<p>In my experience, roughly the same number of kids ultimately changed their minds about pursuing a future as a performer in both BFA and Performance-oriented BA programs. Very few HS seniors are a zillion percent sure of anything, even if they think they are. </p>
<p>It’s true that, as we all see here on cc every year, kids in BFA programs who decide to switch direction often transfer and need to start again at a different program as a freshman, but I also know many who complete their BFAs even after realizing they won’t perform. It is true that if you’re entering college hoping to double major, or wanting to take a lot of non-theatre classes, a BA may be a better option.</p>
<p>I just wanted to clarify these things for people just starting their school selection process.</p>
<p>Oh yea that’s was exactly my point. I apologize if it came across as a BA was somehow less than a BFA, was not my intention at all. My point was if the student is interested in non-theatre classes, which seems the OP son is, a BA seems to be a better option. </p>
<p>I totally agree with earlier posts regarding the fact that talent is only one bit of the equation (in my less than scientfic study of the process I have found that determination, stick-to-it-ive-ness a good attitude and some luck may actually be more important) and that the BFA/BA argument is moot - kids should study in the way that works for them, there are a million different paths. </p>
<p>When I am stressing about the next phases of the journey for my D- I often go back to something we were given at the Syracuse audition- a copy of a blog post</p>
<p>I think the points MomCares makes are all valid. Certainly, a BA is not “lesser” in any fashion than a BFA. Both paths can lead to the same outcome.</p>
<p>That said, I think the original advice for the young man in question is that a BA sounds like a more appropriate path. I would not advise a BFA for someone who is not 100% certain (at that point in time…yes, things can change later) that they want to pursue this field. Yes, you can be 100% certain and pursue a BA too! But a BFA is not truly appropriate for anyone who is not full on sure of wanting to major in this, devote countless hours to it and hopefully pursue it professionally. It is making a commitment to a major before entering and perhaps at a school the student would not consider attending if not for the BFA program within it. A BA path allows someone to not commit to a major in HS (unless it is an audition based BA program), and makes it easier to switch majors, as many college students do. The student is truly choosing the entire college, not just a single program in it. Yes, there are exceptions all the way around. But as a general train of thought, someone who is not certain at this point in time, should consider a BA school very strong in both a theater major option and extracurricular theater, thus leaving options open. This is precisely why my daughter, who was interested in architecture but not ready to commit, pursued a BA path at a school that had the major, but was not yet ready to commit to a BArch program (this is much like the BFA vs. BA decision for theater) and then went on to obtain a graduate degree in architecture.</p>
<p>Great advice - thank you!! My son is very much into all his other classes - loves history, government, the model UN, the quiz bowl and had a blast with AP Chemistry last year. While theater is a big part of his life, I somehow don’t see him fully committed to doing only theater classes. Of course, that’s my take on it - will definitely discuss this with him when he’s home for the holidays. We did visit Northwestern last summer and he loved the fact that he could be a big part of the theater program there without having to do only theater. So, maybe in his case, that’s the way to go.</p>
<p>I think momcares is right to take the opportunity to remind one and all the BA is not lesser than message though I’m quite certain nobody was saying that. But a Theatre BA, no matter where you get it, in general means there is more opportunity to explore other subjects within the context of accomplishing your major in 4 years than you will find in many BFA programs. There are some exceptions. NYU for example has wiggle room on that and frankly, a pretty high number of non studio classes that the BFA majors must take much to the chagrin of some students that would prefer to skip those academic classes altogether. I’ve also seen many posts this year referring to how busy their kids are at other schools and then they also mention the one academic class their kid is taking (often it’s freshman English) and it looks like, that’s pretty much it on the academic side. So it is possible that some programs are so major-related, studio class heavy that if you want to explore your love of history while studying theatre, you’ll find that hard to do. In general, BA programs offer greater flexibility so be sure you understand the particulars of any program, BA or BFA that you consider. Meanwhile, no way is a theatre BA from a great school (like Northwestern as an example but there are many others), less than. I actually tried to talk my daughter into a great one but failed. though she is in a BFA with a heavy academic load so she didn’t get off Scott free on those academics either. </p>
<p>I think that besides the valid points of being able to study other subjects in a BA Theater program, is the concept that with most BA schools, a high school student doesn’t have to commit to their college major while still in high school. Most colleges students commit to a major in their sophomore year of college. Many enter “undecided” and/or switch majors while in college. A BA school makes that easier to do. I really think a BFA isn’t a great choice if one is still “undecided” about their college major prior to college. And that’s perfectly fine and natural for most teens. Of course, some who pursue a BA in Theater ARE committed to a theater major but want what a BA can offer and the chance to study other things more than some BFA programs allow.</p>
<p>I think all of the above points are spot on, but want to mention that at least some BA Theatre performance programs are capped, so students must apply and be admitted specifically to the major. That is the case at NU (though non-majors can participate in extracurricular shows). I assume that in most BA programs it is simpler to transfer into another uncapped program within the same school than it might be from a BFA program, so in that sense it might be easier to “uncommit” if a student has a change of interest during college.</p>
