<p>The bottom line, we don’t get our kids into those colleges. And by “we”, I mean the families where, say, both parents are making $50,000 or $60,000 a year…and own a house, etc…we don’t qualify for meaningful financial aid (except perhaps Harvard…but who can get into Harvard) and very few of us have $150,000 to $200,000 sitting around…and if you have more than 1 child (3 in our case), you knock out the possibility. I’m stating it this baldly because i’m trying to accept it too. That said, we have friends whose daughter got into MIT. They sold their 1930s Craftsman (a beautiful home!) to pay for it and moved into a townhouse. I wouldn’t do that…but that’s how extreme some people go. </p>
<p>I grew up in a home that was literally falling down around us – and my parents saved everything for college. I remember getting electrocuted by the wiring system that my parents wouldn’t upgrade and being embarassed to have friends over because our house was dark and creepy. My parents refused to pave our driveway so that it looked like all the other houses on the street. We never had any matching dishes. My mom used our towels until they were in tatters. The front stairs of our house were falling down – and my parents were working professionals. The saving was extreme. And now, after all that fancy education, my brother and sister and I live pretty normal lives. Don’t think that every child who goes to Princeton will end up being an ambassador or winning the Nobel Prize. Most people never do. In the meantime, I want to allow my kids to grow up in a house where they’re not embarassed to have people over. (My house is so scary that my husband said that the first time I took him home he seriously considered breaking our engagement. That crazy Princeton lady who wants all the girls to get engaged when they’re in college would probably have advised my mom to break down and buy some new towels, at
least. Why pay all that money for Ivy League and then live in a house so scary it drives all your suitors away?)</p>
<p>I think somewhere upstream, it was mentioned that balance is the key. Momzie learned about the need for balance the hard way. Once the family finds its balance, they need to be clear with the kids about what it means. No need to apologize, because it’s important to teach our kids that we have lots of choices to make in life. </p>
<p>It’s really an individual and family decision as to what the priorities of a house hold are, and how the money is spent and saved, and what things are worth the focus and sacrifice.</p>
<p>In our society, it makes for a tear jerk story on how mom scrubbed stairwells and the family ate sparingly so that the kids could go to college. To some degree, in some situations, where the alternate life path is likely to be pretty grim, it’s one thing. But, do use some common sense in applying this model to ones self. </p>
<p>My father has been dead for more than 30 years, and I still can wring a tear out when I think about him. A generous, strong, gentle man who loved his children , his family ever so much. He’s one of the quiet, silent heroes that never did any amazing to be written up in a story. But he was someone very special, not just to me and my family, but to most anyone who knew him. He worked hard at his job and went above and beyond to help others. The very idea of putting him in a situation where I should want something not easily affordable and requiring more stress, more work from him is appalling to me, even now. He died so young, so unfair, I so wish my children could have known him, that he could have lived to see his children grow up and make their way. Oh, how I wish. But I am so glad that in those last few years of his life, none of us gave him the pain and stress of having to work extra, borrow, worry, or say no to us, which he hated to do. I would get no pride out of saying that he took a second job and a third to pay for us to go to prestigious, expensive schools or anything. I get some solace that he left this world feeling that he had done well in providing for his family and that he had a balanced life. </p>
<p>The same with my mother. A whole other story there. But, no, I would not for the world, have had her take a job, and for her it would have had to have been a menial one, to pay for my education or wants. </p>
<p>And I know my children feel the same way about their father and me.</p>
<p>Just want to add, that the original topic of this thread suggested that the middle class could not afford Ivies and other very select schools. And a major point is that the “middle class” DOES get aid at those schools, not just aat Harvard, though theirs is probably the most generous. As I said above, when our income became real (not CC) middle class, Columbia came through with generous aid. My D went to a top LAC; at the time we were full-pay (different lives then), but she had middle class friends with middle class incomes who got aid, because it was one of the forty or so “meets full need” schools. Would this be true at all privates? No. But that is not what the thread was originally discussing.</p>
<p>For us the Ivies were cheaper then UVA in state. </p>
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<p>Yes. They are. And the reason, as Vctory says, is:</p>
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<p>Parents feed into this starting at an early age, when they fail to set limits and fall into the “everyone gets a trophy” trap. It’s JUST TOO HARD to say no, or realize that Jonathan is not a prodigy or that Ashley is not going to be the first (or second:) female president. </p>
<p>If I have done nothing else right as a parent, I am confident that I have taught my kids not to take anything for granted, not to think that just showing up is good enough, and never to assume that they “deserve” everything they want in life.</p>
<p>""No birthday or Christmas gifts. “”</p>
<p>Are you serious? </p>
<p>@garland</p>
<p>oops…sorry for the mistake.</p>
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<p>As hard as it is to believe most kids not only are not on CC, but they are not applying to college or only to instate or community colleges.
