<p>Hi. I still can't figure out this whole self-selection thing.
How exactly hard is it to get into Carleton???? I know that is a rather subjective thing depending on the credentials of each applicant, but I'm asking in rather terms of... comparisons to other school's selectivity.
It's my impression that a lot of SUPER SMART kids turn down ivies and uchicago-likes to go to Carleton. But the admission rate is still 30% which is still a bit bigger than say Middlebury or Wesleyan. Looking at the calibre of its rigorous academics and high intellectuality, I feel as if Carleton should be wayyyyy up there... at least past Wesleyan.. but for some reason, it's still less selective?<br>
Does self-selection imply that only smart kids who are particularly attracted to that distinctive intellectual atmosphere of Carleton apply? Could that mean the whole applicant pool in general for Carleton are smarter than average? For instance, you know how kids who do not even stand a chance will throw in an application to Harvard just for the sake of it. That doesn't really happen at Carleton. I really hope someone can understand what I'm trying to say... </p>
<p>ALSO, does it help if you are an international applicant when you are applying? My bf wants to know, and he's from singapore. It seems like Carleton's been really trying to improve its diversity and the number of foreign applicants is increasing every year. So could his foreign status help him? I'm trying to convince him to apply with me... </p>
<p>Oh, I see..... thanks for the data!!
So kids in general are equally smart at those three schools...
But still, why is Carleton's admission rate higher
also why do people choose Carleton over MIT Columbia UCHIcago? I rarely see similar cases for Wes or Midd.</p>
<p>Yeah. For some reason, many people along the coasts don't have much of an opinion of midwestern schools, which probably drives up Carleton's admission rate. But hey, no complaints here. :)</p>
<p>so Carleton and Wesleyan have to accept more students to get their freshman class than Middlebury does, but they all end up with a class of similar "stats" </p>
<p>now if we had numbers on the application pool we could really make ourselves crazy, LOL</p>
<p>
[quote]
also why do people choose Carleton over MIT Columbia UCHIcago? I rarely see similar cases for Wes or Midd.
[/quote]
Exceptions, not the rule. I don't think there's a very big overlap in the people who apply to Carleton and the people who apply to MIT or Columbia, and it's nowhere near as large as the Carleton/Macalester, Carleton/Grinnell, Carleton/Brown, or Carleton/Williams overlaps. U Chicago probably has a decent overlap with Carleton because of the hardcore academic reputation and Midwestern location, but I think the schools are otherwise quite different. Most applicants would probably not love both when decision time comes around, and the U Chicago "brand" isn't so compelling as to make most people who otherwise prefer Carleton choose UofC.</p>
<p>Middlebury's PR really does a well job of promoting its school. Its selectivity has been soaring up in the last couple years. As for Wesleyan, its proximity to Boston and New York is probably what contributes to its appeal the most in comparison to Carleton's location. Carleton is really middle of nowhere AND COLD. People on East Coast also have never heard of it and assume that there isn't much prestige to the degree.</p>
<p>I second what DietCokeWithLime said. My son was accepted at both UChicago and Carleton and was attracted to them by the strong academic focus of both the institutions and the students. Ultimately it boiled down to fit and location though. He felt very comfortable at Carleton and loved the campus. He hopes to go to a school like UChicago for grad school, but this is his once in a lifetime opportunity to go to Carleton.</p>
<p>I'm afraid your Connecticut parochialism is showing. While I'd guess you've never been out to this part of the midwest, I'm surprised you're so confused by eastern geography also. </p>
<p>While Middlebury has a lovely campus in a really lovely rural Vermont location, no one who's ever visited would consider suggesting that IT is anything but a school in "the middle of nowhere and COLD."</p>
<p>Wesleyan and Carleton are a different breed. Both sit at the edges of much larger towns. While Carleton's surroundings beyond town borders are quite rural, Minneapolis/St. Paul are only about 45 minutes away. Wesleyan has a more suburban feel and is just about a half hour to New Haven - Boston and NY ("proximity"?) are both actually more than 100 miles away.</p>
<p>bingle:</p>
<p>The acceptance rate for this freshman class was just published in The Carletonian last week - 27%. No comment about yield. As far as I know, no one was accepted off the wait list again last year.</p>
<p>starbucks08:</p>
<p>In answer to your question about application numbers, please allow me this analogy:<br>
Carleton is to top northeastern LACs what U Chicago is to the Ivy League.