<p>@arisamp If your S is seriously considering majoring in Theatre, whether as a BA or BFA, after having “only” had school theater experiences, and while also having a lot of other academic interests and strengths, I would suggest he consider a pre-college theatre program next summer. There are threads on this board with recommendations of specific programs, such as CMU or MPulse or Brown TheatreBridge or Northwestern Cherubs, etc., that would give him a sense of what it would be like to major in Theatre or MT or Acting, and also allow him to see how he compares to a national talent pool. And if he’s not too interested in such a summer program, then you and he probably have your answer…</p>
<p>I think @elsacc’s suggestion is great! Even as a kid with a bit more performing experience and a firm commitment to an MT career path going in, D’s on-campus summer changed her thinking about how she wanted to spend four years of college.</p>
<p>@elsacc - that was the same suggestion made by his counselor. She suggested Northwestern’s program or one at Ithaca I think. He sounded interested in trying this next summer.</p>
<p>I guess we could start by making a tentative list of schools where he would be happy participating in theater, but not a theater major. He could then add other theater specific programs if he decides to go down that path after the summer experience.</p>
<p>Showing my ignorance here with this area - but if he is applying for BA programs, do those also require auditions? Is there a list somewhere of non-audition based programs? What is the best way to find out if a given school allows students who are not theater majors to participate actively in theater?</p>
<p>@arisamp … There are a couple of ‘pinned’ posts at the top of this forum. Look for the one titled “BIG LIST of MT colleges by program type”. That one breaks down the audition / non audition / BA / BM / BFA schools. </p>
<p>@arisamp As MTmom2015 suggests, definitely look at those pinned lists. Unfortunately, time-intensive research is the main way I know of to get an answer to your questions, particularly about what performing opportunities non-theater majors have at a given school. I would glean everything you can from CC and then ask questions when you visit schools. The short answer to your question about whether BA programs require auditions is “it depends.” Generally, no, but there are programs that do require an audition, either at the time of application or after you are admitted and matriculate. Examples include American University, Fordham (not an MT program), and Northwestern’s MT Certificate.</p>
<p>Without knowing just how academically strong your S is or his other fit preferences, such as location, size and type of school, it’s difficult to suggest schools to look at. But here are a few BA Theater schools to consider, just off the top of my head (and no slight intended to any schools not mentioned here!): Northwestern, Yale, Brown, Vassar, Kenyon, USC, American (auditioned), Muhlenberg, UCLA (auditioned), Fordham (auditioned). There are also some BFA programs at strong academic schools where it is possible to double major, such as NYU and Michigan, but it is very difficult to be admitted to these programs artistically. There are some threads here about where it is realistically possible to double major. Also, some elite academic schools such as Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton are putting more resources into their arts programs now, which MAY mean that they are particularly looking for strong academic students who want to pursue the performing arts.</p>
<p>As for summer programs, now is the time to look into them, because some have deadlines in January and most require video audition and/or essay.</p>
<p>Re summer programs, cannot emphasize enough the “now” of it. Some of these programs accept on a rolling basis and odds of being accepted are greater at the beginning. Some look at grades, others, its all about the video submissions. It really just depends on the program, but earlier is better in most cases. And be prepared to spend anywhere from 1-9K, plus travel expenses, depending upon the length/school. Some do give college credit I believe. (If you happen to attend their school). If there is an “average” I’d say it is aprox. $750-1500 per week of program. This typically includes room and board. </p>
<p>nb some summer programs cost the better part of a years’ worth of tuition at a state college! (Ithaca is one of them as I recall!)</p>
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[quote} some summer programs cost the better part of a years’ worth of tuition at a state college! (Ithaca is one of them as I recall!
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<p>Summer specialty programs that are away from home are expensive, no doubt about that. I don’t think it is a fair comparison with tuition at a state college. The summer program is tuition, room, and board. The latter is just tuition. Also, state colleges are supported by the state. Many of the summer programs are private. Summer programs are expensive and not essential, though are great opportunities for full immersion and training. </p>
<p>I agree that depending on the programs, signing up or applying as soon as possible is best. This does vary among programs. For some, it is late. For some, it is still on the early side. </p>
<p>One thing to remember in all of this is that no matter how talented your son/daughter is, it is extremely hard to make a living to support oneself. Those who do are few and far between. My d runs a theater company and is performing in 2 off-off Broadway shows next month. She works as social media/arts admin for the non-profit arts center where her theater company is housed and does some coaching but she makes most of her income teaching music/movement/yoga to children, has a current yoga class 3x a week at a charter school as well as working children’s birthday parties. Most of her friends and they are four years post-college are nannies, lifeguards, waiters, work in retail/tutoring and so on to pay their rent.She has been a nanny and still babysits on occasion. She generally gets paid something when she performs but it has been as little as $20.00 for children’s theater gig for 2 hours or $500 for a vocalist gig for a week of festival performances. My office has always employed part-time actors and the majority including those supporting a family make their money not by performance but in coaching, accompanying and the very best, taking an out-of-town gig, living under the per diem reimbursement and subletting their NYC apartment. Now that is hard when you have kids and you undertake a national tour but it does pay the bills. </p>
<p>@soozievt I did not mean to quantify the value of summer programs by comparing them to a state college. Rather, I was pointing up the fact that they cost a lot of money. Money that a family may have put away for tuition. My D attended both Mpulse and another program, and both were worth every penny. That said, they put a significant dent in college savings!</p>
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though she is in a BFA with a heavy academic load so she didn’t get off Scott free on those academics either. </p>