How High Should I Aim?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>With the following stats, how high should I aim in college admissions? I feel that my chances for HYPSM and similar schools are very mediocre after having seen the stats of fellow students on this site; would this be a realistic conclusion, and if so, how can I improve?</p>

<p>My career goals include attending a top graduate school and attaining a doctorate in a scientific field. How would these goals be impacted if I did not get admitted to the top colleges?</p>

<p>Also, these are some schools that I am interested in: Harvey Mudd, Claremont McKenna, Swarthmore, UC Berkeley, UCLA, MIT, Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Brown, Columbia, University of Chicago, CalTech, Notre Dame. Which of these are safeties, matches, and reaches?</p>

<p>Thank you very much for reading my relatively long post, and you will have my eternal gratitude if you respond to it.</p>

<p>Academics:</p>

<p>GPA (UW): 4.0
GPA (W): 4.6
Class Rank: Predicting 2-3/~700 (Top 5%)</p>

<p>SAT I: 2300+ (CR: 750, M: 800, W: 750)
SAT II: Math II - 800, Other - 750-800</p>

<p>AP's (Score): Chemistry (5), Physics C: M (5), Physics C: E&M (5), Biology (5), Calculus BC (5), Statistics (5), Computer Science (5), European History (5), US History (4), Government (4), Language & Composition (4), Literature & Composition (4), </p>

<p>Awards:</p>

<p>National Merit Semifinalist
National AP Scholar</p>

<p>EC's:</p>

<p>Math Club: 9-12 (Founder, President 9-12)
Teaching Middle School Students Math: 10-12
CSF: 10-12
NHS: 11-12 (Officer Position 12th Grade)
JSA (Junior Statesmen of America): 9-12
Link Crew: 11-12
Chess Club: 9-12</p>

<p>Volunteering: Library (10-12), Hospital (10-12), etc.
Community Service: ~200 Hours</p>

<p>AMC/AIME: 9-12 (AIME Qualification 10-12, Peak AIME Score of ~ 5-7)
USAPhO: 10-12 (Semifinalist 10-12)</p>

<p>Self-studying College Math: 10-12, Multivariable Calculus, Linear Algebra, etc.</p>

<p>Other Classes:</p>

<p>Local Math & Physics Olympiad Classes: 9th Grade
Numerous AoPS (Art of Problem Solving) Courses: 9-12
Numerous Online College Courses (edX, Coursera, etc.): 10-12
College Courses in Math / Science: 11-12</p>

<p>Summers:</p>

<p>2011: Local Math Olympiad Class
2013: Math / Science Summer Camp (COSMOS, PROMYS, Texas Mathworks, SMaRT, etc.)
2014: Math / Science Summer Camp (See Above)</p>

2

<p>Aim as high as you would like. You need to remember that people who post/lurk/do whatever on this site are some of the top students at their respective high schools. Yet they still face rejection/deferral and those lucky few receive the fat envelope.</p>

<p>Thing is, most people get rejected from these colleges anyway, so you should probably have a good safety school when you’re applying. In case something goes wrong, you have a fallback you’ll enjoy going to.</p>

<p>Your stats aren’t mediocre by any standards. You’ll just be among the thousands of applicants who have scores and grades like yours.</p>

<p>Try to focus on the quirks and foibles that come to represent you. If you can put that together into a meaningful essay, you’ll be giving your a better shot at your college selections, no matter how selective.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

3

<p>I see no reason to rule yourself out for anything. Reaches are just that - apply but don’t count on it. None of the schools are your list are safeties, by the way and most are reaches even for someone with your grades and test scores (as they are for everyone) - maybe Notre Dame is a match. You could do with a few more of them and a few less reaches. </p>

<p>I’m also a bit surprised to see UCBerkeley and Harvey Mudd on the same list - two entirely different academic experiences that usually would appeal to two entirely different kinds of people. </p>

<p>I also assume you have no financial need, right? Because these schools are expensive and if they don’t come up with sufficient financial aid, it won’t matter that you got admitted.</p>

4

<p>Nothing impressive other than these two.</p>

<p>“AMC/AIME: 9-12 (AIME Qualification 10-12, Peak AIME Score of ~ 5-7)
USAPhO: 10-12 (Semifinalist 10-12)”</p>

<p>You will be a competitive applicant at most colleges.</p>

5

<p>Your list of schools does not include any safeties for anyone, although Berkeley and UCLA probably fall into the admission match category rather than the admission reach category.</p>

<p>However, determining reach/match/safety also depends on your cost limit and financial aid situation. Your safety schools must be definitely affordable as well as definite for admission. Berkeley and UCLA will be $22,000 per year short on need-based financial aid for out-of-state students. What is your state of residency?</p>

<p>Note that a lot of less selective schools have excellent math and/or physics departments, assuming you want to major in those subjects. For example, Minnesota, Rutgers, Maryland, Stony Brook, Purdue, etc… It is certainly possible to get into a top PhD program in your major from a good state university that is not all that selective (e.g. Sparky’s sunny school). However, your academic credentials do give you a chance at even the most selective schools (but then murky non-academic criteria make the chance of admission low and not that predictable for everyone).</p>

<p>Given that you are so advanced in math, you may want to check carefully whether the smaller schools (particularly the undergraduate-only LACs) have enough advanced math courses to keep you interested if you major in math.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for replying everyone!</p>

<p>@ucbalumnus: I live in CA.</p>

<p>It’s my fault for asking “which of these are safeties, matches, and reaches”; my list of aforementioned colleges intentionally contained reach schools as a majority as I wanted to know if I would be a competitive applicant for them or not. In that regard, I do have safety and match colleges I am interested in, and they include but at the moment are not limited to UT Austin, UC Irvine, UC Santa Barbara, U. Michigan - Ann Arbor, NYU, Furman, Stony Brook, Grinnell, UIUC, U. Rochester, Boston University, Purdue, and Reed among others. </p>

