How does a student "demonstrate interest" in Brown?

<p>@‌lookingforward I can tell you, the things I said about the interview process for Brown a few posts above are true.</p>

<p>Applicants should come well-prepared to interviews and try to put their best foot forward…but applicants should not stress that the interview will be anything close to a decisive factor.</p>

<p>The Brown CDS indicates that the interview is “Considered” as opposed to being “Important” or “Very Important”. Yes, the interview is considered, especially if the applicant is rude or especially charismatic, and to confirm information or impressions gleaned from the application</p>

<p>Perhaps you are an interviewer or were interviewed. In holistic, all elements are considered. No adcom has a copy of the CDS at his or her elbow and says, well, I’ll just “consider” what the interview report says. It’s eyes and ears. There are many cases where a good application is hampered by a report of lackluster interest in or knowledge of a college. Or, where a fence app comes to life in the interview report. And much in between. Some schools will tell you the interview is purely informational, a mini info session of sorts. Unless that’s stated, take it seriously. If you want to get into nitty gritty, we can PM.</p>

<p>The CDS sections about this are trying to fit holistic into X lines on a chart. A kid can learn from that, but it doesn’t represent a “formula.”</p>

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<p>Incisive observation, I can confirm.</p>

<p>Yes, applicants should not show lackluster interest or knowledge of a college at an interview for that college. I call that rudeness.</p>

<p>Applicants, don’t stress over your interviews. The interview is considered, especially if the applicant is rude or especially charismatic, and to confirm information or impressions gleaned from the application. That is the extent of it.</p>

<p>With hundreds of informally “trained” interviewers from different backgrounds, age groups, and value systems, any other methodology would be unfair. Sure, there are differences in values among members of Admissions Committees too. But the intensive training, small group environment, and focus on specific goals tends to minimize arbitrariness at the AdCom level. </p>

<p>@lookingforward, @fenwaypark, @arwarw, and anyone who has added to this, thanks all for your insight. I was also going to ask about another factor deemed “very important” in the CDS data, which is “character/personal qualities”. The same set of data determines the interview only to be considered. How does a student convey exceptional character or personal qualities without the interview? Is this something that is supposed to be incorporated into the essays?</p>

<p>As an example, my daughter feels that one quality she has to offer is her very international outlook and her “worldliness”. She has seen what life is like for those less fortunate and takes nothing for granted. She has travelled extensively around the world, her father is foreign and she was born and raised overseas. Yet she is already wary of using that as an essay topic, for example, for fear she will be misinterpreted as a “rich, spoiled” kid. How can she convey this about herself without writing an essay about it? Is this the kind of topic best brought up in an interview?</p>

<p>And if it isn’t too much to ask another question, many here have stressed the importance of meeting the regional rep. In the area where I live, the reps from all the Ivies were mobbed when they hosted an information session. I would be amazed if they remembered a single student they spoke to, as apparently about 800 students attended. How does a student make an impression on a rep? Is the best option to go on a tour at Brown so that you actually get an opportunity to shake a hand and hopefully make a good impression? </p>

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<p>I think more important then making an impression on the rep is having the rep make an impression on you. Really listen to what he or she says, write it down and ponder it. Is the rep male or female, young or old? What’s the rep like? Ask questions and take notes. The regional rep is the audience your daughter will be writing for.</p>

<p>If you want to meet the rep, know in advance of a scheduled event what he or she looks like, go early and say hello. You’re correct that after the presentation, it’s too late. The rep will be mobbed, and you will make no impression.</p>

<p>Assessment of “character/personal qualities” is derived primarily from the letters of recommendation. </p>

<p>The interview would be used to confirm (or contradict) impressions gleaned from the rec letters. If the rec letters say the applicant has bad character and the volunteer non-professional alumnus interviewer says the applicant comes across as a paragon of virtue, there might be a call to the recommender. Vice versa too.</p>

<p>In cases of irreconcilable differences, rec letters are going to outweigh alumnus interviews. EDIT: The reason being that letters of recommendation are written by teachers, or others, who know the applicant well, over a substantial period of time…while the interview report is based on a first impression 30-60 minute conversation.</p>

<p>Applicants: sweat your rec letters a whole lot more than your interviews if you are going to sweat anything</p>

<p>Be cautious with “what life is like for those less fortunate and takes nothing for granted.” It’s going to come through or not in the app (starting with activities) and a good principle is “show, not tell.” Does she do community work now? CC has had plenty to say about kids who make a declaration and don’t have more to show. Or who make big, pricey trips where they end up with a few hours of service, then return to their hotels and tours. Or small, random school club efforts just to collect hours. Local is good, ongoing, directly with those in need. The commitment can speak volumes. </p>

