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<p>The AP people say that anyone should be allowed to take AP if they so choose. <<<</p>
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<p>Is this said somewhere on Collegeboard website? I know that this would probably help many who face this every year at signups. </p>
<p>Again, I wish teachers weren't punished for kids who don't pass the test so they wouldn't fear signing kids up. (I know not all schools "punish" teachers, but it does seem to happen and I don't blame teachers for being afraid of such.)</p>
<p>Calmom: Some schools will add a second class and split 40 kids into 2 classes of 20 (or whatever). Our school will offer any class that at least 5 kids sign up for. (In some states, class size isn't legally limited in high school - remember the L.A. teacher who taught calculus to classes of 65 kids?)</p>
<p>Funny, my son had a teacher he clashed with in 11th grade as well for English & got a C. They still let him take AP English & he is fine in it. Is there any way you & your child could speak with the administration about your son being allowed to take AP English? At our school, parents & student can meet with the assistant headmaster & other relavant parties where there is a disagreement about scheduling/courses. It might be worh a try if your son wants AP English--I'd try it for sure.</p>
<p>At my school, if you didn't meet the basic requirements, you could take a placement test, that was essentially a portion of an actual AP exam. I think you had to get a 3 to be allowed in.</p>
<p>kathiep: I don't mind the summer homework because there is soooo much material that must be covered. I do "feel" for the teachers....after all, they have to prepare kids for an exam that they have NO control over. Totally different than a typical hs class or even a college class!</p>
<p>However, I do think that the summer homework must be relevant.</p>
<p>At our school, is is well-known that APUSH is easier than reg USH (even tho same teacher!) because the reg class has a lot of "busy work" and "group assignments" which most hate to do.</p>
<p>just keep in mind that theres more going on in teachers minds than getting 'punished' if not enough kids pass the test. most actually want whats best for the kid... and usually know what would be best better than parents or the kids themselves. further, they also know what happens when anyone and everyone is allowed to take an ap class: it will inevitably slow down and the less it slows down, the worse the grades will become at the bottom of the class.</p>
<p>ive lived through this as a student. people keep wondering why ap classes dont really prepare students well for college. well, nearly all of them are watered down. the one i took that wasnt was the one nobody at my school wanted to take... we had SEVEN people in ap government at the end of the year because it was actually DIFFICULT. there were nearly 30 in ap english.</p>
<p>ive also lived through this as the child of an ap teacher who refuses to water things down. im sure many of you would be surprised at how many angry (and sometimes verbally assalting) calls my dad used to get when 4.0 sally (who my dad knew wouldnt be successful) and all of her friends got c's on their report cards. needless to say, our phone number is now unlisted. </p>
<p>i dont mean to single anyone out. i dont know any of your children and thus have NO idea about their 'ap' potential. but i honestly dont see any fairer way than to let the teachers decide. basing it on grades would have kept me, one of the strongest math students in my schools history, out of ap calculus. and there really isnt proper data available to take the testing route. and opening the classes up to everybody is probably the worst thing you can do. it really DOES hurt everybody else in the class.</p>
<p>I think your points are well-taken. At our kids' HS, students that take the AP classes are aware of what is expected & know the class will NOT slow down for anyone. In many cases, our instructors are part of the national committee the decides the AP curriculum & helps determine the test, so they do have good insight about the material covered & believes it is appropriate & know what it takes for the kid to get through it.
I am glad our school allows students & families the opportunity to meet with the school if they really want the AP & don't appear to "qualify." I have heard of several kids who were able to take the APs after such meetings, knowing they'd have to work hard to keep up & being willing to do so without complaint.
At our school, everyone who takes the AP class MUST take the AP exam. Most of the kids do great on the AP exams, even those who didn't do as great (mostly 5s with some 4s) for their class grades.</p>
<p>erica: >> people keep wondering why ap classes dont really prepare students well for college. well, nearly all of them are watered down. <<</p>
<p>I know that they aren't "watered" down at our school or at the local public schools. The classes are thorough and difficult (at least those that aren't referred to as "AP Lite"). Since the AP classes last a year (as opposed to one semester at college) the classes should be quite thorough. </p>
<p>If your school is offering "watered" down AP classes than it is hard to believe that many/most are passing with 3,4, & 5's. Our AP classes are not watered down. These kids do more work than if they were taking the college version. </p>
<p>A recent hs grad recently told me that he is taking Bio at college even tho he took it as an AP class (he's pre-med). The college is using the same book as our high school uses and the college did not cover as much of the book as our high school does.</p>
<p>HImom - My son is a senior now, we're just counting the days until graduation. I did talk with his guidance counselor and the Principal last year. The guidance counselor was okay with him taking the AP class as was the teacher of the AP class itself but the Principal and his 11th grade teacher decided to go by the book. I've talked to a lot of students, including my daughter, and all have said that in our school, the AP class is easier then honors english in 11th grade. Equally frustrating is the fact that the AP classes have a whole grade point ratings bump and since there is no honors english, no bump at all. Because of this particular teacher (a great teacher, btw albeit a hard grader) many kids elect to not take honors english, get an A in regular english and then get to take the AP english in 12th grade.</p>
<p>If your kid wants, s/he could self-study for AP English anyway & take & pass the exam. It's tough when the principal won't allow the kid to take the class, even tho the kid, GC & family want it. Is there any other avenue of appeal at your school? Can you child do anything to convince the principal of "readiness" for the class.</p>
<p>The GPA weighting does add another dimension to APs--that's how my son was able to boost his GPA for senior year, since he took only APs & marching band (they are a boost at his school too).</p>
