<p>I'm only going into my junior year of high school, but I'm thinking a lot about becoming a surgeon. I live in Washington and have heard some of the colleges around here are great for Pre-Med, but I don't know which ones. Also, my family doesn't exactally have a ton of money, but I'm not sure if I'm scholarship material. How much does it cost for college AND medical school?</p>
<p>about 200,000 </p>
<p>approximately 80,000 for 4 years of college</p>
<p>120,000 for 4 years of med school</p>
<p>120,000 for medical school is not right.</p>
<p>Looking up the numbers from my university's medical school:</p>
<p>Total expenses for in-state students (room+board+other administrative fees) is $52,000 per year.</p>
<p>Total expenses for out-of-state students (room+board+administrative fees) is $75,000 per year. Many private schools cost ~$60,000 per year.</p>
<p>So $200,000-$250,000+ is a more accurate number for med school.</p>
<p>College, it depends entirely on the college. Private schools may cost upwards of $40-$50,000 a year. Smaller or state schools may cost as little (relatively speaking) as $3000-$4000 a year.</p>
<p>I've taken out approximately $155,000 in loans for medical school, which I pay instate tuition for even though I'm an OOS student. I recently just took out an additional $18k (roughly) to pay for the travel costs of applying to residency, so I'll be looking to consolidate about 175k when it's all said and done.</p>
<p>I'll be pushing 200k when I'm done (private undergrad+private med school, parents not contributing to the latter), and that's considering that the med school i'm attending actually gave me a pretty decent financial aid package (1/3 of my budget covered in grants).</p>
<p>for the "best" education undergrad and med school, you might have to pay half a million dollars (considering that tuition will increase dramatically 8 years from now)
also, some people in surgery get PhD's in their specialized fields</p>
<p>on the bright side, however, you can get a stipend for PhD studies which means YOU get payed to research. also, current figures show that the average neurosurgeon right out of med school makes $250,000 a year, so you'll have the debt payed off and then some by your second year working</p>
<p>try to shadow a surgeon at a local hospital. talk to people that have gone through med school. it is a very selfless job. when you're on call, you're basically a slave to the hospital and many MDs have a bumpy family life because of it. best of luck to you</p>
<p>oh, and Johns Hopkins has one of the best pre-med programs (they even have a show on TV called "Hopkins"- definitely watch it! it goes through the daily life of several doctors) and you can also get a very good education at University of Maryland college park, Georgetown, George Washington, Penn, etc</p>
<p>
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current figures show that the average neurosurgeon right out of med school makes $250,000 a year, so you'll have the debt payed off and then some by your second year working
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</p>
<p>How would you have your debt paid off by your second year? You don't get to "keep" all of your salary as an attending - you've got bills and taxes, too.</p>
<p>If someone practices neurosurgery "right of med school" they will probably end up in big trouble. It is better to first complete the SEVEN-YEAR residency and then pass the board exam. They will be paid during those 7 years, but it won't approach 6 figures.</p>
<p>^^ exactly if I found out my neurosurgeon was fresh out of med school ild want a new surgeon lol</p>
<p>Trust your not gonna be payin much,if any, towards your loan right out of school.the stripend you get as a resident will basically pay your bills.</p>
<p>I don't know about the rest of the country, but nearly all the hospitals and private practice groups here will pay off your med school debt (and sometimes undergrad too) if you sign on with them for x number of years. They will not duct it from your salary either. </p>
<p>I live in Austin by the way.</p>
<p>What Rh said is pretty true. They may not pay off the whole thing, but many private practices are giving sizable signing bonuses in order to recruit new physicians. Certainly depends on market forces though, so if you are looking to go someplace with a surplus of doctors in your field...good luck getting such sweet deals.</p>
<p>Wow is it good to hear that. I knew that it was possible to find a position that would pay off some of your loans, but I didn't know that it was common.</p>
<p>by definition though, that money does come out of your salary. Are you suggesting that they would offer the same starting salary to prospective employee with little or no debt? That's terribly unfair to the debt-free employee, as those having their loans paid off for them are essentially getting an additional 100k+ signing bonus over them, and such a policy would only make sense if their were tax incentives or something for paying off the student loans of new hires, which I have never heard of.</p>
<p>Other employees don't have to sign contracts saying they will be there for X number of years and a bunch of other stuff like maybe some on call. Not all specialties do this philly. For example you will have a extremely difficult time finding a group of General Practitioners who will do this, but with a specialty like plastic surgery you will easily find a group that will do this.</p>
<p>fair enough, a years of service string would make a lot of sense. But most new contracts have something to that effect though, like a non-competition agreement if you leave early or something, and this would be regardless of your debt status.</p>
<p>In answer to your questions:
The cost was answered slightly above. You cannot practice surgery out of medical school - I think the writter meant out of residency/fellowship.</p>
<p>How hard is it to be a surgeon:
Most judge it to be the hardest residency with all programs being 5 or 6 years (most are now going 6 years and may even go 7 with the shortened hours). Once you are done with your residency, you can practice general surgery. However, that really holds in a small town. For most places, you will then have to do a fellowship in colo-rectum, trauma, neuro, etc. Add another 2 - 3 years for that.</p>
<p>While it is probably the longest and "hardest" residency, the residents are usually the happiest. Most polls show that they have the most patients, the longest hours, the most gradient of responsibilities -- but they are also the most happy of all residents. Why, because they get to cut.</p>
<p>Interesting...because the surgery residents at my school are the single largest collection of bitter, angry, unpersonable people I've ever encountered...A great many of my classmates who were interested in surgery are switching to any surgical specialty their Step 1 scores will allow them.</p>
<p>Philly - why is it so hard to imagine? It's a recruiting tool, nothing more, nothing less. If you have to attract new physicians, why would they come to your group practice when they can get better benefits elsewhere? My ex-gf, whose parents were paying for the entirety of her medical education - at private school no less, why should she get hosed simply because her parents were capable of doing that for her?</p>
<p>And actually, at least for the residents I've talked to, it's more common in general practice fields where the debt to income ratio is least favorable for the recently completed resident/fellow. Especially true if the resident is moving to a smaller town.</p>
<p>BRM: the fact that debt-free med students get hosed by such a recruiting tool as previously described is precisely my point. If, as was suggested, debt forgiveness did not come out of the physicians starting salary, that is the same as paying indebted physicians more than debt-free ones. The service commitments or other strings required to realize these debt forgiveness benefits may somewhat offset such a discrepancy, but most new practitioners in a group practice need to sign some sort of contract anyway that would have penalties for early termination, such as a non-competition agreement, so i don't think the difference equates to 100-200k in value.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone, it helps a lot to get your feedback.</p>