The NE publics could use such love. How many threads have we seen on cc that say, ‘anywhere but Rutgers.’ And this is from top stat kids who would receive automatic merit money from thier instate public.
That narrative is ancient history. The “Ivy Plus” (Stanford, UChicago, MIT) are more prestigious than most ivies. Internationally, moreover, they are even more dominant.
Missing the forest for the trees.
There are a few universities to which the great majority of current America faculty members would move, if they were offered a faculty position there. Not all of them are Ivies. Not all of the Ivies could attract the majority of American faculty members by offering them a position.
But the universities that can get whatever faculty members they want tend to have exceptionally strong faculty. The faculty members are often sought after they have established reputations as leading scholars internationally, while on faculties elsewhere. They may not be the best teachers, but they are at the forefronts of the thinking in their fields (generally speaking).
From time to time, I wish that it were possible to establish Best Entryway to an IB Career U, Most Prestigious U, Highest Status U, Best Return on Investment U, Highest Lifetime Income U, Best Career Network U, Most Successful Pre-Med U, Best Pre-Law U, and even Best for Students-to-Interact-with-a-Large-Group-of-Exceptionally-Bright-Students U, to draw off the applicants whose interest in the Ivies or other highly ranked universities is predicated on these qualities. Then CC members could argue whether one needed to go to Best Entryway to an IB Career U in order to gain entry to an IB career.
I do not think that top faculty would be attracted to any of these universities, in general, even the one that offers students the opportunity to interact with other bright students–if the students there are mainly interested in intellectual engagement with each other, rather than learning from the faculty. I often think that emphasizing the student-student intellectual interactions is a defensive move by universities where the faculty are really not that interested in undergraduates, when you get right down to it.
This would leave open the opportunity for students with deep scholarly interests in their subjects to pursue them, while being taught by the faculty who have been identified as being at the forefront of thinking in their fields.
I know Harvard reserves 200-300 spots admissions for the students they see as most likely to become exciting scholars of the next generation (or however they phrase it), but I think there are more than 300 times n students who are interested in and capable of becoming important scholars, where n is the number of essentially equivalent top universities (probably n = 1 for a true Harvard alum).
I also know that there are Nobel Laureates outside the select university group.
I further realize that my ideas are more doomed than most ideas about “changing the narrative” around the Ivies. I also know most of the comments such as “not their mission,” “people want to go there because wealthy and important people go there, so they have to admit wealthy and important people,” “I learned more from my fellow students than I did in my classes,” etc. that are likely to be made. But a person can dream. 
A perfect example of money better donated elsewhere.
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I get your point, at least with regard to this thread. But Knight-Hennessey is playing the long game. It is their intent to make the KH schollies as prestigious as a Rhodes.
@QuantMech:
“This would leave open the opportunity for students with deep scholarly interests in their subjects to pursue them, while being taught by the faculty who have been identified as being at the forefront of thinking in their fields.”
Caltech already exists.
Changing the narrative starts with us. We need to reinforce that each student needs to find the school that fits THEM, regardless of prestige. Thought she was well-qualified, none of the Ivies made it onto my daughter’s short list once she visited and found that their reputation was no substitute for “fit”.
Let’s change the narrative around the NFL, the Kardashian’s, and the Bachelor too?
I’m not sure this is the problem you guys make it out to be. I think I’m more concerned about the thousands of elementary schools in the country who are producing kids who aren’t reading at grade level, and the tens of thousands of kids stuck in these schools than I am about a few star struck kids who want to go to Harvard because it’s Harvard.
That’s not exactly the biggest challenge facing education today.
Read the statistics on boys who don’t read at grade level by age 8 and what their long term outcomes look like. Then come back and tell me how much you care about Ivy frenzy. A pretty significant percentage of kids in America don’t have the skills to graduate from ANY college- Harvard, Hofstra, East Oshkosh State. Not because they are status conscious, or prestige %^^&, or investment banking wannabees. But because they cannot read college level material, write a coherent paragraph, or do basic mathematical calculations.
We really gonna chew this over again? Harvard, Sharmvard. Any kid who is on track to be worried about the Ivy League is going to do just fine in life regardless of the college they end up at. Let’s worry about everyone else.
I.Love.Blossom.
It indicates that the student’s (or perhaps his/her parents’) notion of “fit” is primarily prestige or selectivity.
Wouldn’t it be a good start if CC didn’t isolate out “Ivy League” as a separate forum? And let those schools be in the list with all the other schools?
Maybe students can all choose schools by the college sports leagues with the best-paid graduates. After the Ivy League would be the Patriot League, and the UAA would be next. Makes perfect sense. 
Sure, blossom. Yes. But this is CC and we’re all here. Most important topic? No. But we’re not out there pounding the pavement for fair change, we’re on a forum talking about college frenzy among a slice of kids. (All in all, I’d rather these bright hs kids put the effort into legit local service for others than gaming a ridiculous competition or all the talk about being themselves, building just their own futures. But this is CC.)
@KLSD “Applying to many Ivies shows that a student is after prestige over fit.”
no. most people apply EA or ED to their fav, then apply to lots of others RD if they struck out EA ED. with 5% acceptance rates you can’t pick and choose. don’t be silly
@CValle’s suggestion to eliminate Ivies as a separate forum on CC is great. Perhaps the powers that be will agree. Those schools would all still appear in the “Top Universities” subforum for readers wishing to filter by reputation.
As long as some schools are perceived to be a gateway to prestigious careers in IB/management consulting and elite med/law/grad school admissions, there will always be high pressure to get into an Ivy.
Where they’re categorized on CC is the least of it. Kids don’t go to that heading on CC to learn what the Ivies are. They’ve already caught the bug.
@lookingforward it is the least of it - agreed - but it certainly serves to perpetuate the nonsense that there are ALL THE OTHER COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES in the country AND then there is the Ivy League. It is a ridiculous way of separating out a few schools. And it certainly serves to perpetuate the idea that they are somehow head and shoulders above ALL OTHER colleges and univiersities.
This has been discussed but the administrators decided to keep things the way they are.