<p>Thanks again @arwarw . I am wondering how you and all these other posters know so much about this process? Are you just a parent who has been through it? I get the feeling some other people who have posted on this and other threads are involved with colleges intimately. Just curious.
I have to say, that this post alone helps me feel that we are already ahead of,the game. She can use this information to her advantage when it comes time to apply to any school. I am also thinking that the Nat Merit Scholar friend with the amazing grades and test scores, who didn’t get into Columbia, Brown, or NYU perhaps didn’t do quite enough tailoring of her application to be considered. </p>
<p>My info comes from multiple sources. Just being on CC for as many years as I have is like getting a master’s degree in the college application process. I’ve been an alumni interviewer for Brown for 30+ years, and have gone to many workshops with admissions officers that have revealed much about the process. I’ve read many books (The Gatekeepers is a good one) and magazine articles. </p>
<p>Yes, you are getting a leg up by coming here and asking good questions early on. </p>
<p>There are many reasons why that merit scholar might not have gotten in. Sometimes it really is just rotten luck, sometimes a flaw in the application. As we’ve said before, teacher recs are crucial. Teachers who are really good at them very gently suggest flaws. A simple word like “perfectionist” can set off alarms. </p>
<p>@Lindagaf , I learned a lot from parents and students here. I really think I was exactly in your shoes two years ago. Here is one of my first CC posts then: <a href=“Starting the search - Theater/Drama Majors - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1381549-starting-the-search-p1.html</a></p>
<p>I think it sort of shows my experience helping my daughter.</p>
<p>I also learned a lot from the book A is for Admissions. Although I think some of the information is a bit outdated, for the most part, it is a great resource.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Is-Admission-Insiders-Getting-Colleges/dp/0446540676”>http://www.amazon.com/Is-Admission-Insiders-Getting-Colleges/dp/0446540676</a></p>
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<p>I think this concept of “tailoring” an application based on a stereotypical analysis of the Regional Rep’s demographics–old, young, male, female–as was previously suggested, or on a personality assessment of the Regional Rep derived from a meeting at a presentation is extremely risky. </p>
<p>Applicants, please proceed with caution.</p>
<p>First, as someone else mentioned, the Common App essay goes to all schools.</p>
<p>Second, admissions officers are pretty good at sniffing out fakes and phonies. Write with your mind, and from your heart. Be yourself. If you are not yourself in your application and you get accepted on that basis, you might find your real self might not fit in.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the conclusion that an NMS with amazing test scores and grades didn’t get into Brown, Columbia or NYU must be due to lack of tailoring really assumes a lot of facts not introduced in evidence. Take a look at these acceptance percentages from just Brown:</p>
<p>ACT 36–24.4%
SAT Math 800–16%
SAT Reading 800–18.1%
Valedictorian–18%</p>
<p><a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University;
<p>The chances for any ACT36+Val is a lot less than 50%. Holy Holistic! The reason is that Brown (and presumably other elite schools) look beyond grades and test scores. The conclusion that non-acceptance of high GPA/SAT/ACT scorers must be due to lack of tailoring of the application is unfounded and unsubstantiated</p>
<p>@fireandrain , thanks. I think she is going to be a little alarmed at the importance of teacher recs. Luckily, she has her whole junior year to try and be more of a participant than an observer in class. Thank goodness for the quiet ones though, no one wants a world full of loudmouths like me:-)
Anyway, I think after reading this, she might see the importance of opening up and cultivating her teacher/student relationships a little more.</p>
<p>@arwarw, thanks, I had a quick look at your link and will read it further. Sounds like your daughter was pretty set on a major, and I think that might be a potential problem for my daughter. She isn’t at all sure what she wants to pursue. She is very artistic and is aware of the possibility of the dual degree with RISD. She needs to get a portfolio going if she pursues that route, of course.</p>
<p>@fenwaypark, dang, nothing gets past you! Glad I am not the one applying to college:-). I wouldn’t dream of suggesting that a student put bogus stuff in an application. I am only suggesting that perhaps the merit scholar wasn’t as careful as she might have been filling out her app. In fact, though initially disappointed, she got accepted into the honors program at a fairly prestigious university and is very happy.</p>
<p>Here is another question, if you all can bear it. How do the shy kids fare when it comes to getting in to better schools, etc…? I was interested in the comment the Brown rep made about “looking for the kids that can change the class discussion, and who will be missed when they leave high school.” That will be of concern to my daughter, who feels she is not popular and not outspoken. She has friends, etc, and is happy… She would possibly not feel that the rep is referring to her with that quote. Any tips for shy kids to make themselves stand out a bit in applications or interviews?</p>
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<p>I’m sorry you missed my point on the regional reps. I attempted to clarify in a subsequent post - poorly, I’m sure. </p>
<p>I would agree that writing an application specific to Brown is extremely risky. Brown is a very unique school, and such an application may not appeal to other highly selective schools.</p>
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<p>I agree! If the essays don’t have true soul, they are likely DOA.</p>
<p>I have pride in Brown and in the Brown forum here, so I speak up when I think something is incorrect or ill-advised…such as the comment that if a high GPA, high test score applicant got rejected by Brown it must because she perhaps didn’t do quite enough tailoring of her application to the perceived preferences of her Regional Rep.</p>
<p>Applicants: Brown Admissions Officers can sniff insincerity and phoniness a long ways. They have been trained intensively to set aside personal predilections, and instead focus on the objectives of the Admissions Office. If you can slip a tailored application past them, well the joke may be on you, because the person they thought they admitted is not really you, and you might not be well-suited for the Brown experience.</p>
