How hard is calculus 2/3 in UIUC??

<p>I'm trying to decide if I should take Cal 2 or Cal 3.. I took calc bc and got 5 on bc and 5 on ab.. even though i got five's.. I totally failed series.. i got like 43% and 27% on series tests that I took in the class.. but I did study them little bit... is not that I don't get it.. it just that I have to memorize them... and I got lazy.. slacked.. because it was 3rd quarter and I was a senior lol.. and also... I thought I was good at math..</p>

<p>I got a B for the year (I got a 71% in 3rd quarter :( / series)
My major is Aerospace Engineering</p>

<ol>
<li>How hard is calc 3??</li>
<li>Is there a lot of series used in calc 3??</li>
</ol>

<p>any recommendations will be appreciated
Thank you :)</p>

<p>Well, the good news is that you won’t use series a ton in the future most likely. I don’t think I have ever used a convergence test since taking calc 2. The only exception is the Taylor/Maclaurin series.</p>

<p>The bad news is that it is hard to otherwise answer your question because the quality of AP Calculus classes varies so greatly from school to school. Do you feel like you could go back today (or in a month) and get a 5 on the AP exam again? If not, it may not be a bad idea to retake calc 2. It is just a matter of how comfortable you are. Aerospace engineering requires a very strong math background if you want to truly master it, but if you just want to skate by and just be adequate, then it isn’t quite so math heavy. In other words, if you ever want to do grad school, you need to be really good at calculus.</p>

<p>As a general rule, calc 2 is the hardest of the calc series. Different people may have a different opinion, but most people I knew seem to think this way. Calc 3 wasn’t too bad when I took it.</p>

<p>Do not, under any circumstance, retake any course at UIUC when you have gotten credit for from APs or IB, especially when it comes to mathematics.</p>

<p>You will regret it. It is harder here because the teachers are in general, worse than your high school teachers, especially in math. The classes are huge, and even the discussion sections may be larger than your high school math class.</p>

<p>I retook Calculus I having a 5 on the Calculus AP. I regretted it wholeheartedly. The courses do not build on each other that much, so just take Calculus 3. I hope you get this message in time; because you do not, do not, definitely do not want to retake Calculus 2 at UIUC. It ruined many potential engineers, and cut their careers short.</p>

<p>Calculus 2 was the worst course I took at UIUC. It was hard, it was poorly taught, it was stressful, and it was hellish. If I could, I would have a personal talk with you on what to do/ not do at the academic bootcamp known as UIUC engineering. Seriously, just send a pm and I’ll have a word with you.</p>

<p>And yet, there are plenty of UIUC engineering alumni, myself included, that tend to disagree with a lot of what you said NAFTA. A lot of the general calculus classes ARE poorly taught, no doubt. However, I still would stop short of saying they are worse than a high school teacher. Maybe you had a very good high school teacher, but most of them are very subpar. In fact, most high school teachers don’t teach calculus 100% correctly.</p>

<p>And let’s be honest, for most branches of engineering, if you can’t pass calculus, you won’t pass many of the rest of your courses either, so it is pretty ridiculous to say that Calc 2 ruined many potential engineers. If they couldn’t pass calc, they were never going to be engineers anyway.</p>

<p>NAFTA- Are you in the engineering school at UIUC? Or were you and dropped out after freshmen year…seems like you are angry about your first year experience. What is your plan going forward? Are you staying with engineering? I have heard that in general terms Calc 2 in the hardest of the sequence of the Calc.</p>

<p>i did calc 1 and 2 at uic and taking calc 3 at uiuc next semester. my calc 1 prof was great, best prof i had at uic but my calc 2 one was terrible. also calc 2 is harder no doubt, but as long as you study like you did for calc 1 you should be fine. i got an A for calc 1 and a B for calc 2, and that B was with a prof who you could not understand at all (i am not exaggerating).</p>