<p>Also, many kids today are worldy, for various reasons.</p>

<p>When you’re talking about schools with 20-30k+ apps, this ends up far more complex than possibly shaking a hand. If you can meet the rep at your high school, make a good, intelligent impression, good chance he/she will remember you. Or by heading early to a road show. But then the candidate is in control of her own app. Dig into what the colleges themselves say, learn what they like, want and need.</p>

<p>Linda, you would be amazed at the memory of those reps. They do remember many of the students – the ones who make an impression. How to make an impression: Ask questions that are not on the website. Engage them in a real conversation, about something that is not admission related (i.e., do I need to take calculus), a topic that shows some intellectual depth. Or a topic that reveals something about you. </p>

<p>Off the top of my head: Brown is really stressing its global presence. Have your daughter ■■■■■ the website, find out what Brown is doing in other countries – research, initiatives, professors. Something more than study abroad. Perhaps connected to the country she grew up in. When she introduces herself to the rep, say, “I grew up in xx and I see that Prof. Y does research with the University of X and …” and then say something that shows she reads newspapers/understands the culture/perceives the complexity of the issues. There is a real good chance that the rep will make a mental note about the girl from X. </p>

<p>Some reps visit high schools. She could get to the event really early and introduce herself before the session, or wait around to the bitter end. </p>

<p>Tours will not offer that opportunity, so that is not the right avenue. </p>

<p>There are ways to present yourself as a global citizen without writing an essay that portrays you as a rich spoiled kid. Her challenge is to figure that out. She has plenty of time for that.</p>

<p>I feel like the interview FAQs thread addresses just about any questions about the interview process one can imagine. I wouldn’t rely on the interview to introduce information that is vital to your daughter’s profile. She could get a rotten interviewer – they do exist, unfortunately. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there is no secret sauce to Ivy admission. arwarw’s daughter did her homework, but there is an equal chance she would have gotten in on the strength of her transcript, recommendations, stats and essays. Another CC poster describes the admissions process like the casting of a play. Colleges are looking for the equivalent of an 80-year-old redhead who can sing, an 10-year-old tomboy who can do a cartwheel, a 40-year-old businessman who can dance. If you fit their casting requirements, your chance of acceptance is higher. </p>

<p>@fenwaypark, thanks for that. I had no idea letters of recommendation were so important! I kind of don’t get that, in a way. Surely every teacher is going to say good things about their student? And won’t students only choose teachers they think like them? Are letters of recommendation confidential to admissions officers only? This is something my daughter is worried about, because she is quiet. She does well in school and contributes, but she sometimes thinks teachers don’t think about her because she doesn’t talk a lot.</p>

<p>@Lindagaf [url=&lt;a href=“http://marymountcollegeadmissionblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/when-recommendations-attack-worst.html]This[/url”&gt;Marymount California University's Admission Blog: When Recommendations Attack! (The Worst Letter of Recommendation We've Ever Seen)]This[/url</a>] may give you some insight on how some letters of recommendation do not help the applicant’s chances, however well-meaning the attempt may have been.</p>

<p>@lookingforward‌, she is already aware of what you mentioned. That is why she doesn’t want to use it for an essay. At the same time, she feels it is an important part of who she is. Many Americans are clueless as to what life is like outside the US, and she isn’t. She understands that the rest of the world is important too. She understands what privileged lives most Americans live. She has friends who have done expensive "volunteer abroad " trips and believes they are the most transparent means of trying to impress colleges. She volunteers locally. And we would far rather save our money for family holidays in interesting places:-).
@fireandrain‌ , great tips. Great tips from everyone, thank you! So much of this is relevant to applying to any college. I can’t wait for her to read this. </p>

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<p>Is the point that the gender or age of the regional representative should be taken into account when an applicant writes his/her college essay, and that the essay should be tailored to meet the stereotype of that demographic? How would you tailor the “Why Brown?” essay differently for a old man Admissions Officer versus an young woman AO?</p>

<p>Not sure this strategy is for everyone. I think applicants should speak with their minds, from their hearts, and let the chips fall</p>

<p>Many Americans are clueless but many are not. Worldy isn’t a tip. I know what you are trying to say, but don’t compare her simply to her local peers. elite adcoms will be looking at tens of thousands from across the country, with stats, rigor, drives, impact, plus strong personal attributes. Many, many kids have eye opening opportunities today, even poor kids. And many translate those into worthy efforts and accomplishments. </p>

<p>Best approach when looking at a single digit school is never to assume any one aspect of the entire app process is less important than another. Or that you have some special advantage others don’t. Or that your position in your one high school somehow elevates. Hedge your bets wisely. </p>

