<p>S2 is a junior in a highly regarded suburban HS in a very prosperous county in NJ. He told me that out of 400+ kids, only 30 kids are allowed in each core subject related AP class (english, histroy, math, science related field). </p>
<p>Knowing this, most kids did not even bother to apply for "admission" into the AP classes with only 60 kids who felt they had competitive stats to qualify applying and 30 not making it. S2 was denied into the AP classes initially though he aced the honor classes (A+) in related subjects and got teachers' recommendations, and I took care of it by working with the school authorities very diplomatically.</p>
<p>Does this kind of "privileged access to AP classes" sound normal to you??? </p>
<p>If this is the case, perhaps the GC's "school report" should mention that only 7-8% of the kids were allowed into the AP classes, thus making AP class taken as a mark of honor of some sort and indication of the highly rigorous course on on a very selective basis?</p>
<p>Our school has prerequisites for AP classes but as long as you make them, and they can make your schedule work, you’re in. Often the case is that the AP may only be offered in one period so if that doesn’t work, then you can’t get it. For instance my son is taking AP computer science and it’s only offered first period, which is also band, so a band kid would have to choose between the two. </p>
<p>Our school also only has certain grade’s able to take certain AP’s. AP US history is only open to 10th graders, AP Euro is for 11th grade and AP Gov is for seniors. Since we’re a small school, I think that helps a bit with the scheduling.</p>
<p>This sounds very wrong to me. In our local HS, there were no limits set on how many students could take any AP class and in fact students were encouraged to take at least one.
What is the school administration’s rationale for this?</p>
<p>It is so wrong! I suspect it’s a matter of resources, but it’s still wrong.
Our hs had the opposite problem, namely encouraging as many students as possible to take AP. The bar for qualifying was set really low and could even be dispensed with by talking to the teacher. Still, there continues to be a real SES/ethnic division in this highly diverse high school. But the school runs multiple sections of several APs</p>
<p>It happens at our school (which is very small -only about 350 kids in the whole HS).It is a very rigourous college prep school. My son (with a 3.75 WA) was only allowed to take one AP course in each of 10th and 11th grade and I was told that was the norm, although he took a lot of honors classes. This year (12th grade) he is taking 4 AP courses. So he will have 6 AP classes by the time he graduates. It appears they only let 12th graders and a very select few underclassmen take a full load of AP courses.</p>
<p>I believe they do it, in part, because we have a very high pass rate on the AP exams (85%-100%) and they want to keep it that way. At the local public schools, where there is no gatekeeper on AP courses, entire classes will fail to pass certain AP exams. Really, when you think about it, putting a bunch of high school kids in college-level courses without pre-screening them doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. </p>
<p>I do plan to ask the GC how they address with the colleges. I’m curious about this same question myself and would love to hear others experiences with the whole AP thing.</p>
<p>There is pre-screening and pre-screening. It does not make sense to screen out someone who had an A in the previous class.
I did think that the threshhold for AP was set too low, but the policy was designed to encourage kids, especially minority kids, to take APs and to try to do their very best. It worked in some cases and not in others.
I also think it’s wrong to restrict the number of APs each student can take per year. What each student is capable is such an individual matter.</p>
<p>I am planning to have a meeting with a GC and ask him about whether the school discusses this on the school report form. this school does not even offer AP class until junior.</p>
<p>I don’t believe the resource is a problem. This is a very prosperous school district with some very very expensive homes (not mine, thank goodness, McMansion is not part of my dirty fantasies) with hefty property tax and a vibrant base of commerce. Perhaps they are doing it to maintain stellar AP exam results, who knows.</p>
<p>S1 went to a regional magnet school with 60+ kids with where all freshman/sophomore classes were regarded as honors, and many sophomore and most of the junior and senior classes were regarded as AP equivalent, a lot of which automatically came with college credits from a local college. So, this whole academic navigation through a public school with S2 is a new experience to me…</p>
<p>Exact same policy in our school. They must be following some type of guidelines.</p>
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<p>I agree but on the other hand, if a school has a low pass rate on the AP exam, then they didn’t screen enough. A student should be able to at least pass the ‘final’ exam. An “A” at one school is not necessarily the same as an “A” at another. At son’s school you are also required to take a test to gain admission into a lot of the AP courses.</p>
<p>I think that the pass rate of AP exams is one way that colleges determine the rigor of a HS. They have a whole paragraph on our school profile about the pass rate of AP exams in our school.</p>
<p>How can a high school keep a kid who got A+ in the honors pre-requisites and got the teacher recommendation be denied the ability to take the relevant AP class? Who IS the administration allowing to take AP classes if a kid like that couldn’t get into one? These sorts of issues are what drives me nuts about gatekeeping.</p>