<p>I would still like him to point out the professor that was so poor in calc2 to see if ratemyprofessor concurs. He does sound bitter, but if others agree via ratemyprofessor, then you’d have to give a little weight to his point of view. I’m not saying ratemyprofessor is anywhere near gospel, but you at least get multiple opinions on an instructor.</p>

<p>heres my prof from calc 2 at uic. i would say everyone agrees.
[Zbigniew</a> Slodkowski - University of Illinois at Chicago - RateMyProfessors.com](<a href=“http://ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=739992]Zbigniew”>Zbigniew Slodkowski at University of Illinois at Chicago | Rate My Professors)</p>

<p>This is the UIUC forum Big. Not sure why you’re posting a UIC professor here. I was referring to Nafta.</p>

<p>I am taking Calculus II at UIUC with Vadim Zharnitsky, any reviews? Do you guys recommend taking anyone else?</p>

<p>I’m taking Calc II with Prof. Zharnitsky as well b/c of really positive reviews (of an easy professor, hehe) on ratemyteachers</p>

<p>Anyone have any experience with Prof. Laugesen for Calc 2? He seems to have pretty good reviews on Ratemyprofessor. Just wondering whether anyone has any first hand knowledge.</p>

<p>To the original poster: Talk to engineering students that don’t get straight As, heck, talk to the ones that do get straight As and see how many of them tell you to retake Calc II. Make sure they are junior year and above, freshmen don’t count because they are still naive and have not taken the course yet. </p>

<p>To boneh3dad: Are you a college professor or PhD; you are from College Station? The only way Calc II will impact his grad school app is when it puts a dent in his GPA and wastes his time. </p>

<p>I have met engineers who have forgotten to integrate and still do their jobs just fine, that ought to clue you in on the importance of the Taylor Series. Boneh3dad’s advice reminds me of the admissions person who recommended I should take honors Calc II because it’s oh so good for my future. There was an air of, “you won’t just skate by” if you take the course. Well I d**n near skated out of college with that advice. I did pass Calculus II, but the regular version, and that was very hard too.</p>

<p>To chriscollege: I have one more year left in engineering college. Afterwards, life is bound to get better, right?</p>

<p>To balthezar: I don’t know professor Laugessen. However, I do not recommend Emil Boca. Check him out on ratemyprofessor, you’ll find more people in agreement with me on that fine pubblication.</p>

<p>UIUC is funny because it has broken some of my ethnic stereotypes. I thought professors from certain places would be awful, and others not so… Ultimately, your schedule will force you to take most of your classes with a professor whether you like him or not, especially in engineering. That being said, if the ratemyprofessor ratings have a critical mass of people saying, “omg, stay away at all costs” and that is repeated over 5 times (I’ve been taught to quantify by engineering college so I figured I’d define “critical mass of people”), then do your best to avoid the animal in question.</p>

<p>That being said, take the advice below with a chuckle and some salt. Please, don’t admonish my lack of political correctness. These are the unadulterated thoughts of many engineering students typed here for you on college confidential. </p>

<p>I would stay away from Eastern European professors. Every single professor from that part of the world has been horrible, especially in math, but engineering too. Names like Boca, Starzewski, and this other Russian math professor, were awful. These guys were educated in a state controlled university system that makes UIUC seem like Neverneverland, or whatever M. Jackson’s paradise for kids is called. The teachers over there were brutal, mean spirited, and had little to no oversight over them. If you failed college there, there was no trade school, psychology major, joining the military, or any escape valve. You’d go to a factory and your life would suck as yet another inconsequential peon in some small two bit communist country. These guys have a bad attitude, don’t answer questions, rant about theorems, are intelligible, don’t do examples, and worst of all, make difficult exams that do not correspond with what was taught or what the other professors are teaching. They’re only here for research and upper level courses because in their head they are superior to you, the undergraduate student which forms the foundation of this great institution.</p>

<p>Boca is a case in point, as his ratings jump from “I want to impale him for Calc II” to “what a lovely intelligent creature in math 400.”</p>

