How does Middlebury stand out from Williams, Swarthmore, Tufts.....

Parents Forum
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@3emigos, My son looked at all of the schools on your son’s list except Middlebury, so I can’t help with that comparison. I don’t remember why Middlebury wasn’t on the list. (I think it was because he was looking for strength in visual arts.) If your son likes Williams and Hamilton, then I would think a visit to Middlebury would be worthwhile.

He applied to Williams ED, was accepted and had a great four years. We’ll never know which of the others he might have been accepted to but his top choices would have been Williams, Hamilton, Wesleyan (and Kenyon). Culturally, Swarthmore and Haverford weren’t his cup of tea. And Tufts? I think it was crossed off the list because it was less LAC-like than the others. He lives in Boston now and would agree it’s a great college town. Williams and Wesleyan are actually quite different culturally --Wes is more activist, Williams more middle road – but they both appealed. Sometimes, there’s no good reason; it just clicks.

For my son, Williams’ insular mountain setting was a big plus. He wasn’t involved in any organized team sport, but took full advantage of the outdoorsy activities. I wouldn’t call Williams kids jocky, but they are certainly active. My son liked Hamilton for the same reason, though Hamilton is smaller and even more isolated. [To clarify: Williams has an enrollment of around 2100 students, so smaller than Middlebury and Wesleyan, and larger than the others.]

Other points of differentiation that might make a difference are Winter Study, the residence hall entry system, the Tutorial Program and a pervasive emphasis on music and visual arts. For my son, these were major positives, along with the many outdoorsy activities offered by the Williams Outing Club.

Williams has a superb environmental program, with majors in Environmental Science and Environmental Policy and a concentration in Environmental Studies. It also offers majors in Political Science and Political Economy with a synergistic connection to the graduate program at the Center for Development Economics. Double majoring is fairly common.

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Your son has great choices, congrats to him.

Not sure which to pick. Williams & Swat are a hair above the others reputationally, to me , but the others are great too.

Based on my D1s experience at a different LAC I suggest you check course offerings in areas of likely interest, and # professors in a department. Look at course catalog and see how many of courses of likely interest are listed as “offered every other year”. And check list of registrar’s list of courses and see how many, in areas of most likely interest, were actually given over the last two semesters. If your kid gets interested in one particular sub-area in a department, and come senior year the one prof who teaches that course (if they offer that subarea) takes a sabbatical, or the school hasn’t renewed the one visiting Prof who had that interest, your son might be screwed.

Based also on D2s experience I have come to feel that small school in a small area can be an unhappy combination.
Kid can get bored. Mitigated mightily, or even superceded, by the extent to which your kid fits in well with the prevailing campus culture.

I toured Tufts with my son, and loved it. But I’ve come to prefer universities. Your son evidently has a different mindset.

Swarthmore has access to Philly, so one can escape. But it is itself teeny, 1,600 students. It has the consortium in a pinch, which is good to extend course offerings. Though that works best for Haverford/Bryn Mawr, as I understand it.

Haverford is even smaller. though it’s got this “thing” going with Bryn Mawr. Someone who favors that combined M/F ratio might like it there socially, if nothing else.

All my kids really liked Wesleyan.

My D1 went to a school that was 50 minutes from a bigger city. It was nice to have that escape, and she did use it on occasion. But it was not easy to get there other by driving, so they rarely did go there. The good side of that was that the campus was not reduced to nobody on weekends. It’s a tradeoff. The easier it is to get to a bigger area to do stuff, the more stuff there is to do. But that increases the chance that the campus itself is stripped of vitality. Especially on weekends. That’s from the experience of my girls at two different LACs that are not any of these, so just saying your son might look into this at each place, if he cares.

If I were your son I would assume most of the schools listed will be rigorous academically, not just Swat. Years ago they used to publish average GPAs at various schools, and a number of these were scraping around the more rigorous end. Though I do recall Swat being among the toughest. At that time, which was quite a long time ago. But I recall that Williams and Middlebury were also quite tough, by that measure at least. There was a CC poster who transferred from Tufts to my alma mater, Cornell, and he said that Tufts was tougher. But he also transferred to a relatively easy major at Cornell, so who knows.

I guess if it were me, and I was dead-set on an LAC: IF (and only if) I thought I fit well with the other kids who were going there, and if the course investigation turned out favorably, I might favor Swat. Due to the safety valves of the consortium and Philadelphia access to extend its effective size in a pinch. But not without reservations.

And anyway that’s just me. so many good choices, certainly this is one where reasonable people may differ.

