<p>If your stats are otherwise excellent, but your ECs aren't so great, how big of a bearing on acceptances is it? Does it mostly depend on how selective the school is?</p>
<p>We didn't realize until late in the process that ECs were so important, and had not encouraged S to pursue ECs. He has done several theater productions at school, is in NHS, sang in a community choir for a year, member of WorldQuest team ... that's about it. He's a junior. He doesn't play sports, and goes to a small public magnet school that only offers a few AP classes (he is taking 2, also honors english). GPA is 3.9 unweighted, top 10%, 2130 SAT the first time. His stats look really good except for the ECs. Any suggestions on how to boost them?</p>
<p>Depends on where you are going, but at the top schools (Ivy level of competition) they are pretty important. I hate to do the stats thing, and of course you never know for sure why you didn't get in, but I am ranked within the top 2% of my class/2290 SAT I/2320 SAT II/double legacy at Princeton, and was still outright rejected RD this year. Personally, though I do not have regrets (you should only do what you want, not what you think some stranger on an admission board wants), I do believe that my only average or worse for an Ivy extras played a decent role in my rejection. I was involved with the clarinet, with German, and with Youth and Government, with a couple of (small) leadership roles. I would say that your S's ec's sound similar to mine, and if he has Ivy asipirations, he might be in trouble. However, even at very selective schools like Wellesley and Carleton, my extras were enough to get in with my strong stats, so you don't have to go too far down the list to find schools that are less insanely ridiculous to get into with less than perfect extras.</p>
<p>Edit: As I was typing this, someone else posted that Princeton only admitted 9.5% of their applicants this year, and given that they filled nearly half of their class ED this year (no ED at Princeton next year), they probably accepted something like 6% of their RD applicants. It doesn't take much to bounce you out of that 6%.</p>
<p>I'm not super well-versed in this, so I'm sure a future poster will correct me if I'm wrong (which is certainly possible).</p>
<p>Colleges in the United States consider activities students do outside of school. The extent of the consideration depends on the particular school and its admissions philosophy and goals. It also depends on the other students and the particular applicant's file as a whole. </p>
<p>In my opinion, you should not make your son do activities that he does not want to do himself. You can try to fake interest or talent or passion, but I do not think that it is an honest or appropriate thing to do. Students who have exceptional ECs that will significantly impact admissions aren't usually the same kids who are in SADD or deliver food to the homeless because mom and dad said so. Meaningful ECs are the ones that show that the applicant has drive, talent, motivation, passion, a sense of sacrifice, skill, leadership, independence, perseverance, commitment and initiative.</p>
<p>Most typical EC lists--ones with collections of small, unconnected activities--show very little of the above. That's OK, I think. It's hard to show personality traits through ECs. Telent/skill in an EC is only really important for the best performers in activities the college values, such as sports, music, or debate. Applicants with spectacular or very good ECs have something additional going for them in admissions. The admissions officers may look through and get a very good picture of the applicant as a person or may be able to envision the ways that the student will add to the spirit of the campus. Average ECs don't tend to hurt applicants as much as excellent ECs can help. The problem is that with the most selective schools, they have so many applicants that they can choose to fill their classes with the students who have those special ECs and superb stats. They can choose to admit the applicants that they feel will add the most to the school (both while there and upon graduation). A student may add to the school through superior academics, political activism, musical talent, sports skill, a unique hobby or talent, or just that extra "spark" that may speak through the application. </p>
<p>For your son, you should just try to present what he does in a coherent manner. Also think about any hobbies he has besides sitting at the computer or playing video games. Special interests or hobbies or experiences can count as ECs, too.</p>
<p>My d. didn't know what an EC (that is, the shorthand) was until a tour guide at Williams (where she was recruited and accepted) told her. We made no distinction between ECs and anything else. But she never went to high school.</p>
<p>Best case of course is for your son to do something he is truly interested in. But something that I might suggest for "leadership" and "community service"...how about if he researches and finds a candidate for one of the coming elections that he likes, calls the local office, and gets himself started as a campaigner? At this stage of the game (primary level), the parties have their hands tied somewhat as far as what they can do to help individual candidates, and they (the candidates) are always looking for help. He can start attending those wonderful campaign breakfasts, lunches, and barbeques- handing out literature and talking his man or woman up- putting up signs, holding a "meet the candidate" at the local city auditorium, etc.</p>
<p>It's not too late to develop an existing interest. My son had a passion which was well-illustrated by one example he produced in the processs of teaching himself something. He made it early in junior year, in October. I thought it would make a great addition to his app portfolio and said so--a few times--as mothers do.</p>
<p>He deleted it by mistake. God love him.</p>