<p>If a high school runs rigorous honors classes, at least these kids have a reasonable alternative. At our school (like Marite’s, very ethnically and SES diverse), not taking the AP or honors class can put you into a class where teachers have to spend more time trying to keep order than in teaching material. That puts kids who are not quite AP material in a bind.</p>
<p>The resource that is most valuable and in shortest supply are teachers who are able and “accredited” to teach AP subjects (however the AP determines that a teacher is qualified to teach the subject).</p>
<p>I have found that the biggest factor affecting the pass rate for AP exams at our school is the quality of teacher and how they prep the kids for the AP test, not only during the school year, but at after school review sessions as the time of the test nears.</p>
<p>The history teachers do the best job at prepping and have the highest pass rate and highest number of 5s.</p>
<p>My kids’ large suburban public high school allows anyone to sign up for an AP class (due to block scheduling, prerequisites are often linked together as part of the same class), and haven’t suffered in AP results. Last year’s pass rate for was 83%.</p>
<p>A lot of students have weak teachers in their AP classes, but they nail the 5 because the work hard at home with AP prep books. Ensure that you Ss and Ds know that THEY are responsible for preparing for the AP, not the teachers. The teachers are just a resource. it is a tough world out there - you have got to take control of your own future.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, the student had an A in the very school that originally denied him entrance in the AP class, not in some underperforming school. </p>
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<p>Why? Is an A in this school worthless as an indicator of a student’s achievement? I can see a test being appropriate for a student who is a borderline case, wherever the border is set, but not for everyone.</p>
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<p>That was absolutely the case in our high school when a new principal decided to ditch Honors, leaving only college-prep and AP classes. In terms of class management as well as skill levels, these two types of classes are like night and day. Luckily, she was succeeded by someone who realized the folly of doing away with Honors. But the push for more students to take AP has continued, and now, weaker students are supported through AVID. I think it’s a good thing.
Schools should push students toward higher achievement, not to enable them to become underachievers.</p>
<p>Welcome to NJ…the state of the AP gatekeepers…yes, unfortunately, there are quite a number of high schools here where you have to “jump through hoops” to take AP classes…</p>
<p>Some colleges know about the “gatekeeper” schools; some are not happy about it and have responded by rejecting a large number of students from said schools; others know how rigorous the process is and acknowledge by accepting kids with few AP’s…</p>
<p>Given the current economy, it would be difficult to alienate all the mucky muck alumni that live in these towns;</p>
<p>To the OP: this is an old story, but not for you…make sure that your school profile reflects the issue before transcripts are sent out if it doesn’t already…</p>
<p>If I am correct about which school district around here that the OP’s son attends, the school board supports the policy because it keeps it’s NJ Monthly magazine ranking high by making sure AP test scores stay high by restricting who takes the AP courses.</p>
<p>This is not an unusual occurence at many competitive high schools in the Garden State</p>
<p>We had a very strange situation going on this past year at our HS concerning the AP science classes. Last spring, when students sign up for classes, word came out that only one AP science class was going to be offered, AP Bio. For various reasons, my S wanted to take AP Chemistry instead (he liked the subject better and heard, as did I, that the AP Bio teacher was so boring it was like watching paint dry.)</p>
<p>When some parents inquired, we were told that some of the administrators had determined that the colleges looked more highly upon AP Bio (as opposed to AP Chemistry or AP Physics – the latter already taken by S,) When pressed, I was told that was because AP Bio was more broad.</p>
<p>Sorry, I wasn’t one to buy that piece of swamp property answer! Next I heard them say that they weren’t going to offer AP Chemistry because it would be undersubscribed (a somewhat better excuse given the district’s budget problems.) The problem with that argument is that I got the enrollment figures for the last four years that showed more students in AP Chemistry than AP Bio.</p>
<p>Now I was REALLY not happy. So I started talking to like minded parents, since the administrators were not budging and were not even going to include it on a list of classes to select from (making it a self fulfilling prophecy, eh?) I contacted school board members. Finally, some movement. Students were somehow told if they WERE interested to come to two places to sign up for their intent. Kids, smart as they are, were lobbying each other on Facebook to do so.</p>
<p>So, what happened? AP Chemistry is offered AND, my S tells me, is oversubscribed! This is a real issue for a lab science since lab stations and safety rules related to class size cannot be ignored. So guess what, some kids are going to be bounced out. At least the teacher is going after the low hanging fruit. Any student who wasn’t ready with the assigned summer homework is being dismissed from the AP class.</p>