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Thanks so much everyone for all the responses!! Really appreciate the input especially about the strength of Midd’s envi sci program. @doschicos …he’s visited all the schools except Midd… I think student body wise ( Crunchy, preppy, jocky, social justice issues, liberal, moderate, outdoorsy, artsy,) he would do well with a mixture; Location wise a while back it seemed being near a city was important. I thought he would be our “big university” kid, but it didn’t become a focus. He’s waitlisted at Penn and Cornell but certainly not counting on them at this point. Penn would seem to fill that big city feel for sure, but his visit there was just so so. We fell asleep during the info session, his class visit was in a building that felt like an old high school, however the professor impressed him and that was the savior. A jewish community is also important to him which all of his admits have, but he is also interested in having a Chabad nearby. We’re not religious, but he was active with them in high school (as well as his other jewish youth group) and would like one at least within reach (half hour away tops)

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Wesleyan definitely deserves a visit. Of all the colleges in contention, it is the only one within walking distance of a functioning business district complete with a three-star hotel, many restaurants, a few bars (for those over 21) and a Starbucks. Granted, it starts shutting down around 6 o’clock, but, in terms of urbanity, it is probably only one step down from Tufts. Not sure I understand @merc81 's fixation on quads. Wesleyan’s main campus is one big quad.

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Sorry, for the cross-post, @3emigos. In answer to your question, the nearest Chabad to Middlebury appears to be in Burlington which is not too bad:

http://www.chabad.org/centers/default_cdo/aid/117736/jewish/Chabad-of-Vermont.htm

At Wesleyan, it would be steps away from campus:

http://www.chabad.org/centers/default_cdo/aid/1556584/jewish/Chabad-Wesleyan-University.htm

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@circuitrider : I’d ask you that you not suggest I have a “fixation” on quadrangles, as I find this insulting. The fact that I used quads as an indicator of the degree of traditional appeal of Wesleyan’s campus (which I know well) should be clear enough to the OP and others reading through.

However, if you believe the football field in the center of Wesleyan’s campus serves as the de facto aesthetic equivalent of a traditional collegiate quadrangle, the forum certainly allows you the opportunity to offer that opinion.

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Tufts is my favorite on your list :slight_smile:

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Wow,@merc81. I did not mean to insult you. Just seems that saying there are no traditional quadrangles at Wesleyan is an exceptionally blanket statement to make, especially when it isn’t true. The Butterfield residences are built around a quad; The Fauver Field residences are built around a quad. The front of Brownstone Row is essentially a quad. I’d cite pictures, but the TOS have a rule against doing that.

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@merc81 How do you know Wesleyan well? Were you a student there?

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I second @eclpts statement. S18 and I attended the Solid Sound festival years ago and are returning this year. If you like Wilco, it is a great, casual festival set inside the amazing MassMOCA.

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Unfortunately, Solid Sound happens when most students are off campus in the summer. But you can look at a music lineup here: http://massmoca.org/performances/

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@circuitrider : Your assurance that you did not intend to insult me certainly satisfies any issues there as far as I’m concerned.

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@doschicos : Please do not tag me again.

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@merc81 Just trying to clarify what your connections are to these schools as you opine. I’m a parent. Are you a parent, student, alumnus/a, high school student?

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OP: Midd graduate here … poly sci at Midd is very strong as is its environmental sciences major. I believe Midd was the first school anywhere to offer an environmental sciences major. Its new science center is a terrific building. Science are strong and there are great research opportunities. As noted upthread, Midd is known for foreign languages, but all of its programs are strong. Its location is fantastic for outdoor sports like cycling. Its athletic facilities are considered the best among NESCAC schools. It is definitely worth a visit, even considering all the great options your kid has on the table. Good luck!

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@monydad

Wasn’t saying the other colleges weren’t rigorous academically. Just that within the group of academically respectable/elite colleges, Swat is much more so than the rest in that particular group…like UChicago, Reed, Cornell, Gtech, and MIT/Caltech/CMU/Harvey Mudd.

With that being said, none of the HS classmates or colleagues who attended Middlebury, Tufts, Harvard, Wesleyan, Williams or other peer colleges recounted having the intensity of academic rigor/quantity of workload their counterparts at schools like Swat had.

It’s especially interesting when compared with Midd as while it does have a respectable workload, everyone I knew who attended Midd recounted having a well-balanced and relaxing 4 years…including the HS classmate and fellow HS slacker who was miraculously given fall admission despite having such a low HS GPA everyone including HS GCs and he himself assumed his application was a guaranteed rejection. Instead, he had a well-balanced and relaxing 4 years, did well there, and is now a practicing attorney.

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FWIW I doubt Cornell belongs on that list- Or rather, if it does, a lot of other schools do too. Including some of these, most likely. But that’s an OT digression for another venue.

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@doschicos, I went to school in the Combat Zone so I won’t be very much help to the OP.

Hamilton is not far from the Adirondacks. It has a strong and varied club sports program too. The nearest big cities are Syracuse, Albany, and Utica.

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If you are asking about Jewish life in general- combined with an active Chabad presence, Tufts is the hands down winner of your list. If/when you need to add Penn or Cornell, come back to us. But if your son wants an engaged and active Jewish community, he will have to work hard at it at some of the colleges on this list.

Not that he can’t of course. But Middlebury to Burlington is not a “drop in for coffee some afternoon when you have a break” distance.

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@TonyK Do you still live in the area? It’s amazing how much it has changed from when we were kids! Same holds true for Boston as a whole. One of my kids finds Boston too boring because it’s not edgy (or diverse) enough.

As far as Jewish life - easily accomplished at Haverford as well.