diversity in high schools

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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<p>I was just wondering what you all parents thought about this issue.
Do you think that some schools are over doing the whole diversity thing? Some schools are making it seem like segregation hasn't changed since the MLK era. And obviously this nation has come a far way since then. I think some schools are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
One school that I've read a website of (not a boarding school, just private day), even has a mentoring program for "students of color". They take the students twice a week to have a casual little chat about how they fit in. I personally think that this would be creating more segregation than there already is. I know people at the school, and the "students of color" fit in perfectly fine. By making these focus groups, the school is back peddling. They think that they are "helping the students to fit in", while really they are practically saying to the students that they are different, and that they need special attention or else they can't be the same as everybody else, while, if the students were not in these focus groups after school, they would probably be off playing with their "white" friends.
And "Students of color"? what does that mean? Do asians count? because there are very few asians at the school. And what about half-black students. or even a quarter? I find it strange that there is no set line as to who is meant to participate.
I also had a friend bring up a good point about being "reverse racist" as she put it. The world of admissions has begun to segregate against us common white folk. The fact that it is harder now for us to get into schools, because the admissions officers are off recruiting inner city nebraska students.</p>

<p>Just wondering what everybody else's take on this "issue" is.</p>

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<p>I was about to write a thoughtful response about how Taft has changed their focus so that multicultural means everyone - and activities are inclusive of all cultures.</p>

<p>Then I got to this part of your message:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>and erased the rest of the response.</p>

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<p>Exie–you said all that was needed…thank you.</p>

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<p>Bookmarked. Just curious.</p>

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<p>No not at all. The schools push for diversity. There are many other programs for mentoring white students, asians I am happy that these schools take the time and effort to have a diverse student body. You need to focus on other important issues!</p>

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<p>Why is this reverse racism…? You are very selfish!</p>

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<p>This isn’t reverse racism</p>

<p>The fact is most white folk are born in better socioeconomic conditions then people of different colored skin. This is because of the many injustices done to people of other races by Supremicist groups. In birth and in upbringing most people who come from these kinds of backgrounds are at a huge disadvantage, and giving these people a shot is only evening the playing field. My own dad grew up in Pakistan went to a government school and had to study by streetlight, but because he worked extremely hard and did better then the guys going to the elitest schools of Pakistan, and because of that he got accepted into Stanford.</p>

<p>if people like this were not given a fair shot the rich white people would remain rich and the poor people in Africa and Asia would remain poor</p>

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<p>Just curious, define common white folk. I want to make sure I don’t fall in that category. Are they the same people who scream they want their country back! (USA)
BTW, a major reason I<code>m pursuing BS is to be in a more intelligent, open minded and diverse environment. My PS is just a loaf on plain white bread and I</code>m craving multi grain, as in the real world.</p>

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<p>@ Shrinkrap: So nice to see you across the isle in the Prep School forum! For years, I’ve read your posts in the College Admissions forums and have always found them to be insightful and very valuable. </p>

<p>@Exie: your posts are consistently on point and the previous one is no exception.</p>

<p>@maddog15: lol at your first sentence.</p>

<p>@Starz27: re reverse racism issue. Now there’s a concept that has been beaten to a bloody pulp. Have your “friend” do some research on the subject. Suggest that she/he start with the works of Tim Wise, whose analysis on this very topic are poignant and enlightening .He’s a “common white folk” dude so I’m sure she’ll be well within her range of comfort. And also, advise her explore the notion that education is learning what you didn’t even know you didn’t know. That should keep her busy.</p>

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<p>Star27- </p>

<p>In looking at scores of schools for our two sons, I have never noticed a specific program for African Amercians. It is my personal opionion, and where I do agree with you, that to specifically point out a difference often makes it more pronounced and your example seems extreme. It almost seems as if the school feels elitist and trying to make these different folk ‘fit in’ seems condescending in their approach.</p>

<p>Now as far as taking the entire MLK thing too far - I totally disagree with your perspective.</p>

<p>Our sons’ boarding school spent TWO days celebrating MLK - they had special speakers, watched films and had discussion groups. They focused on teaching the students about what society was like at the time - so many of these kids have NO idea of the injustices that went on and are shocked to hear these truths. The school asked students, via small senior led focus groups, to discuss our schools own core values with regard to Dr. King’s teachings. They talked about how LIVING by your values can bring about change and that sometimes the hardest thing we are asked to do is to stand firm in those beliefs.</p>

