Answers: Sunshine per state](<a href=“http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/weatherfacts/numbersunny_city_desc.php]World”>http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/weatherfacts/numbersunny_city_desc.php)</p>
<p>[US</a> temperature January map](<a href=“http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/thematic-maps/usa-temprature-january.html]US”>US temperature January map)</p>