<p>I should have also stated that I am currently a sophomore (a lot of my stats are predicted). My “interest list” of colleges is currently based on their outstanding math and science programs, and I thus have yet to discern most of them by any other factor.</p>

7

<p>Aim as high as you can. For once, yolo isn’t a stupid thing to say. You only live once, you only apply to college once. Go all out.</p>

8

<p>Since you are a California resident, the UCs should be decent choices from a cost and financial aid standpoint. Consider the less selective UCs like UCSB, UCD, UCI, and UCSC for safety candidates. Remember that your safeties are the most important schools in your application list.</p>

<p>Have you talked to your parents about what they are able and willing to contribute to your college education, and to get some basic information to put in the net price calculators at college web sites? Note that most public schools do not give good need-based financial aid to out-of-state students, though some have relatively low list prices (e.g. Minnesota, Stony Brook) and others have large merit scholarships (e.g. Texas A&M for National Merit Finalists, Alabama for high HS GPA and SAT or ACT scores).</p>

<p>Note also that job and career prospects for science majors vary, with biology and chemistry majors generally doing the worst in the job market.</p>

9

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<p>You’ll see great variation even within those fields (e.g. computational biology v. zoology). Which is up, and which is down, may not be the same in 10-15 years as it is today.</p>

<p>One thing that will stay constant is that within any given field, given equal opportunities, the most competent and motivated people will tend to find the most rewarding work.</p>

10

<p>I would second the recommendation to use some of the “lower” UCs as your safety schools, since you’re in-state.</p>

<p>It seems to me like you need to do some visiting before you narrow your list down further. These are all top schools in the STEM fields; now, you need to decide which ones you would enjoy attending. Places such as Harvey Mudd and Swarthmore will fit a very different profile of student than MIT or Berkeley. Since you’re in CA, try visiting some of the campuses near your home, even if they aren’t places you’re particularly interested in. You want to get a feel of whether you want to be at a big research university or a smaller liberal-arts college.</p>

<p>FWIW, my brother attended Harvey Mudd and absolutely loved his experience - it’s a high-calibre college without the cutthroat atmosphere you find some other places.</p>

11

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<p>While the economy and industries have their ups and downs, biology and chemistry majors tend to have a rough time even in better job markets. Note that biology is the most popular STEM major (a rough approximation is that STEM majors are 1/3 biology, 1/3 engineering, and 1/3 everything else), so the constant flood of new biology graduates into the job market depresses biology job prospects.</p>

<p>Of course, one should also note that majors with better job prospects often have job prospects mainly in certain areas, which may not necessarily be of interest to the student. E.g. many of the job prospects for math and statistics majors are in finance, while many of the job prospects for geology majors are in mining, oil, and gas.</p>

<p>Please note that I am not saying that job and career prospects should be the primary reason to choose a major. However, students should be aware of different majors’ job and career prospects so that they can plan their internship and job seeking strategy early, and not be surprised at graduating into the unemployment line.</p>

12

<p>Good list , might add Duke-match/reach and Holy Cross as a sfety. HC is a smaller version of ND and easier to get into.</p>

13

<p>I’d just like to point out that I am probably going to major in math and physics with the intent of becoming a researcher in either of those fields. This may change though, and probably to something in the life sciences (microbiology or neuroscience) or engineering (computer and electrical or mechanical).</p>

14

<p>“Harvey Mudd, Claremont McKenna, Swarthmore, UC Berkeley, UCLA, MIT, Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Brown, Columbia, University of Chicago, CalTech, Notre Dame. Which of these are safeties, matches, and reaches?”</p>

<p>UCB, UCLA and ND: Almost safety schools
CMC, Mudd, JHU: Match schools</p>

<p>All others are reach schools but you will a competetive applicant.
Apply to all of them! Why not?</p>

<p>You will get into some GREAT colleges.</p>

15

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<p>If you do major in math and will have completed college math courses beyond the calculus BC level, I would suggest that you attend a research university with a large good math department. Students in this situation often take more than the usual number of advanced undergraduate courses, take graduate level courses, and do more than the usual amount or difficulty of undergraduate research. A small undergraduate-only LAC with a small math department may be too limiting for such a student, and the usual LAC advantage of small lower division courses will not be as useful to such a student who goes directly to the upper division courses which will typically be small in the math department.</p>

<p>Also, see #94, #97, #99, #108 in this thread regarding small LACs for PhD-bound math majors (ignore the prestige war that consumes most of the thread):
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414683-prestige-versus-cost-7.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414683-prestige-versus-cost-7.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

16

<p>I think you have as good a chance as anyone for HYPSM, and a good chance for all the others, too! Don’t undersell yourself, your grades and scores are within range for these schools and your ECs are better than most I’ve seen on CC.</p>

<p>HYPSM=reach (for everyone). decent chance
Harvey Mudd=lower reach
Claremont McKenna=high match/low reach
Swarthmore=reach for just about everyone
UC Berkeley=match
UCLA=match
Johns Hopkins=high match
Brown=reach for everyone
Columbia=reach for everyone
Chicago=reach
Caltech=reach
Notre Dame=low match/safety</p>

<p>I think you’ll get into a couple of Ivies and similar caliber schools and many of the rest. You definitely need to add some more matches and safeties, though.</p>

17

<p>Why do you have stuff for summer of 2014? Are you a sophomore? Are those your real stats or are they the predicted stats?</p>

18

<p>Yes, I am a sophomore. My stats are both predicted and real; my GPA, SAT, and about 25% of my AP scores are real, while about half of my EC’s are real.</p>