@bestmom888 no one is putting all the blame on parents. If you can’t tell where the line is, then maybe you are there. You can be proud of your kids, but if, for example, you are going to pull an EC that your child loves because she got a couple of B’s, that can be a problem. That EC may be his/her only stress outlet. And kids can read body language. They are very perceptive - they know what pleases or displeases a parent.
As for the articles, you need to read them entirely and not cherry pick - the kid that was super successful in high school had difficulty fitting in at a college where everyone else was also super successful at their high schools. That doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy. The purpose of college is multi-faceted. Yes, it’s about learning and developing skills to get a job, but it’s also about developing who you are, learning to be independent, and shedding the need to constantly please people. The pressure appears to be greater at the top of the US News lists. Same goes for Wall Street, law firms, med school, etc. It’s just sad that some of these kids are blindsided when they get to school and don’t have the confidence to admit they are unhappy or made a mistake.
Yes, some kids have tremendous difficulty coping when everyone is smart.
I would never take away an EC over a B because those are the things that are making them happy, socialized and feel accomplished. …at least it has been for my D.
@lastone03 My dd currently spends 40+hrs a week on ECs! 20 hrs on her sport and 20 more on her dance companies. What is so wrong that I want her to drop one of her two dance companies so that she can have some downtime?!! – as I told you in #144.
No, I can’t always tell where the line is. More power to you that you can.
“That doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy.” – obviously.
@MommyCoqui School administrators can’t win. They are going to be accused of “ruining my child’s life” by everyone. It’s always a tug-of-war between two sides: on the one side you have the “my kid’s feelings were hurt” that you didn’t pick her for (algebra h, dance co, etc.) and on the other side you have the “my kid is bored because you don’t provide the advance level he needs to keep him engaged.”
Some kids, totally mom and dad’s fault. But with others, knowledge is power. If the kids get all the info they need in HS about the realities of the app process, College and whether it is even appropriate for all, there will be less stress.
Nevertheless, some kids are just type A high anxiety kids.
Isn’t it about doing the best thing for your kids (relative to your financial situation)? I guess some would say no to that. They would argue school X is fine, why would you pay more regardless of your financial situation. At the end of the day, I’m sure most parents want the best for their kids. I like to take money out of the equation. Based on the available choices (acceptances) what is the best thing for the kid (based on all the fit criteria). Now add back the financial situation and pay for what you can.
Clearly if you can’t afford something, you can’t. Just like you can’t afford a certain home, or car, or vacation or whatever. If you can, you likely do what you think makes the most sense. Some will still go with the lower cost option. others will invest more for their pwn reasons.
We’re all different so know sense in comparing. Have a neighbor with similar financials. His S was admitted where my S attends. He chose to send him to state flagship. He frequently tells me how much S loves it and then talks about overcrowding, massive classes, etc. I just listen. I feel my son is getting far more value at his small private school. He better be because we’re spending a ton! (That’s the other thing - where are they most likely to engage - S is fully engaged at his school. Don’t think he would be in a massive environment)
And some are plain driven, iots of ideas they go for, sarisfued with challenges, without anxiety.
You know I advocate they become informed about the process and get some disagreement that they should just do what they want. Until we’re all better informed, there are many mixed messages.
In my experience the Ivy obsession is much more of a CC thing than a widespread high school mentality. I recognize it may be different at other schools, particularly in some parts of the northeast. But here in our mid-tier suburban San Diego HS I’d say seldom more than five kids per year are heavily focused on getting into the Ivy league or Stanford or MIT. Of the 600 seniors who graduate each year most who go to college at all go to community college. A fair number go to to Cal States or mid- and lower-range UCs or OOS. The most popular dream schools are UCLA and Berkeley, not the Ivy League. Only about the top 5 or so kids apply Ivy in any given year and sometimes not even that. And every year between 1 to 3 of them will get in.
CC is a self-selected population with a much higher percentage of Ivy-obsessed kids (and Ivy obsessed parents). It doesn’t reflect the real world very well. IMO, railing against the Ivy League is trying to solve a problem that (in my neighborhood at least) doesn’t exist.
Because of Naviance stats available for around last 7 years at my kid’s HS here in Southern CA, kids, parents and counselors know that around 70~100 kids all apply to similar groups of colleges which include some Ivies, UCLA/Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, CalTech etc. They all know every year, only around 7 ~ 10 kids end up going to Ivies, mostly Cornell, UPenn. Maybe in a special year, there is one Harvard, one Stanford, one MIT, one Yale or Princeton. In contrast, every year, there are 20 to 30 kids attending both UCLA and Berkeley. Because of this, no one is obsessed with getting into any Ivy because simply put, they know the odds are against them. But many of these kids are just as smart, if not smarter academically, than many students who get into Ivies IMO because arguably it’s more difficult to get admitted to top 30 colleges with good merit money than get into top 5 ranked colleges without any merit money.