<p>The school was not teaching that things had not changed and we were still in the 1950s. They were imploring ALL of God’s children to take up the values and beliefs that Dr. King held dear. To continue to bring about social change in a world that could use more compassion and brotherly love. Dr King had a set of firm values and he believed that nonviolent strategies could bring about social change - related to ANY form of injustice, not just racism.</p>

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<p>I don’t think Star27 meant to bring about such an emotional response in folk. As far as common white folk being discriminated against - yes, you could say it appears that way when a school that was traditionally 90% white decides to diversify… what ethnic group gets cut there? White folk of course. Look at the all male schools that went CoEd - ouch, for a long time I am sure ALL boys felt the brunt of that. And boarding/day schools that try to increase their numbers in the boarding population - naturally there will be some ‘discrimination’ against the day students no matter their color.</p>

<p>But, IMO, the real minority group that I think faces an extreme hurdle in gaining prep school admission are the asian students. There are SO many brilliant and talented students, but any school wants to maintain diversity and as a result will limit the number of kids from CT or Korea. </p>

<p>I believe the schools are doing the best they can to keep a well balanced community. I don’t believe there is any reverse racism going on either toward whites or asians. </p>

<p>DH says I must throw out that, in fact, we are hoping that our son being a white, Central Florida cracker will be unique enough to add to a school’s diversity. :)</p>

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<p>Why were the schools 90% white and all male in the first place?</p>

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<p>Whatever your position is on this issue, it is really an issue way beyond prep schools - it has been debated on a much larger stage as a social issue. Prep schools including many top ones rightfully are just trying to keep up with the social progress they’ve perceived over the past few decades. That said, there are schools that are more “traditional” than others, find those if that’s what you want for your kids.</p>

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<p>I’m really sorry to have offended anybody here. I now somewhat regret adding the part about reverse racism.
The part that I was most curious as to what people’s reactions were was the part about the “students of color” mentoring program.
insight?</p>

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<p>“@ Shrinkrap: So nice to see you across the isle in the Prep School forum! For years, I’ve read your posts in the College Admissions forums and have always found them to be insightful and very valuable.”</p>

<p>Thank you! And let me add, that as “strange” as the whole elite college admission thing is to me, boarding school is even “stranger”. By strange I mean, even though many would now consider me “well educated” and “upper class/income”, I have rarely known anyone remotely interested or involved in either of these things. There are three exceptions. My dad went to Columbia, although I did not know what an “Ivy” was, until I met my husband, who went to Columbia too. And I knew two boys who appeared at their grandparents house from time to time, and went “boarding school”. In retrospect, I think they would have been called “biracial”. I seem to remember some of us going for an “outreach” visit, and being pretty impressed.</p>

<p>That is why I am so curious. </p>

<p>I think I’m going to try to find those two on facebook!</p>

<p>OTOH, I know a lot of kids; friends, relatives, and patients, in juvenile hall and residential treatment centers.</p>

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<p>There are so many wonderful discussions in this thread that I feel I have to get involved, not providing my opinions but asking questions. I am a newly naturalized American citizen and I only came to this country a month before my first child was born. I always told my children that I love America because she provided me with so many opportunities and none of the other countries, including my mother land, could provide. I told them that they should appreciate their privilege as the first generation American born and excel at whatever they do.</p>

<p>I love America, but I really do not know much about her. I received all my education outside USA and I guess you can even hear my Asian accent in my writing. I am learning with my children when they are taking American history lessons. I learned about the American Revolution, the Civil War, the injustice of slavery, the unfair treatments of Native Americans, the Chinese Railroad workers, Japanese Americans during WWII. I also spent some efforts in trying to understand the affirmative action and some recent immigration discussions. The more I am learning, the more questions I have. I wonder if my fellow parents in this CC forum can share their view points on some of my questions.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>When I hear racial discussions, it is always black and white. Where do Asian American, Native Americans and Latino Americans fit in this black and white picture? Are they all grey? Do you think adding their own colors, like yellow, red, or whatever color, will make this black and white discussion less interesting?</p></li>
<li><p>I found it is interesting that people always ask my children “Where are you come from?” even they speak perfect English with a southern accent. Luckily my children do not mind that question. Do you feel it is strange if a black or white kid was asked the same question?</p></li>
<li><p>I noticed that my African American friends are likely to bring up the racial discussions but my white friends normally avoid such discussion. Why?</p></li>
<li><p>I understand the need for affirmative action when it was established. Is it still very important at current time? When do you think it will no longer be needed? Many Asians believe that affirmative action discriminate against Asian students since many Asian students are high achievers. They have to have much higher grades than African American and white students in order to be accepted at a college. Do you think this is the case?</p></li>
<li><p>When we talk about minority students (not students of color), we really mean African American and Latino students. Asians are excluded. I think “under privileged students” should be a better word. I really think Latino students are underrepresented in boarding schools and in this CC forum. Does any boarding school pay attention in getting Latino students?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There are more questions and I run out of time. Your comments will be highly appreciated.</p>