<p>American born and bred professors are usually decent, but sometimes, can be annoying. That may have something to do with the fact that intelligence is looked down upon in highschools here, so they are nerdy with symptoms of anti-social behavior and a** hat type antics. They also feel superior, but somewhere down the line some jock kicked their butt and stole their girlfriend, so unlike Boris and Co., they can never really go all the way.</p>

<p>Some American professors can be amazing, Doctor Miles in math is worthy of that title, others, not so. As I said though, you usually can’t go wrong with an American professor, just double check him.</p>

<p>Believe it or not, Asian (usually Chinese, and no I’m not equating Asian with Chinese here, most really are from China) professors have never really failed me. I expected they would be workaholics bent on punishing the inferior American highschool students, like me, for their sick pleasure. Instead, they are thorough in teaching, collect homework on a regular basis, and usually give fair exams. As a matter of fact, my best math professors were both from China. They were still worse than my highschool math teachers in their ability to teach, but I was used to that and they were way better than the other guys. I still get scared if I have an Asian professor because I’m afraid he’ll beat me up with his powers of intelligence, but so far they’ve refrained.</p>

<p>Believe me, my rant may or may not be funny, but at least I give some positives. Some engineering students have anger issues from their years at this fine institution and for them everything is a negative…</p>

<p>If you can take a course that is combined lecture-discussion where a TA teaches it, do it. TAs have consistently been much better at teaching than the professors they represent. So much for those non-sense statistics about how many students are actually taught by professors; you want a TA, believe me. Unless you’re in Eastern Europe, I have friends there and the TAs are also complete a** holes. Eastern European TAs in the USA are fine though; and by the way, ethnicity plays no role as far as I can tell with regards to TA quality.</p>

<p>NAFTA-I feel bad…it does not seem like you are enjoying college at all…hopefully you are just venting a bit about the engineering profs etc…which is useful info…but other than that … have you had fun at Illinois? Would you do it over again? Is there anything you could have done differently that would have made it better or easier for you like take classes over the summer? Any ideas?</p>

<p>Good questions chriscollege.</p>

<p>First, I have had fun at Illinois. Like many college students I had my first real relationship at Illinois. I have made good friends and discussed a gamut of intellectually stimulating issues, as well as more mom jokes than I ever had in highschool. I did not party very much, but when I did, it was enjoyable.</p>

<p>I cannot say that overall college has been a fun experience, it has been a challenge. However, engineering college is not meant to be fun, and I accept that, at least theoretically. </p>

<p>Second, I think I would do it again because ultimately UIUC is number one or two in my field nationwide which opens doors. I would have done certain things differently; however, and I may have tried harder to get into other schools, namely small engineering colleges or a service academy. Overall though, I think everyone struggles in engineering so you may as well struggle more than average at UIUC and set yourself up for a better future.</p>

<p>Third, definitely take summer courses before freshman year, and after freshman year to lighten your load and insure graduation. Summer courses are easier because you take one or two and really focus. So while they are more concentrated, they are also easier to tackle. Taking a hard engineering and a soft humanities works best.</p>

<p>Also, take online courses over the summer, which I did, and take them from a community college. Don’t be embarrassed to take hard sciences and maths at community college. They all transfer. I actually never took advantage of this because of the way things worked out with me, but many people take Chemistry at Parkland College because the U of I TAs tell people that they make it harder here on purpose.</p>

<p>Finally, I would have taken more hard math and science APs. My school was only beginning to offer them and I was lazy and stuck with a full load of humanities APs. That wasn’t bad either as I literally had only one gen ed left to take at UIUC.</p>

<p>NAFTA- If you don’t mind me asking…what is your major in engineering? Do you think your major is particularly hard?
Also, do you know anyone that has taken classes over the summer at Illinois? Would 2 engineering classes be too much? Taking a humanities class over the summer is great but that is what I want to save for the school year as a stress reliever from the engineering grind classes!</p>

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<p>I am, in fact, a PhD student. I did my undergrad at UIUC and am working on the PhD right now at Texas A&M, thus the reason College Station is listed as my location.</p>

