Swat/Midd/Williams

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Trying to narrow down my search...
Prospective economics major (plus a handful of math courses; I'd like to get a PhD in econ), pretty liberal, I love diversity (primarily racial diversity, but also socioeconomic and international diversity), I want to be in a rural area with outdoorsy activities (love skiing, hiking, kayaking, canoeing, etc), good food is always a plus, not too athletic (unless you factor in skiing/other activities listed above), intellectual and academic-oriented (but I still want a social life), small classes and access to professors, a little politically active, and a wide variety of students and clubs/activities (not just preppy lax bros or just intellects or just activists; a bit of everyone I guess)</p>

<p>Middlebury--used to be at the top of my list...I love Vermont, I'm attracted to the large percentage of international students, I like its size (approx. 1,000 more students than Swarthmore), an alum once told me that it has the quirkiest (in a good way) students of the top NESCAC schools (he said it's kind of like Carleton/not really uptight), but I'm concerned about its lack of racial diversity (as well as socioeconomic diversity), endowment not as high as other schools, founded on egalitarian principles--one of the first schools to graduate an African-American student, one of the first New England LACs to become coed</p>

<p>Williams--although PhD productivity isn't nearly as high as Swarthmore, it is higher than Midd; strong math and econ, seems to have more racial diversity than Middlebury, high endowment, I like the Berkshires a lot (a little less than Vermont but still up there)</p>

<p>Swarthmore--THE place to go for Econ PhD perspectives (I think Swat produces the most Econ PhDs), most intellectual, political activity seems reasonable (more than other schools but not as intense as Wesleyan or Oberlin), apparently has awful food and so/so dorms, don't love the location, might be too rigorous--I want a challenge and I am willing to work really hard, but I also want a social life (but I'm not interested in Greek life at all); seems like the honors program is incredibly cut-throat and I don't know if it's worth going to Swarthmore if I end up not doing the honors program, best diversity of the schools but I wish it had more students (like Williams and Midd)</p>

<p>Also--I don't like Amherst--it just doesn't seem like a warm/friendly place and I want an isolated/free-standing school (not interested in consortium), Wesleyan seems too radical, Vassar is too close to home (I live 20 min from NYC), but I am open to all opinions on the schools I like as well as any schools you think I should consider or reconsider. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>I would say that if anything, the Honor’s program is even less than cut-throat than the rest of Swarthmore. The small size of the classes and the seminar format mean that the students are a huge resource for eachother, and to some extent the more one person puts in, the more everybody puts out. When it comes time for preparing for honors exams, without exception students work together (even in classes that were the year before) - there is not feeling that people compete for higher honors marks. </p>

<p>The differences in social life are a bit hard to describe without visiting, but Williams has quite a bit more of the pretty lacrosse thing than Swat or Mid, Mid, because of its location has a bit, but is quite diverse internationally, and swat I guess will always have some but it is very much not the prevalent type on campus. </p>

<p>The Williams econ department before the econ crash produced a whole lot of investment bankers, and to some extent there was a feeling on camplus that this was THE career to strive for and other careers were for ibanking rejects. I think this has changed somewhat since the crash, but not 100% and I don’t know what the economy’s slow return has done. Best of luck! You sound like you are being thoughtful but not rigid about your college choices, and that is all you can do.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the insight :)</p>

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<p>Also, you mentioned you weren’t interested in a consortium school but realize that Swarthmore is part of the Tri-College system (UPenn, Swarthmore, and Haverford). I would say that TriCo is less consortium-like than the 5 College System (just my opinion), but a group of schools that share resources nonetheless.</p>

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<p>BostonBoy, I know this is getting rather nitpicky, but the Quaker consortium has Bryn Mawr, not Penn! Students may, however, cross register at Penn. </p>

<p>I am really interested in seeing other opinions on this thread! I think it’s a lot others can relate to.</p>

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<p>Other than the rural area with hiking, kayaking, skiing, canoeing, I think Swarthmore is the place for you. If you get in you will be able to do the work. The atmosphere is not cut-throat, especially honors. I did econ honors and got in to a top 5 econ PhD program. I wouldn’t say Swarthmore’s food and dorms are awful, but they are probably not the school’s best features.</p>

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<p>It seems like you’re set on LACs.</p>

<p>But (as an alumnus), I think you can do much better at universities for Econ PhD preparation. </p>

<p>This issue is kind of complicated, but in general I say this is because Swarthmore’s econ program isn’t very well suited for preparing “today’s” competitive econ PhD applicant. [Please note that all that I write is that which I believe to be true on average.] I’ll explain what I mean soon. Today’s competitive PhD applicant (to get into top 5) generally has majored in mathematics, physics, or CS (and has supplementary math) and has taken at least a few PhD courses in Economics, Mathematics, Physics, or something else quantitative. Most students at top programs have masters degrees, for instance. </p>

<p>This is not so good for Swarthmore’s Econ program because the honors major is pretty demanding, and doesn’t very easily accommodate the collection of “sufficient” prerequisite mathematics to start doing “serious” economics. I concede that most honors students are honors econ math/stat minors, but I claim that the amount of math allowed by the math/stat minor is not “sufficient.” Moreover, a few of the professors are more interested in the “softer” parts of economics, which apparently isn’t in vogue these days (e.g., behavioral economics is still not exactly accepted in the discipline). Moreover, if you’re interested in finance theory (which tends to be particularly mathematically demanding), I don’t recall any professors having the quant chops to help you wade through the modern literature. </p>

<p>Finally, even if the above weren’t true, econ PhD admissions tend not to view Swarthmore Honors (at least in the sciences and economics) courses as highly as they do intro PhD courses that many of our counterparts take at good universities. So the Swarthmore aspiring Econ PhD is left with two problems: (1) The honors program doesn’t have (what I view to be) “optimal curricula” for top Econ PhD placement and (2) Econ PhD admissions do not view the Honors program as highly as they do intro PhD courses, which in many ways are no more demanding than the Swarthmore honors programs (but in different ways). </p>

<p>The bottom line here is that if your only interest in selecting a college is its econ placement ability right out of college, then you should <em>not</em> choose Swarthmore. Other universities have more grade inflation (e.g., Brown, Columbia, Penn) and programs that better lend themselves to the aspiring Econ PhD. </p>

<p>HOWEVER - Swarthmore is an <em>amazing</em> place. The education is really strong – the quality of the honors curriculum is probably only exceeded by undergraduate courses at Chicago or the PhD courses to which university students have access. The “intellectual atmosphere” is apparently not present at other top universities (in my and my friends’ experience) and near total rejection of intrinsic good in prevailing social norms at Swarthmore is really desirable, in my view. Indeed, you are not a robot, and the way you spend your four years matters.</p>