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<p>^Again, I have no boarding school experience, but a lot of the answers to your questions depend on context. Where do you live? Where are you trying to go? I have lived in NYC “outer boroughs”, DC, S.Cal metro, N.Cal suburb, but all of these have different perspectives from where my family lives in the south. My impression is, that everything in between is even MORE different.</p>

<p>BTW, when I visited Nigeria, I was asked “What are You?” They could not believe I was considered “black” in other countries. There is absolutely no question in any other place I’ve been. Well once, at a bay area airport, someone thought Pacific rim.</p>

<p>"I found it is interesting that people always ask my children “Where are you come from?” even they speak perfect English with a southern accent. "</p>

<p>I wonder if this means, what part of Asia is your family from. In N. Cal, “Asian” is not helpful at all. What part of China? Japan? Philippines? Korea, Viet Nam? Pacific rim? And don’t forget India. Asian? What does that even MEAN?</p>

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<p>Apologies in advance - rant ahead…</p>

<p>My dearest Starz,</p>

<p>Apologies aside, I’m still offended. You used a diversity argument to make an uninformed racist comment with no real knowledge of how the recruiting system actually works. I can tell you with some authority that it’s not the Nebraska inner city kid they’re trying to recruit - it’s the white kid from Nebraska, and Montana and Iowa and……</p>

<p>Obviously since you attend Loomis Chaffee and given how few people of color are there as a percentage can you really say you are at a disadvantage? You got in didn’t you? </p>

<p>And why do you care about Student of Color mentoring if it doesn’t apply to you?</p>

<p>Kids spouting the white privilege dogma make it much harder for kids like my daughter to exist beyond stereotypes that try to fit her in a narrow box and imply she must have gotten into a school through some special “program.” That some how some “elite kid” got bumped because she “took their spot.” The ones that assume urban kids are the “charity” case - less qualified (she’s not), on full scholarships (she’s not), etc. My experience is that you’d be surprised that many children of color that get in are MORE qualified that the rest of the applicant pool. </p>

<p>Do you know how I got treated by wealthy elite parents when we sat in the Exeter Admissions Office waiting for our children’s interviews? They scowled and looked down their noses and didn’t speak until my D was called for her interview, the Adcom hugged me, and the parents discovered out I was an Exeter grad and interviewer. Then they treated me like the “exception,” gushed all over me and wanted to get me coffee. When it was time for the parents to go up for an interview, my D reported that not a single one of their “boys/clones” talked to her even when she said hello. The same happened at other BS’s we considered. Are those boys the ones you are talking about? Do you mean that “my” child - the one who has awards and trophies in multiple activities - took a spot from some of “those” people?</p>

<p>If anything - student of color mentoring is to help students (of all races) learn to adapt when confronted with ignorant comments and stereotypes they’re going to get from people who are less “enlightened”. It’s for kids for whom this type of environment poses extra issue in terms of acclimation and is not mandatory. Or for kids for whom this is their first exposure to a culture where they are not the majority (which they are in their own neighborhoods). Or for kids where public school meant not engaging a teacher, or advocating for themselves and where homework patterns were different. When the mentoring occurs its to help get those students comfortable with having more control and learning not to be afraid to find resources when the person they’re approaching doesn’t look like them. My daughter doesn’t need it. Certainly I didn’t. At most schools it’s there to help students who do.</p>

<p>As for the whole privilege thing – when I looked at the “stats” for Loomis Chaffee you’re still safely in the majority. So would you have it that all the spots go back to being reserved for elite white males. Then that pretty much blows 99% of the CC boards out of the running. </p>