<p>Our school won't let a student take the AP exam if they don't take the class. I can't get an answer why this is so. It hasn't been an issue for my boys so I haven't pushed it, but it makes no sense, unless they're just afraid that it will deflate our AP pass rate. </p>
<p>This spring at AP sign up time, there were 63 students trying to take a class that allows only 25 students. The teacher teaches other things the rest of the day, so adding 1 or 2 more classes isn't an option. Provided a student met the qualifications (60 of the 63), it was first-come first-served. This policy was NOT announced ahead of time. Because he didn't know of the policy, my son turned in his sheet at lunch instead of before school and can't take the class this fall. </p>
<p>This sounds VERY unfair. My son had to check & was allowed by the school to take the 2 APs exams he wanted to even tho he never took a course for either. Self-study APs are an option at most schools--don't understand your school's position at all. It also sounds very unfair as to how they chose which kids were "entitled" to take the AP class. Seems like they should open up more classes since so many kids want the class. <sigh></sigh></p>
<p>This was a pretty significant issue at our school last year. We had many more students interested in taking AP classes than spots in those classes. All the interested students had met the exisiting prerequisites and obtained the necessary teacher signatures. Consequently, the school allowed the computer scheduling program to "decide" who was assigned the courses, though I believe seniors did get preference. But what happened was that some extremely capable students were shut out of certain classes (AP Bio especially) while allegedly less qualified students got their choice. One parent I spoke to, for example, claimed her daughter had high interest and ability in science as demonstrated by her attendance at the Columbia University science program, but was refused AP Bio. Others claimed that children taking the less popular foreign languages got shut out of the math and science APs since the computer could work better around the Spanish students. Some parents of the denied students totally flipped out on the administration because of course they understand the implications for college admissions. I don't know how it got resolved, but for the upcoming academic year there is an application process. But I do know for a fact that the AP calculus teacher had definitely pre-screened by conveniently avoiding giving out textbooks and summer assignments for certain students he didn't think would do well. He just kept telling them he ran out and to come back the next week. They were white girls. So the poster who suggested getting race and gender statistics is on to something!</p>
<p>I've read of folks who have requested & been able to take AP exams at schools other than their "home school" (like when the student is traveling at the time for an academic competition or other reason). If your kids' HS doesn't allow him/her to take the exam at the HS, you could check with the national AP folks & find out other schools in your area that administer the exam & might allow your student to take the exam there (paying the fee & registering there, of course). This is another option that can be explored where your school is uncooperative, sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>At my sons school , all juniors are required to take English and the US History at the AP level. Thus all students in the grade are enrolled in these courses and all are encouraged to meet their fullest potential. All take the AP exams in these subjects</p>
<p>I agree they should open more classes, but there just aren't enough teachers who can teach AP. Or so they say, and I tend to believe it. However, I do believe they could find teachers to teach the "other" non-AP classes that the AP teachers also teach. But in some cases, such as English or Calculus, the teacher is already teaching a full day of AP classes. </p>
<p>A motivated student could probably get the "no class, no test" policy changed. But from what I've seen, the kids at our school who might want to fight this tend to end up at colleges that don't take AP credits anyway.</p>
<p>Several years ago one boy actually did try to get this policy reversed to no avail. He wanted to take an AP foreign language test for a class our school has never offered. He found a private school within driving distance that offered the class and they agreed to let him take the test there. He simply missed a 1/2 day of school and took the test there.</p>
<p>Our district has relatively strict AP course policies. First, only juniors and seniors are normally permitted to enroll in AP classes. There are provisions which allow sophs to enroll under very special circumstances. Second, students are permitted to take only 3 AP courses per year. The district does this because the work loads are extremely heavy for all AP classes and to take more than 3 AP's in addition to 3 or 4 other academic courses would be onerous.</p>
<p>As a result, students rarely get closed out of their AP course choices. When this occurs however, seniors are given priority. The junior(s) bumped are chosen based on the number of other AP courses they have scheduled(a junior with only that one AP class scheduled will never be bumped) and then overall gpa.</p>
<p>The district has also gradually increased the number of AP sections in the more popular courses like AP History, English L&C, Calc A/B, and Psych. I think they are now up to 3 sections in USHist and English L&C.</p>
<p>Many of our APs have logical prerequisites (take Calculus before or with Physics C for example). The English AP and honors are at least partially determined on an essay test given by the department. My son was recommended for AP Eng Lit next year - he wasn't deemed good enough for AP Eng Lang this year. He's bummed he was hoping he wouldn't make it! I told him if he could find a college level (post AP Computer Science) course to take, I thought it would be okay to skip the English AP - we'll see if he does. Our school seems to be at least somewhat flexible - my kid took AP Comp Sci as a freshman - we talked to the person teaching it and the math dept head to see what the right level for him would be. He took AP Bio as a sophomore - and it wasn't an issue either.</p>
<p>Interesting that Calc is a "logical prerequisite" for Physics C. At our kids' school, as long as they've had precalc & are currently enrolled in calc (either AB or BC) they can take Physics C. The highest level of calc offered is AP Calc AB or BC anyway, which is what most seniors take. Most of the folks in Physics C are also seniors who took Physics B as juniors & liked the instructor and/or may go into engineering/physics.</p>
<p>Most of the kids at our kids HS taking APs are seniors. Juniors may take 1-3 APs & sometimes younger kids may as well, but not commonly.</p>