<p>Of course, when you write the “Why Brown” essay you will write about you and Brown–not about MIT or Stanford. I call that sticking to the topic, not tailoring.</p>
<p>And if you think you are able to effectively tailor an application based on the age or gender of your Regional Rep, or on conclusions drawn from a short rendez-vous at a reception, well maybe you should just go straight to an executive suite on Madison Ave rather than to college.</p>
<p>Brown admissions officers are smarter than you about the admissions process. Please don’t tailor to the perceived preferences of your Regional Rep. Please don’t carry away the opinion that competitive candidates get rejected by Brown because they did not tailor their applications.</p>
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<p>Linda, you may want to look at colleges that embrace and develop shy kids. I think the women’s colleges are sort of known for that.</p>
<p>Have you seen Smith? That was my favorite college campus on our tours - much more so than Brown, which I would have put maybe 4 or 5 down on the list. I love the way Smith is emeshed in the cool, funky art town of Northampton and the pond. Also, I loved their residential system and their close relationship and close proximity to four other great colleges. And the girls we met were hip, bright and nice.</p>
<p>I think the problem with Brown for a shy kid is the open curriculum. Because the kids only pretty much take classes they are highly interested in, there’s going to be a lot of vocal kids in the classroom. You may have to be very assertive to get your points across. I may be wrong, and I’m certain there are some reserved kids at Brown. Maybe a Brown student can chime in on that. </p>
<p>Many kids, even high performers, assume this is another high school sort of challenge. Write a good essay, as you would in English class. List your ECs per the hs value. But it’s really about the leap past hs. With guidance, a bright hs kid can manage the challenge. The app and supp are a self-presentation. The more you can glean about a school, other than stats-related, the more natural it can become. Just as we tell our kids to stay on their toes through various public and private situations, we should tell them to be alert to nuances through the app process. </p>
<p>Gibby often links to this <a href=“What We Look For | Harvard”>https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/what-we-look</a> There are all sorts of insights to be gleaned from that, both up-close and standing back. Each college has its own flavor, self image and values. It’s ok to like the campus or the friendly kids you meet. But think of the core or larger “match.” </p>
<p>@fenwaypark, it’s great that you share your knowledge on this forum, and I really am grateful. For the record, I only said “perhaps” not “must” and it was an idle speculation based on all I have read here. I am still trying to figure out how this all works.</p>
<p>@arwarw, again, useful, and that is something she will have to consider further along. Smith has been suggested many times, especially on my thread about “cool” colleges. We will visit for sure, along with other colleges in that consortium. We might even visit it tomorrow, after I pick her up in Boston.</p>
<p>@lookingforward, great advice again. I am American, but I never had to go through this process, and then I moved abroad for 20 years. in my time, I just wrote a check and went to my local university, which seems to have risen in status considerably since then. Not sure I would get in these days! And my husband is foreign and thus clueless.
Not sure who or what Gibby is, but I will check it out.</p>
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<p>If she likes a school, ask her to write down her impressions. Those notes will be helpful a year from now when she is applying.</p>
<p>^ Boy, that’s true. We had one school that would have been a great safety for either girl- and the only way either remembered it was by where we had that great lunch. Guess that was a big warning. Neither did apply.</p>
<p>If she’s a rising junior, this can take a lot of the pressure off. She has time to see various schools and also to review her activities. And interests. We just started with lots of casual look-see visits. After the first few, started skipping info sessions- but if they liked a school, did try to get an official tour. The tours at Brown are a bit famous for the guides who can walk backward and talk at the same time.</p>
<p>@arwarw and @lookingforward , we did take notes on our whirlwind tours a couple of weeks ago. We did a tour at Wesleyan, as it was the only college that offers weekend summer tours. I am a little dismayed to hear that they have ripped off Brown with their backwards walking guides;-). </p>
<p>How did she like Wesleyan? I really regret not visiting there and seeing that campus. We were very close one weekend. A lot of great artist and filmmakers come from there.</p>
<p>The summers are tough, because the LAC’s are so dead - it’s hard to get the full picture. </p>
<p>Hmm, tough to say. It was the first college she had ever visited, and I haven’t had any feedback yet, as we then went on to Brown and others. She is away right now. In my notes, I wrote that it felt like a comfortable old shoe, which I guess is good. I know it has a good rep. She might be concerned about access to non-campus life. Tufts also scored highly on her list. The only place neither of us liked was Brandeis.</p>
<p>Sadly, we never made it to Boston. </p>
<p>So many great colleges in the USA and so little time. </p>
<p>Many great colleges in and around Boston, no doubt. To make MY life manageable, I think once she has a decent list going, I am going going to divide her strong contenders into geographic regions. Local places which can be visited in day trips; the DC-Virginia region; Pennsylvania; and upstate NY and vicinity. Then there are a few non-driveable places which she will be considering. I can already tell you what we will be doing next Feb!</p>
<p>FYI. Brown was my daughter’s first choice. Visited the school twice both times doing tours and meeting with faculty. Was not admitted, yet admitted to two other ivies including one that most would consider a higher ranked Ivy for sure. We felt strongly she had demonstrated interest but obviously Brown felt there were better fits for the school than her. It’s a holistic process. </p>
<p>That’s sort of what we did over an 18 month period. We did a Virginia/North Carolina trip, a Rural New England Trip, an NYC trip and a Chicago Trip. I wish we could have gone to Boston and out west, but there just was not enough time - or money. </p>
<p>Enjoy the journey! </p>
<p>@Mayihelp, that is interesting. Good for your daughter.
This is obviously gimmicky, but can anyone sum up a typical Brown student with a few adjectives? I am wondering if my daughter would apply any of them to herself.</p>