<p>Truth be told, the vast majority of dysfunction is from wealthy kids, many of whom are not there by choice but by parent pressure. Kids who - in my day - were 100% of the suicide attempts. Who had tons of money but were the lowest in academic gpa’s (not because they weren’t smart, but because they goofed off). Who “expected” to get everything they wanted but didn’t know how to work for it. Who were most likely to have sex on campus, do drugs, and whine because they didn’t like the color of the Maserati they got on their 16th birthday (which had to stay parked at home). And don’t get me started about a prominent nationally known family whose daughter checked in for a pregnancy test because her socialite parents never explained you can’t get pregnant from kissing. Or a friend who was stuck with a roommate that “pimped” them constantly for information about being blacked then came back from winter break with their hair permed curly in solidarity. Sigh…</p>

<p>Luckily the vast majority of the people I’ve met on CC aren’t like that. </p>

<p>Neither are my daughter’s friends or her roommate or her roommate’s parents. Gives me hope that people who still think only in terms of BET stereotypes are the exception and in a few years will be extinct.</p>

<p>There are some pros and cons about why or why not people segregate or what the schools are trying to achieve - but I don’t think you have a valid position to be determining what the school or “people of color” should or should not be doing regardless of ethnic background unless it’s your own.</p>

<hr>

<p>BTW – perhaps you should have just stepped aside for that more “enlightened” kid from Nebraska who - again - is more likely to look like you than my D.</p>

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<p>@Dadxyz</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes - it means you too. I have friends who are Asian who are met with the same stereotypes. That all Asians excel at math and music. A colleague ranted that people think she grew up and ate sticky rice and is an expert kite flyer.</p>

<p>I do know that at Taft the original POC meetings included Asians. Because there are times when you need to go “off the grid” to talk about some race or culture specific things. But when white children asked “aren’t we people of color too?” the school rethought the process and now it’s more holistic. There are still opportunities to do race specific things, but the process is more open and the campus is much healthier for the open and honest discussions about respect for diversity. MLK events, for instance, are very broad. And even when my D was at Exeter for the summer - the same applied. If anything, she was ticked off because all the other cultures represented the positive and the AA kids were presenting slavery. That resulted in a half hour rant on her call home that day.</p>

<p>So welcome. It’s important that we not only teach our children about the atrocities done to people of different cultures in this country – (how many kids still don’t know about Japanese Internment camps on US soil and that there are still survivors) – but also important that we expose students to the rich cultural accomplishments of those same groups - their contributions to science and technology, the arts, etc.</p>

<p>It’s what the US is supposed to stand for if we can stop getting people to frame everything in a “white” versus “everyone else taking our spots” argument.</p>

<p>The beauty of BS is now the schools are more free to take the students they are really passionate about - rather than the rich students they felt obligated to take in the past.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>First, I’m starting this off by saying I’m a white American. So, this is from my perspective. I think that Asians, Native Americans, and Latinos don’t fit in with the black and white picture. My dad grew up in an area heavily populated with Mexicans. He speaks fluent Spanish, and grew up eating Mexican food. He says that most of the Mexicans he knew were upper middle class Mexicans. And they HATED the lower class Mexicans (which are decedents of Native Americans) and blacks. So, grouping them with blacks I don’t think is a good thing. </p></li>
<li><p>That is pretty strange. I’m surprised that they someone would ask that question. </p></li>
<li><p>I’ve noticed the opposite. I live in a very white, liberal area. Generally, the people bringing up racial discussions are rich white snobby liberals, not the minorities actually effected. One of my friends mother is black. She grew up in a city that was very intolerant of blacks. She talks a lot about her political views, but I have never heard her mention race ONCE.</p></li>
<li><p>I think affirmative action shouldn’t be based on race, it should be for income level. If you are poor and aren’t given the same opportunities as others, it doesn’t matter what race you are. As for the Asian question, I don’t know. A lot of people on this board say that being an Asian makes it harder to get into prep school, but we really don’t know if that’s true. </p></li>
<li><p>All boarding schools like to get URMs or under represented minorities. These are African Americans, Latinos, and Native Americans. I don’t think “under privileged students” is the best word because not all blacks or Latinos are poor. The richest person in my town is black.</p></li>
</ol>