One side comment is my kid had a home room teacher who knew my kid’s stats but kept on telling us during a teacher/parents conference that my kid should apply to some Cal State schools or University of Portland etc, i.e., just kept on underselling my kid’s chances. I knew he meant well but he made it appear that it would be very difficult for my kid to get into UCLA level of school that I ignored everything he said from that point. It turned out that I had a more accurate evaluation of my kid’s chances. Obviously, he was not one of the teachers my kid asked for LOR.
I think its a CYA type thing. Our HS also practically required every college bound kid to apply to a Cal State, ‘to be safe’. We refused, and were called at home by the Home Room teacher just to double check that the kid sent home the announcement. (“Yeah, I got it, and no, kid ain’t going to Cal State. At worse, will attend a JC for one year, cash in AP credits and transfer to Cal or UCLA, or other UC.”)
Guidance Counselors, teachers, administrators…they just don’t know. They apply their own experience (I went to State U and turned out OK) and look to manage expectation in a hurricane. It’s impossible.
We have one GC for each 35-40 kids. They work really hard to help the kids, but ultimately they can’t possibly provide real guidance. They can’t know the order in which the student / family place different schools, the financial situation, or other specifics (like how you feel on campus). They can’t help on the strategy around ED, which has become it’s own animal. Aim too high and it’s their fault your kids has no good choices. Aim too low and families complain they weren’t rejected anywhere (see…I could have gone Ivy).
I’ve never lived anyplace where post #1 seemed to apply.
When I lived in the Midwest, more of the excellent students wanted to go to Stanford, Northwestern, Wash U, UCLA, Berkeley, U Texas Plan B or our local state U than wanted to go to ivies.
At my kids’ HS in NYC suburbs everyone knows there are good schools outside of the ivies. Basically all of the “top 50” schools and LACs are heavily applied to by its students, not just the ivies.
I don’t think the mentality where I’ve lived really needs any changing.
YMMV.
When it comes to graduate school, it is often more about where your “people” are - i.e the people studying the topic you want to pursue. Last fall, S applied to only 3 PhD programs because those were the only places where there were people studying his particular topic of interest and offering PhD programs (his Master’s advisor wanted 10). Fortunately, he had 2 great offers to choose from. The only Ivy-type even close was Yale, and even their program was not quite it. (Of course, their acceptance is like 3/700, so that further discouraged any attempt to apply there.)
@SwimmingDad I had heard this about Lexington HS now for a long time, and interesting that the NY Times covered that story. i have heard of many less talented students totally slipping through the cracks at Lexington HS as well, going to U Mass Dartmouth and flunking out. They were not well served at Lexington HS.
As far as what happens in Colorado, kids here are focused on the west coast, plus MIT and some Ivy, but Stanford is the school that seems to be everyone’s dream school, and they heavily recruit athletes from the top private public Colorado high school programs due to our well coached, and talented high altitude for runners, swimmers, volleyball, etc. So regular A students try and fail, but because “that athletic girl” got in, the tide will not stem, there is no understanding of the athletic recruiting process among parents and students who say “I am smarter than Ms. Long distance runner at Stanford”. Its arrogant and shows their lack of knowledge of this process but it keeps going!
The sad part is, some of the athletic recruits at Stanford seem really miserable and poorly matched to the academics there , but that will not change Colorado’s total obsession with Stanford, starting in the womb, for some kids. Age 5, they are wearing their Stanford gear by then, and starting on their EC journey! Its a bit silly and sad.
I see less well off students, often boys, apply to only three or four schools here, their “dream” and the local flagship and a random state school on the west coast that is not a remote fit like U of Oregon and they actually want to study engineering which is taught at Oregon State! . Top engineering schools like Purdue or UIUC are only just being mentioned among super smart math kids in Boulder. There have been boys at the very highest levels of competitive mathematics here to be rejected at their dream school and land at our flagship. Our flagship is rising in rank in part, because of OP’s premise: , IVY/STANFORD/MIT over focus so the smarty pants kids land there and help the rank. Leadership has improved as well at CU/Mines/CSU/DU. I want to change the narrative but how?