<p>Now, I am not trying to imply that a graduate school is going to look at his Calc 2 GPA specifically and then say “Oh he got an A, he would be good here” or “Oh he got a C, he won’t cut it.” I never said it would impact admissions. Let me tell you from firsthand experience, though, that graduate classes are much more math heavy than undergraduate classes. Graduate classes are much more fundamental than their undergraduate counterparts. You can take, for example, fluid mechanics as an undergrad and get a good idea of how to apply the basic principles of fluids to engineering problems, and even get a decent physical basis for why things are the way they are. As soon as you get to the graduate level, you get slammed with all the mathematical intricacies that govern the physics of fluids. It is very enlightening if you enjoy the subject and if you are fluent enough in math (calculus especially) to keep up. If your calculus is weak, you will have a very hard time. It isn’t one of these things where being weak in calculus will keep you out of grad school. It will force you out once you get there.</p>

<p>Aerospace engineering specifically (which is what my PhD is in) has a lot of math in it. You need to be strong in math if you really want to understand. Sure you can apply the concepts and be a functional engineer by being mediocre at math. Many people have and continue to do just that. If you want to really own the material though, you have to be good at math. There is no way around that. That is why I stress that before skipping a class with AP credit, an incoming student should make sure he or she is comfortable that subject.</p>

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<p>2 engineering classes over the whole 10 week summer period wouldn’t be too bad. 2 engineering classes during one of the 5 week summer sessions would be brutal. Of course, the engineering classes offered over the summer is incredibly limited. I don’t believe that many, if any departments offer their 300-level engineering classes over the summer, so you might just be SOL there. I know that statics and dynamics and the likes are offered over the summer sometimes, but, at least when I was there, those were the only required classes for me that I could do over the summer.</p>

<p>The other thing about summer classes is that they may not be possible after your first summer or two if you get an internship or co-op, both of which are more important than trying to take summer classes.</p>

<p>Boneh3ad; no offense, but taking advice from a PhD student in aerospace engineering is not a good idea for your average engineer or engineering student. I could get 10 guys to back me up on this point alone on campus. I’ve met PhD students in engineering and science. You’re practically in love with your jobs, are complete overachieving workaholics, and you exceled in school. You’re the kind of people who stress over doing bad in class, only for your peers to find out that you’re stressing over an A- versus an A. That, by the way, is no joke, I’ve met a couple of people that are seriously just like that.</p>

<p>You people become professors who then advise Joe Schmo engineering student to do stupid stuff like take Honors Calc 3, or the harder version of Chem 102. Then you tell this freshman to re-take the meat grinder of Calc II and this chriscollege fella to take 2 engineering courses over the summer; his freshman year. What kind of advice is that? This is the reason I’m here to give people some down to earth, no punches pulled advice for the person who wants to survive UIUC engineering. They’ll get plenty of zany advice from their professor advisors, they don’t need any more from this forum.</p>

<p>And one more thing boneh3dad, not everyone who goes to grad school does so for a PhD recquiring an admitted amount of high level math. I’m thinking of getting a master’s which will basically involve more advanced courses of what I’m allready taking. We won’t waste our time on finding an equation to describe how concrete drips, we’ll just take what we learned, and add more useful stuff to it. Aerospace and TAM on the other hand probably does that sort of thing, but I’m pretty sure people can still skate around theory heavy courses even in those graduate programs.</p>

<p>Chris college; do not take two engineering courses in the summer, that’s a horrible idea. Yeah, you might hack it, but then again, it might blow up in your face come crunch time and it will really stress you out. They offer all the mechanics (TAM) courses over the summer, plus physics, math and chemistry. They only offer the engineering in the longer 8 week summer session two. That means you could stay in session one where you take a humanities, and session two where you take an engineering or hard science/math course. Bone3hdad is right, you should only take summer courses if you can’t find an internship. Chances are you won’t during freshman and sophomore year, and that’s when you should take such courses.</p>

<p>They also offer CS 101 in summer term 2, but my advice is to take an equivalent of CS 101 at a community college, it is a a horrible little course here at UIUC and doesn’t teach much useful.</p>

