How much do you push vs. let it be re: ECs?

Parent Cafe
1

My S21 is a good student with a 4.0 right now. He works really hard on his school work. His Pre-ACT score was meh but I suspect once he practices he’ll do pretty well there too.

At this point these are his ECs:

– 2 years of XC (he will not continue rest of HS)
– Rocket club – small leadership role now
– Robotics club – potential leadership roles his junior and senior years
– Summer assistant counselor at a a sleep away camp (prolly 3 summers)
– he’ll likely do a summer engineering program – either this summer or next

He has no service hours yet. (!!!) No youth group or community engagement. No awards – though one could hope that might come over the next couple of years with either Rocket or Robotics, but both teams are new so hard to say.

He’s interested in getting a job when he’s 16, but we’ll see.

I know it’s dangerous to compare kids, but my D was much more involved – 2 sports, awards, more clubs, volunteering, etc. She had to make choices on how to fill the 10 slots on the common app and leave some things off. Meanwhile, as it stands my S might only have 5 or 6 things and potentially no awards and very little community service.

He basically just wants to do his school work, read up on tech companies and news (his passion), play video games with his friends, do his two clubs and his summer camp thing. So far he hasn’t even bothered to sign up for honor societies in HS that he qualifies for even though I ask him about it.

He has aspirations for pretty selective colleges – engineering or business Do admissions have a category for ‘smart geeky boys who aren’t big joiners and (sadly) don’t contribute much to their community’?

I hate to send the message that he should do more just to pad his college apps – but part of me feels like I need to be more straight with him that that’s the way the game is played. That said, he’s in a top public school where there’s a lot of talk about college, and he saw his sister go through the process, so he does certainly know all this to at least some extent – he just isn’t sufficiently motivated/interested in doing more. And he works hard for his grades so I don’t want to discount that.

Is my yardstick off based on my overachieving D? Should I just let him do his thing and figure it’ll all work out in the end or should I push more?

2

Your son seems plenty involved to me, especially for a sophomore.

I don’t see any reason to push on ECs. Just be sure he preps well for the ACT/SAT.

3

I think your son is doing great!!

4

Does his school have a minimum number of service hours for graduation? Our school required 200 hours. If he lets that slide into Junior and Senior year and no summer hours it can be a burden.

5

@AlmostThere2018 As an involved parent, maybe look at names of potential matches and then cross-reference them with what they say they want, e.g. the “What’s Important” section under “Applying” on BigFuture. I created a thread earlier this week and got some names that way: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-confidential-cafe/2122901-best-colleges-and-universities-for-students-with-top-stats-but-no-leadership-abilities.html

For example, here is the BigFuture “What’s Important” list for Vassar (post #31 in the thread above):
https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/vassar-college

So GPA and course rigor is what they consider “Very Important”, ECs are just “important” and volunteer work is only “considered”.

6

What exactly do you want to push? MORE ECs? He has plenty. Most kids applying to college don’t have a lot of awards. Many have none at all.

There are 3000 or so colleges in this country. There certainly is one where your student will be accepted and thrive.

What are you hoping to gain by pushing for more?

7

Many selective colleges ask to write an essay on how you contribute to your community, but this doesn’t have to be formal service hours. My son wrote about how he spent hours on Skype helping his friends with homework. But your son should be thinking of something he’ll write there.

Yes, selective colleges accept boys who are just smart and geeky - some colleges may be a better bet than others. However, he has to prove he’s smart and geeky, and just being part of the club isn’t enough.

8

He eeems like a good kid who is engaged in things he is interested in. I don’t think you need to encourage anything more unless you run into something, or he runs into something, that will clearly develop his interests and that he clearly wants to do.

For instance, my son was also a geeky high schooler. I happened to tour a local tv station and it seemed like he would be interested too, so I told him tours were available and left it at that. He had a tour and ended up volunteering in the station for 3 years. I didn’t suggest that, I just told him about the tour :slight_smile:

He also got into some theater tech in school and extended out to some local dance performances out of school.

These things developed naturally, over 4 years, without me saying anything much, But our school was mediocre and didn’t have that much work. If he had “just” gotten his work done, participated in clubs like your son, and developed good friendships that would have been fine with me.

He might have had a summer job at the end of high school in a local engineering place. I forget if it was high school or college! It was through someone he knew.

