<p>Being a likable kid that made a good impression regardless of their stats or SSAT score is underrated.</p>
<p>Open conversation is great in my view–and the more controversial the topic, the better to help me figure out what I really think. I really dislike the way vitriolic, ad hominem attacks shut down discussion on this board.</p>
<p>Anyway, another perspective on the test-taking issue. I think it’s important to remember that the argument that tests don’t matter is an argument from privilege. I work with bad test takers every day of the school year. Most of them don’t have knowledgeable, caring parents like you all advocating for them. Given that, I think they need it all. They need help with their test-taking skills, help learning to study and manage their time so they’ll get A’s instead of B’s and C’s, help finding schools that will fit. These are inherently intelligent, personable, kids with lots of skills, but they have NO idea how to get where our kids are. </p>
<p>So I’m not going to tell my students (or my own middle class kids) that standardized tests don’t matter…every piece matters. You never know where or why or how you’re going to break in.</p>
<p>Classicalmama, </p>
<p>Let me tell you the flip side - some of the kids with 99% scores enter BS unable to do the real work. There are many kids with low stats who go on to be class leaders and straight A students. There are examples of students who test high and flunk out (or drop out.)</p>
<p>A recent story involved a student who scored perfect on all assessment tests, particularly English and verbal, then entered BS unable to form a grammatically correct sentence or write an essay on their own.</p>
<p>Because so many kids are “coached” schools suspect they aren’t seeing the real candidate - only some consultants version of him/her.</p>
<p>So do scores count? Sometimes - but never more than the “whole” kid and the package they bring with them. A low score but consistent grades, rigorous coursework and interesting (and passionate) EC’s trumps a high scoring kid whose resume looks like the thousand others in a pile.</p>
<p>So if anxiety attacks cause low scores - sure, coach them. If they struggle because they don’t understand the test format or strategy - no harm, no foul. But if they’re just a “different” type of thinker, then no, I don’t think it matters a lot. Very little of BS is based on a time test where you fill in bubbles on a sheet. Thank goodness.</p>
<p>The bell curve at MIT for test scores shows that students with less than perfect scores often go on to be highly successful contributors once enrolled.</p>
<p>Which is why so many colleges are just giving scores a cursory glance. Too easy to rig them and the curve has been skewed by the overambitious kids getting years of coaching (that’s a quote from a HADES Adcom).</p>
<p>To the OP, apply to some safety schools next time (:</p>
<p>Exie–I agree completely with your analysis. I’m not a fan of standardized tests, at all and certainly see their limitations. </p>
<p>I also know, though, that there are loads of middle and working class kids who do badly on standardized test simply because they lack the skill, and that there’s a lot that can be gained by, for example, spending a week-end with a test prep book loaned from a library. </p>
<p>I’m a fan, always, of increasing kids’ skills, whether or not I agree philosophically with the usefulness of the subject at hand. The way I look at it, it’s best to speak as many languages as possible–including Bubblefill.</p>
<p>I started a group called “perfect score” with some inner city students to see if I could bump the scores through coaching. What I’m learning is that cities have been so focused on the “got dang” state exams that they’re lead away from the strategies they have to learn for the ones that count for college. Many times those students don’t understand what the test is asking. For instance, when working on science for the ACT I explained that the questions throws in a lot of red herrings that aren’t needed to answer the question, and the data and charts are the same way. Or ordered improperly to trick you into seeing one thing when something else is going on.</p>
<p>I also observed, with both of my children, that inner city teachers tended to assume my hubby and I were writing their papers because they used “big words.” I told them to note my daughter’s spoke the language spoken in my house - literate - and read Philip Pullman and Tolkien and Shakespeare voluntarily (the latter I do not). So then we were told “most kids” aren’t like that. See? Low expectations and kids learn to parrot back what will please teacher who smack them down for thinking out of the box hence my daughter escaping to BS by her own choice and asking me to “take care” of her friends after she was gone.</p>
<p>So we are in agreement on that. Local private schools are more focused on elite colleges and don’t have to take the state exams so those kids are taking Stat 10’s or other standardized exams more closely aligned with college entrance exam strategies. And they have rigorous prep courses.</p>
<p>Having said that - it’s why a BS or college might look at a kid with straight A’s but a 74% SSAT and determine that the academic work and “uncoached” essays outweigh the kid who has straight A’s and 99% and has been a school known to “prep” for years before the applications are due.</p>
<p>So I suspect we’re actually saying the same thing. It’s a foreign language that needs to be learned so you eliminate as many possible barriers as possible.</p>
<p>Yup, we’re saying the same thing–and, incidentally, I think you just offered the best response yet to the question posed in this thread’s title. </p>
<p>I’d love to learn more about that program you started–sounds like something we could use out here in the sticks for exactly the reasons you describe.</p>
<p>It’s a test - I’ll let you know if it works. I’m fighting a headwind here in the great plains. Never saw a district work so hard to set standards so low then try to make sure the kids can’t make even that. I had one amazing kid try applying to Taft and she gave up without telling me. Why? Her teachers refused to write her recommendations and said she’d just bounce back like all the others. I’m scratching my head. The only “other” one in the history of the school was the one that I raised and she’s having the time of her life. Spent a few hours with the heads of local colleges lobbying the school board about improving standards and making it possible for the gifted kids to move forward.</p>
<p>I’ve been saying it for fifteen years. Maybe this time is the charm. In the meantime it’s me, a flipchart and books in my dining room and some test kids who volunteered as guinea pigs because they want out like my daughter.</p>
<p>I just spent 20 minutes writing a thoughtful response to the OP’s original question with strong opinions and personal anecdotes but a technical glitch caused it to be erased. Whatever, my concerns have already been voiced by other posters.</p>
<p>ok so while I agree that this post should die, I just want to voice my amazement at how people dont read posts thoroughly, yet comment on them.
To whomever said " its my understanding that the reverse is true, if a college sees 99% scores and low grades they will think that child is lazy" - read the literature. Talk to admission people. Same person said - where did you get 7 minutes,my kid interviewed for much longer - correct, but the initial application read is 7 minutes. Please read the post more carefully before you comment. To the same person who said, why are you talking about extra time etc - because if you read all the posts carefully you would have seen that that was an answer to someone’s post about a kid not being wired for timing (code for issues that allow extra time)
To Exie - your rambling last 3 posts say exactly what I had mentioned - that in admissions sometimes preference will be given to someone who may have lower scores, but who has demonstrated that despite all their difficulties, they overcame them and rose to the top, rather than to someone who had everything handed to them.
To Classical - yes, standardized tests are a pain, but for now its a way of life, and the more we can help kids to succeed in them, the better.</p>