<p>With college apps in mind, I asked him to reproduce the project for his college app portfolio. He did not reproduce it ("What's the point of re-doing something I already know how to do?"), but in May of junior year, he started another project altogether--which he pushed to the stratosphere in a matter of months. Watching him churn through that production was like watching a NASA rocket launch. The intensity was amazing. All thoughts of the app and college were left in the dust, where they remain, a distant second to his keeness for his project.</p>
<p>That project, a haphazard offshoot of his original passion, absolutely made a difference in his app success--his life--and his career potential. </p>
<p>ECs show:</p>
<p>Drive
Talent
Capacity to project yourself into the wider world; ie beyond high school.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your input. A couple of questions/comments:</p>
<p>advantagious-- he's not thinking in terms of Ivy. Probably tier II or III schools.</p>
<p>corranged-- you're right, we don't want to push him into doing things he's not interested in, just to fill up space. When the time comes to fill out applications we can do some research on how best to present the ECs that he does have. I just wish that he had stuck with trumpet, or tennis, or something else to make him seem more well-rounded. Hindsight is 20/20.</p>
<p>mini-- your daughter did not go to high school? Was she homeschooled?</p>
<p>doubleplay-- great idea on the campaigning. That's something he could definitely get excited about. Thank you for the suggestion!</p>
<p>cheers-- now I'm curious as to what the project was! It's definitely true that when it's THEIR idea, they will put time, effort and energy into something. He writes, he writes beautifully, and he has written many stories, all on his own because he enjoys it. Never had anything published, but maybe we should look into that.</p>
<p>Homeschooled (and went away to college in what would have been 11th grade). But the important thing was - IS - that her "ECs" (or what would have been considered her ECs by others) became the heart of her curriculum once she got to college, while most of the usual would-be high school "curricula items" faded away.</p>
<p>My DS got accepted to a strong non-ivy school without any significant EC's, but with strong scores/SATII/AP in his area of interest. He spent rather a lot of time on the couch playing computer games, but roused himself at the end of his junior year and got a job, coached a group of kids in his sport, etc. He just felt ready to do these things. After having one go-get-um kid, it was very relaxing to have such a laidback kid, and I didn't try too hard to force him to be other than who he is. :)
And don't worry too much about well-rounded. Some schools prefer well-lopsided. ;)</p>
<p>Personally I think his ECs look fine. I think you are better off doing a few things well than having a laundry list. It's nice if you can show leadership or expertise in an area if you are aiming for the most popular schools. My son got into Carnegie Mellon and Harvard, but was rejected by Stanford, MIT and Caltech. His lack of ECs may have played a role, or it might have been his lackluster essays. They were adequate, but they weren't too revealing. However, the ECs that he did, he was passionate about and they highlighted his strengths.</p>
<p>He had just two ECs at school: Academic Team and Science Olympiad. (He likes constests - he used to play chess.) He has state level medals in the latter. He also did a huge amount of computer programming on his own including being lead programmer for the most popular mod for the game Civilisation 4. In addition he had a job freelance programming for a website producing firm and got a glowing letter about the work he did for them. That's it. No sports. No music. No art. No real leadership though he was one of several VPs for Sci. Olympiad.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Be sure to include those stories in an app 'portfolio'. Writing fiction is an 'EC' ya know. ;) Waht kind of stories does your son write? He might try to find an agent who will promote his work to publishers. He might send the work to like-minded publishers. </p>
<p>Don't let him underestimate his talent. That's your job, mum.</p>
<p>My older son got a job writing and researching for the local city daily--just by asking at the right time. He had bylines before the age of 21--and is now able to write from college when he has the time--@ $14 per hour.</p>
<p>There are a lot of things you can do for writing. Would he be interested in writing a coherent collection of short stories of some sort? Would he be interested in doing some sort of independent project at his school (my school had the option for independent projects overlooked by a faculty advisor) that has to do with writing? Would he be interested in teaching writing to struggling elementary or middle school kids? Or, on the other end, offering an enrichment writing program to the talented kids? Are there any summer writing or arts camps that he could work at? Could he organize a literary magazine at his school or at a nearby elementary school? Are there writing contests he would like to enter? Can you look into a summer job or volunteering opportunity with a writer's group? Would he like to take some writing classes during the summer? Could he put together a couple of things to show to an English teacher at the schools he is looking at? </p>
<p>There are a lot of options. He just needs to find something he wants to do, do it, and present it on his application.</p>
<p>Political involvement is a fun EC. It looks great, he'll learn a lot, he can work as hard as he wants to, and they are always looking for new people. Political campaigns are very inclusive when it comes to volunteers.</p>
<p>Oregonianmom, I worked on a senate campaign last year so if you want any information, some suggestions to get started, let me know and I'll PM you.</p>
<p>My kid's profile looks a lot like your son's, and you know what--I'm letting it be.