<p>It’s summertime too man. There’s bars, girls without boyfriends, maybe some friends around, and you’re taking not one but 2 engineering courses. Be sensible and take one engineering and maybe an online humanities from Parkland.</p>

<p>Chriscollege, I am a civil engineering student. It is not the hardest, but also not the easiest engineering out there. It’s not aerospace, but we take all the calculus sequence, all the physics 200 sequence, both 100 level chemistry courses and the 4 TAM courses. Plus we have our own tough stuff to hack. I could talk more about civil, but this thread ain’t about it so I won’t.</p>

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<p>NAFTA, that is quite the list of assumptions you make there. I will grant that I love my job and the material, but pretty much the entire rest of those assumptions are dead wrong.</p>

<p>I was such an overachiever that I didn’t miss a single home football or basketball game my entire time at UIUC. I helped run the Block I and I was one of the more active members of Orange Krush. Clearly I was married to my schoolwork. I graduated with something like a 3.4 if I remember right. I think I had a 3.6 in my engineering stuff and just didn’t care to attend my ECON or CLCV classes and happily accepted the C’s I got in those classes. Hell, I hardly skated through class. I just liked the classes.</p>

<p>I also made it a point to never work on weekends.</p>

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<p>When did I tell chriscollege to take 2 engineering classes over the summer? I said that if he wanted to, he could probably do it over the course of the full 10 weeks (people regularly take 4 of them over the normal 16 week semesters. That implies that a workload of 2 engineering classes over 10 weeks is actually a LIGHTER workload than 4 over 16 weeks. It is doable. You might also notice that I suggested that he not bother with summer classes and instead get internships if he can. In fact, I never took a summer course my entire time in college. I never even stayed in Champaign/Urbana for the summer. I always had an internship so I could get some practical experience.</p>

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<p>Well if you would actually do your research first, you would know this isn’t true. Masters students take the same basic-level courses as first- and second-year PhD students. The main difference is that if you are getting a PhD, you have to take additional classes on top of those. The very first class I took in grad school was a perturbation methods class. I flunked the first test with a 24% because, while I expected heavy math, it was well beyond what I was ready for. That class was filled with both PhD and MS students. If you think you are going to do a full MS without having to deal with the heavier math and while skating around theory-heavy courses, you are in for a surprise. Graduate school is theory heavy. The entire point of graduate school (except in the case of a non-thesis Masters) is to do research and write a thesis on it. That thesis generates new ideas and new theories.</p>

<p>For example, out of your own department:
-CEE 501 says “Theoretical background, calculation methods, models, underlying assumptions, and operation of the instrument are examined for each method.”
-CEE 502 says “Advanced topics in chemistry of portland cement, chemistry and microstructure of cements…”
-CEE 506 says “Development of models for and analysis of pavement systems; use of transfer functions relating pavement response to pavement performance…”</p>

<p>I could go through nearly all of them and they will say something about modeling or advanced topics or theoretical background or something similar. That is just the way of things. Those will almost always involve heavier math than undergraduate courses.</p>

<p>In fact, that is the biggest difference between undergraduate and graduate courses. Understanding the physical concepts behind all the advanced topics is easy (for the most part). Understanding why those concepts are the way they are is not. That is where the math comes in. Undergraduate classes generally give you the physical and mathematical basis of all the fundamental concepts so that you can know and understand them and apply them. When those classes start moving into more advanced topics, they usually essentially tell you the concepts are true and don’t go that deep into why because it requires advanced math. That is enough to be able to apply them to most situations. In graduate school, they try to give you that deeper understanding of why things are the way they are. That is the fundamental difference.</p>

<p>Honestly, this is not just my opinion, this is an objective fact. Graduate courses, by design, are more math heavy, and that goes for MS and PhD students. A lot of people, myself included, are not quite prepared for it when they first get to grad school. I think it is perfectly fair for me to give people fair warning of these things so that if they ever decide they want to do graduate school, they aren’t caught with their pants down.</p>