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<p>That would be a disservice to their best students. If a college sees that a teacher writes fluff, all subsequent recommendations by that teacher will be discounted. Conscientious teachers will be honest and if they have any experience at all, will support their conclusions with examples. </p>

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<p>Yes. Other considerations should be accomplishments in various teachers’ classes, track record for various teachers in having recommended students get into relevant schools. There won’t be a data base on this, just gotta work the grape vine. </p>

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<p>The entire application is confidential to the school. Some recommenders show their letters to the applicants. Too lazy to look up right now whether Brown discourages or disallows that</p>

<p>Should have posted this earlier: <a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University;

<p>Interviews</p>

<p>How important are the alumni/ae interviews?</p>

<p>The conversation you will have with a graduate of the University is just one aspect of your Brown application. Our alumni/ae write to us about the strengths they see in candidates based on one relatively brief encounter. Rarely will an interview be the determining factor in an application. We suggest that you view it as an opportunity to learn more about Brown and to further convey your best qualities as a student and person.</p>

<p>Bold added</p>

<p>My gawd, don’t tailor to the regional adcom. There are multiple readers, including other reps, and all are smart, well educated, and know the college well, on multiple levels, know the sorts of kids who thrive academically and contribute on campus. The common denominator is this knowledge and commitment. But they may have their own differences in experiences, perspective. You have to capture the group. One significant point in having multiple reads is that each adds his/her own perspective, may capture something (positive or negative) that the rep didn’t. </p>

<p>Let’s talk about fluff. Many teachers proclaim their love for the kid, then veer off into ECs and forget the intellectual. Time and again they say, “smiles, takes good notes” - which are little help. Start with teacher related to the possible course of study at the college. Recent teachers. How much they like you-- while that’s nice, adcoms are looking for college relevant points. </p>

<p>The boarding schools are a good example where nearly every LoR comes through positive. Still, there are ways to identify when they are really promoting one kid over others.</p>

<p>Don’t forget the Common App goes to all colleges you apply to. Only the supp is college specific.</p>

<p>Let’s make this simple. OP’s daughter needs a deeper view of what each college is about and looks for. When she has this fuller view, she will be able to better match herself and then show that via her app, in different ways in different sections. Show, not tell. Once this legwork is done, the questions will evolve.</p>

<p>@lookingforward‌ , bear in mind that I am not my daughter. Knowing her, she might well disagree with everything I say. Anyway, thanks to all of you, this has been very enlightening. I think it is fair to say that everyone has a different perspective. It will be up to her to figure out this process, convey what is important, and how to put herself forward in the best fashion. This post will definitely provide some useful guidance.</p>

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<p>No. My point (admittedly, poorly made) is that the Brown regional rep is a real live human being - not an institution, committee, robot or a computer. The reps are going to bring their own life experience to the decision. Therefore, I think it’s a good idea to try to get to know (at least a little bit) the person who may or may not advocate for you in the committee. I think, at this level, it’s a highly personal process. Read the Gatekeepers <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/The-Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier/dp/0142003085”>http://www.amazon.com/The-Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier/dp/0142003085&lt;/a&gt; or check out this short clip: <a href=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-OLlJUXwKU”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-OLlJUXwKU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>When we attended a small local gathering of admitted students it was obvious to me our Brown regional rep knew very well all the students - their names, high schools, activities and stories. He talked to my daughter at length about her essay and her EC’s.</p>

<p>But this is a minor point, and I’m certain plenty of kids get in to Brown without knowing who the heck their rep is. Much more important is the quality of the entire application package including teacher recs, which I think are of utmost importance at this level of selectivity.</p>

<p>Linda, here are some good articles on the letters of recommendations: </p>

<p><a href=“How to write good letters of recommendation | MIT Admissions”>http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/writingrecs&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“The Art of the College Recommendation Letter - The Atlantic”>The Art of the College Recommendation Letter - The Atlantic;

<p>Again, my daughter listened to what the Brown regional rep said he was looking for, and then asked her teachers that to the extent they felt she had some of those qualities, would they please mention it and elaborate with specific examples. Some of the things the rep said included:</p>

<p>“Looking for kids with insight and initiative to change the direction of the classroom discussion”
“Seeking applicants whose high schools will miss them the most”
“Looking for kids who challenge themselves outside the classroom”</p>

<p>Also, she did ask her teachers well ahead of her school’s deadlines, so she could get ahead of the wave of other kids asking for recommendations. </p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

<p>Just some food for thought - If in your own research, you began to realize a particular school is too much of a long shot - try not to let your daughter get too heavily invested - and perhaps try to steer her in a different direction. My daughter really wanted to make a run at The Juilliard School, but I knew from my own research that acceptance was highly improbable, so I eased her in to those discussions. It was not easy - there were some tears.</p>