So don’t see the entitlement you see.</p>
<p>mom2,I keep meaning to say…your dog is the cutest little thing. I want to hold her so bad. Looks just like mine but about half the size.</p>
<p>Twogirls wrote: </p>
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<p>And thankfully your D has wonderful parents who are exceptionally thoughtful and forward looking. Regardless of the college your D attends, she will do great if she picked up the attitude and values that you have. </p>
<p>@Mom2collegekids: Yes, other than 2 years ago when I purposely bought a book for each kid for Christmas (so they couldn’t say I never bought them a gift), I haven’t bought them Christmas or birthday gifts. Other relatives may have done so to a very limited extent, but we didn’t. I just asked my daughter if she wishes that we did buy her gifts. She said, “No. Isn’t it interesting that in America we seem to have holidays where we eat and spend excessively while in other countries people die from famine because their crops failed.” She went on to discuss multiple examples of famine around the world. Somehow, we were able to instill the appropriate values that we hope will guide her if and when she becomes a physician. She isn’t emotionally scarred because Santa skipped our chimney.</p>
<p>If a family is not Christian, not buying Christmas presents is quite understandable … and not all cultures buy birthday presents.</p>
<p>ESPECIALLY if a family is Christian, Christmas is not about gifts…is it? :)</p>
<p>Some religions celebrate naming day instead.
I celebrate birthdays and don’t feel that doing so means we are any less altruistic for it.
One of the joys in life is giving to others, and it doesnt always have to be practical.
Life is too short for that.</p>
<p>I agree with those who have used the word " balance," although to be honest this " balance" will not allow us to spend $55,000+ a year on college without taking out loans. We make a decent salary ( therefore don’t qualify for FA at most schools) and would have had to live a very " bare bones" lifestyle for about 18 years. That’s not balance and if I gave my kids a choice I do not think they would have given up sports, birthday parties, etc for four years at an elite school. My older daughter attends an affordable in state school that she loves. She chose it over privates that gave her merit to bring the price down. My current junior is a high stats kid and I am hoping she gets merit as well to a school she loves. An Ivy League education is not in the cards for her unless she happens to get into Princeton ( doubtful) but that’s ok. She will be successful wherever she is planted because that’s her personality. She is highly driven and will take full advantage of any opportunity she has. </p>
<p>Thanks to the poster who had some kind words to say about me ( furry?). I am sorry that I forgot who it was and I am too tired to go back and look! </p>
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<p>Same here. The big splurge we have every year is our week long family vacation to exotic places like the Jersey Shore or NC’s Outerbanks. And that family vacation is so important to all of us, but particularly the kids. It’s the stuff of beautiful childhood memories. I wouldn’t change a thing. I prefer to look at the Ivies not so much as unaffordable but as not really wanting families like us. They want families from our income bracket who put a higher value on the prestige. And that’s ok.</p>
<p>No birthday or Christmas gifts, and you could pay full pay at Harvard/Princeton?
FrugalDoctor, that’s not being “frugal”.
(For the record, I appreciate your other posts, but I felt really terrible for your kids.
There’s a difference between not giving in to a child’s whining for random gifts, and
depriving them of Christmas and birthday gifts, which, yes, even very very poor people
manage to find, even if it’s just symbolic, cobbled up together, from a church or from a thrift
store. Gift-giving and receiving is very important to
building character, as much as not getting something.)</p>
<p>An overriding theme I see he among many posters is that many parents went without so their children could go to their ‘dream’ school. When doing the analysis, the Ivies do not produce significantly more potential income than other good schools for the same major. In other words, the ‘brand’ is not worth the cost. So the parents end up in a tougher spot financially (especially those with more than 2 kids). The burden could then be back on the kids when the parents cannot afford retirement or need long-term care. </p>
<p>Instead, help your kids understand the value of what they spend. Ego is a big reason many want to go to these schools and want their kids to go…“My son/daughter goes to xyzIvy school”. Parents don’t want to disappoint their kids. I get it. I just think that if you set reasonable expectations early and you educate your kids about the cost benefit analysis the kids who can get into these schools will understand. The really smart ones pity the kids whose parents took our jobs and mortgages to get them into schools they really could not afford. Rather than enriching their lives, these over-hyped, over-priced schools create financial and emotional baggage for way too many people.</p>
<p>If you are those parents, i am not judging. We all make our own decisions. This post is for those who are yet to decide. Think long and hard about the true value before you spend that kind of money.</p>