Both Carleton and Chicago recruit great students with great stats but in both cases self-selection and bicoastal parochialism lead to total applicant numbers that are smaller. I agree with woa and dietcokewithlime that Chicago is probably the closest university cousin to Carleton with a long-recognized significant overlap in applicants.</p>
<p>That's funny 1190 I have always been somewhat intimidated by UChicago's "im so intellectual, im so cynical, ooh im more intense than anyone else" kind of feel. Weirdly though, I really like Carleton...! </p>
<p>Eh, no one answered my question regarding internationals.</p>
<p>Boston and New York are bigger cities than than Minneapolis and St. Paul. When kids are looking into schools, I'm sure they would be much more attracted to the idea of THE NEW YORK CITY than freaking St. Paul that probably doesn't even look like a legit city next to Boston. Here on East Coast that you seem to disdain so much, 100 miles and 1.5 hours by car indicates PROXIMITY. alright dude? </p>
<p>I really wish you would stop getting offended by tidbits remarks of a mere prospective student and just leave it alone.</p>
<p>No offense was taken. But misinformation should be corrected. Tit for tat - not.</p>
<p>Sorry to add a few more lines of correction, but Northfield MN and Middlebury VT have almost identical historical temperatures throughout the year. The main difference is actually a significant amount more snow in Vermont. Middletown CT is definitely a balmier alternative, if still not exactly balmy.</p>
<p>By the way, I've lived over the years in the Northeast, Midwest, South and Southwest. The largest chunk of those years has been in the Northeast (disdain-free). 100+ miles is almost always a very, very long distance here, especially fighting nonstop construction and truck traffic on I-95. NY and Boston are great towns, but these are not reasons Wes students choose to go to school in Middletown (Wes provides a lot of other great reasons). Minneapolis-St. Paul are about 40 miles out of Carleton mostly along a highway with a 65 MPH speed limit (where cars actually travel 65 MPH). The metro area has over 3 million people. If asked, I'm pretty sure those 3 million would consider it a "legit city."</p>
<p>Most families and kids want to apply to colleges closer to where they live and given the choice and equal reputation will pick the college they know better which tends to be the one nearest to them. The population density on the east coast makes the north east schools extremely popular. </p>
<p>S's good friend was accepted to a number of LACs including Macalester which was what he liked best and Lewis &Clark which he liked next. However, the pressure was pretty heavy for him to go to one of the east coast school (one was Wesleyan) because it is a lot closer to home.</p>
<p>I've seen the same thing more times than I can count. But sometimes it's more than just wanting them nearby. California, in particular, has parents in the Midwest and out East terrified - send them off to Stanford or Berkeley and most are convinced they'll never (ever) return home!</p>
<p>starbucks08, regarding internationals, I imagine that no one's answered your question because we don't really know. In the past, I've guessed with regard to admissions and U.S. geography (my guess is that being from a far-away state helps in admissions, but I have no idea how much).</p>
<p>Regarding UChicago students vs. Carls: my impression is that UChi-ers are a bit more intense and competitive than Carls. I think both groups are seriously curious and want to be intellectually challenged, but Carls may (I say "may," I have no data) take their fun more seriously. My son applied to both schools, and after visiting his gf at UChi his first semester, he felt like Carleton suited him better (and UChi suited her better).</p>
<p>The question about internationals has an easy general answer but one limited in specifics: </p>
<p>Carleton admins have made their interest in increasing diversity from within and outside the US an open priority. The percentage of enrolling students coming from other countries over the last four years has increased from 7% to 9% to 10% and then again 10%. The school has also proposed increasing financial aid to this group and are targeting an additional $30 million in this regard. There's no doubt Carleton is actively recruiting these students, but I doubt any of us can offer specific answers about the degree to which one's nation of origin (or state, for that matter) will positively impact admissions decisions.</p>
<p>I think, if anything, it's harder to get into Carleton as an international student applying for financial aid than as a US citizen. There are lots of int'l students who just want to go to the best college in the US that will give them financial aid (and yes, I have heard from a couple of int'l students at Carleton that this is precisely why they applied, totally different story than all the "quirky" marketing that draws US applicants). Since Carleton offers some financial aid to int'l students like the Starr Scholarship, I imagine Carleton gets a lot of applications from int'l students who are blanket-applying to every top university/LAC that offers financial aid, and so the competition for the relatively few funded int'l student spots is tight.</p>
<p>An int'l student who isn't applying for financial aid might be a different story.</p>
<p>International students who have no financial need are evaluated with everyone else. Carleton is not need blind to international students so once the money has run out for internationals, that is it for any who need aid. Those who do not continue to be considered.</p>
<p>All of my kids went at least 7 hours away, and I have one cross country. His friends are also cross country. But the vast, vast majority of kids from any of their graduating classes ended up in college within 3 hours of home, even if they had more selective offers further away. Distance truly is an issue. However, at S3's school, it seems to me from looking at the college list that this past year more kids did consider more remote schools which I think is great.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that the location, and thus lower familiarity of Carleton to the more populated parts of the country, is the main driver behind why it might be a little "easier" to get in to Carleton than comparable quality east coast schools. If Carletin was in the Northeast it would be right up there with Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury, and Bowdion in terms of selectivity - and probably somewhere right in the middle of that group. Carleton is a great school - among the best - don't let any stats suggest otherwise.</p>