If a college doesn't want a very bright kid who loves to learn with great standardized test scores and excellent grades, good character recs, and two or three ec's he's passionate about, who needs 'em? :) Furthermore, as has been said before, at the peak of the boom-boom, it's a crapshoot. Let him enjoy the high school years he has left.</p>
<p>He is going to attend a summer journalism program this summer at Indiana University. Benefits are threefold: he can check out IU and see how it feels to stay in a dorm, he can find out if journalism is truly something he is interested in, and it looks better than sitting at his computer all summer ;)</p>
<p>I'm not a pushy parent and I don't want to be. By and large we've let our kids chart their own paths; I just hope we haven't let some opportunities slip by without realizing it.</p>
<p>Okay, as I mentioned later in my post, you do not have to go very far down the list to find excellent schools that will accept an otherwise strong applicant even with more minimal extras. As others have said, I do not condone/promote/whatever resume building--have your son do the things he is interested in, pick a good college list, and accept your decisions. To me, 4 years of doing stuff that I wasn't interested in would not make up for MAYBE avoiding a couple of sad hours/a few disappointed days if your extras impeded your way into X college. Basically, I agree with everything that hereshoping said :). </p>
<p>I also agree with others that your son's extras seem decent right now, anyway. Maybe not Ivy decent, but you already said that that's not what you are shooting for, so they seem fine to me. I'm not quite sure what Tier II or III means, but I think that most schools really just want to know that a kid has some real interest beyond schoolwork that they will add to the campus--they don't need to be extracurricular whirlwinds.</p>
<p>It looks like I may have a similar issue with my S. He'll be a HS freshman next year, but really doesn't have many interests that neatly fit into the "EC" category, and his small, new charter school offers limited opportunities anyway. That said, he will be playing some competitive squash (outside of high school) by the time he graduates will have played classical piano for almost 10 years (but no competitions or major recitals) and will study Japanese, also outside of high school because it is not offered. There is also the possibility he will do a semester abroad program as a junior, either in a Spanish-speaking country or possibly in Japan. </p>
<p>I agree that your son has decent ECs. If he'd want to take drama further, he could write or direct a play. He could offer to write movie reviews for his local paper. Or the school paper. Or he could just go on beautifully being himself.</p>
<p>katliamom-- those ECs sound really good, and very well-rounded! My S is taking Japanese too, but unfortunately didn't set up his schedule very well. He took Japanese I as a sophomore; he would rather have taken Spanish because he took some in grade school & middle school, but the Spanish teacher quit right before school started freshman year, so they didn't offer Spanish. When it came time to do forecasting for soph. year, he signed up for Japanese. So, he took Jap. 1 that year and opted not to take Jap. 2 this year. He's taking it next year as a senior. That means only 2 years of foreign language, which hurts him in the college app. process. We looked into having him take it over the summer at the community college, but decided we really need to do college visits and the journalism program this summer.</p>
<p>bethievt-- I should have mentioned he does write for the school paper. He would LOVE to write or direct a play. He actually did write a script when he was in 7th grade - we should dig that out. Thanks for the suggestion.</p>
<p>I don't think your son will have any problems, Katliamom. Just encourage him to be active in what he likes to do, and then you can find a way to communicate it on his application. He doesn't need traditional, school-based ECs if he has something else.</p>