Authenticity is highly valued by selective colleges. That includes working at the ice cream stand these days :slight_smile:

9

Yes, things change when you note “pretty selective” colleges. They’re that selective because of what the competition offers, not just the number of apps. Of course, we don’t know what colleges you mean.

Right now, without XC, he’s got rocket club and robotics. For stem, he needs math-sci ECs, especially the collaborative, so that’s good. But the biggies like rounding. What about tech crew? Or lots of smart kids do academic teams. Yes, he needs community service (easiest way to make this work is not some hs club that does a random hour here and there, easy stuff, take off your coat and it’s nearly time to leave.) He can find his own continuing interest or just vol at a meal site, even once/month. The idea is to show the competitive colleges you can engage, outside your own narrow interests. That you care to expand.

He does not need awards. Nor does he have to have a leader title. The ‘authenticity’ isn’t just doing the few things you like, without trying others.

If you’re thinking colleges that aren’t holistic, then all this matters less.

10

My son thought ECs were mickey mouse stuff. He got a job instead, at age 14, shelving books in the local library. And later he worked in a retail store. His goal was to earn money that he could spend on computer stuff, but work would have counted as an EC. He didn’t need ECs, though, to get into our state university, which was what he wanted.

11

Forget about what colleges look for. Instead encourage him to pursue what interests him. He did CC but that wasn’t his passion. Fine. His activities are what fills his nonacademic time. They are his fun things, his stress relievers. Let him live his live in the present, not just for the future.

12

I sympathize with the OP. High school grades have been relentlessly inflated so that they cannot distinguish among the top x% of applicants. Standardized tests have been likewise “dumbed down” to be more prep-able, with lowered ceilings designed to mask differences and decrease relevancy, again for the top x%.

The natural, expected result of these conditions was always going to be a stressful EC “frenzy,” as kids seek to distinguish themselves in an increasingly opaque selection process. It takes real chutzpah for colleges to talk now about authenticity, after doing everything they could to generate the frenzy in the first place.

13

He doesn’t have a strong sense of where he wants for college except that he doesn’t want too small (so no LACs) nor huge like Wisconsin, Penn St., Ohio St. If he decides to do engineering he’s interested in NC State (in-state), Va Tech, and Ga Tech (reach). If he decides business, he’ll apply UNC but it’s close to home so not sure that’s what he’ll really wants. We’ve probed to see where he’s interested in touring but no concrete ideas yet.

@Marian – yes, I think work will be a great EC for him if he follows through. He def. wants to earn and save money so I hope his motivation will continue.

@lookingforward – he won’t do tech crew. I encouraged academic teams, Model UN, debate – but no go. Basically the clubs he does are with his friends. I agree for holistic admissions this will hurt him at tippy top schools. I think maybe this is conversation to have with him – he doesn’t seem interested in those schools, but I need to let him know that stretching to some other areas would improve his chances. Fine if he doesn’t – but don’t want him to have regrets or surprises.

@MaterS – Yes, there is a service hours requirement for graduation but it’s very small – maybe 20 hours? He needs to get it by Fall of junior year to get a parking permit so I imagine he’ll at least get that.

14

For elite universities and colleges that are holistic, I do think that kids’ applications need to tell a story and that includes their ECs. Saying they aren’t important just isn’t true. For our S19, that meant me pushing a little when it came to entering art contests and going to some extra art classes. He was already creating art year round and taking classes. I just thought it would be good for his art to be recognized in some way. I also semi-forced him to take summer art classes that required him to take the train into the city and kept him from getting to summer XC practice for a week. It was a good class and he ended up being really glad he did it.

I also suggested he grab his friends and join a local junior board that works for local charities. It met once a month on Sundays and it was one of the few times during the week that he and his busy friends had open. Again, he ended up loving it and he and his friends have leadership positions as seniors.

Our school also has peer leaders and he was selected for that. He wanted to take a pass since he was already so busy but we gently persuaded him to try it junior year and, if it was too much, he could quit. It ended up not being too bad and he stuck with it for two years.

He already had XC/winters track/track, art class at school and year round locally, and a job as a soccer ref.

I didn’t have any qualms suggesting a few things to him. He was already very busy sophomore year with the year round sport and art and a tough academic schedule. I don’t know that he was thinking about how to round out his applications that he wouldn’t be doing for two years yet. He’s glad that he took my advice. :slight_smile:

Now, our D21 Is a ballerina who dances 20-30 hours a week. She’s also loaded up on hard classes. But she loves to write. So I’ve been helping her find ways to do that. She writes quite a bit in her English classes and will enter some contests. She’s also starting yearbook next year since it’s a class at school and won’t require too much of her in the after school hours where she’s already so busy. Since her brother did Peer Leadership and found it was rewarding and also during school hours, she will do that as well. She’s got leadership at ballet and hours of teaching at her studio as well. She very easily could have just done ballet and nothing else. It’s extremely time consuming. I just pushed her a tiny bit on the other stuff and she’s enjoying the additional activities and they don’t overload her. She won’t dance in college so I felt like she needed to show her other interests.

My point to all of this is that I think it’s just fine for parents to seek out opportunities for their kids. It’s up to them whether they pursue them. I did not want S19 getting to senior year and wishing he had more to say on his apps.

15

The volume of competing kids is the first problem. And life is not just doing what “you want.” Ignore what the colleges want, at your own risk. May as well take them off the list completely. You choose where to apply. They choose the kids they want.

Seriously, expanding, being willing to do more than some minimum, is not “padding.” It’s growing. Beats me how people talk of highly competitive colleges (or programs) and advocate leaning back. They refer to trying new things as somehow fake. Not. If your definition of “authentic” means drawing your line in the sand, “I won’t try new things,” “I only do what I’m already interested in,” then go for non-holistic colleges.

And when you hear anecdotes that this kid only did x and got into his/her targets, compare their colleges to those on your list.

16

Probably no reason for me to feel defensive, but this first sentence does seem to go a little against my advice in post #4. The reason I disagree is not to go against your main point, but to affirm it. The reason to research what schools look for is to find the right schools! And this is a perfect job for an anxious and motivated parent, because it gives them something to do.

17

I do agree parents can be involved. These are 14-17 year olds, yet to experience much of life. Their own vision can be a little narrow.

Please know that no one polices the CDS. Some categorizing can be random. And in reviewing, “Very Important” is not more weighty than just “Important.” For a top holistic, every piece matters.

@AlmostThere2018 we just cross-posted. You have the right attitude. Maybe he’lll come around in the next months or year. Be sure he has happy, affordable safeties. At least he’s in collaborative stem ECs and has the summer work.

Mine got deeply involved in comm service, at first, through my specific influence. “We’re going.” From that, they found their own interest and commitment, ran with it.

18

I think ECs are very important, but I also think the student needs to be the one to pursue them, with a gentle push …only if necessary. I always believed that kids should apply to schools that were a good fit for them, and never try to change who they are to fit a particular school. My kids were plenty busy…one played three varsity sports, and the other played two varsity sports, was captain of one, yearbook editor, school president, president of a youth healthcare group outside of school, volunteered for a local environmental agency, peer tutor, etc. I would be a hypocrite to say that ECs didn’t matter when my own kids were so involved, but…I also think it should come from them. Parents can give a gentle push if necessary…as I do think it’s important to be involved.

Authenticity is very important, as noted above. And there is something to be said for the kid who works at the local fast food place 20 hours a week after school or spends his time babysitting etc. Those are important ECs as well.

19

The bottom line for us and S19 in particular is that his gpa is very high with rigor and his SAT was good too. For him to not round out his ECs would be doing himself a disservice. At least he knows he did everything he could within the parameters of “who he is” in order to be competitive. We don’t know yet how he will fare. Waiting for March results.

20

@twogirls – I appreciate your perspective. I do think my S is an interesting kid who has specific interests – he’s just not a big joiner and his interests seem to fall in a pretty narrow range. As an example, and fascinating to me b/c it’s not my thing, he keeps up on tech news and developments voraciously and can tell you tons about all the latest ups and downs of Silicon Valley. Early last year he convinced me to buy a couple shares of some obscure tech stock. Over the holidays I saw a CNN article that it was the 2018 stock of the year. Told him we should have invested his whole college fund! :wink:

@homerdog – I will keep offering him ideas about how to develop his interests as that’s what parents should do. But you can only lead the horse to water is the bottom line…