<p>I'm entering as a freshman Classics+History double major this fall, and just met my advisor. When we talked about grad school in those subjects, he really harped on the importance of taking many courses from a single professor, cultivating a relationship with them, etc. He went so far as to say that "the way" you get into the best grad programs is essentially by taking up one of your undergrad professors' line of research so he'll recommend you to the grad program he attended. Though he didn't say it in so many words, he came across as basically saying that the spots in all top grad programs are reserved for the pets of their top alumni.</p>
<p>Surely this isn't the case? I understand that recommendations can and should carry a lot of weight, especially when they're from an "insider" -- a prof. with connections to people at the program -- but from what I'd read here and elsewhere, I thought that an insider recommendation was more of a bonus than a requirement.</p>
<p>What have you all found in your experience with admissions to these fields? Is it really inordinately difficult for a very capable student with an independent research interest and excellent standing vis-a-vis the program's stated admission requirements/recommendations (GREs, foreign language preparation, writing sample, solid but not "insider" recommendations, etc.) to gain admission to the best programs solely on his/her own merit?</p>
<p>Thanks for your replies!</p>
<p>First of all, I do echo his recommendation of cultivating a relationship with a good professor - don’t twist things too much, but if you have the opportunity to take a few classes from the same person and/or do some research under them it will CERTAINLY help you come LOR time. The better the prof knows you the better the LOR will be - assuming of course that you do well in those classes and research. One of the hardest pitfalls for prospective grad students is when all 3 LOR’s say “He took one of my classes and got an A.”</p>
<p>Secondly, the inside thing again definitely helps even if it is not quite the same field. If you have a writer with contacts at your prospective department, they can really help to clear the way. But I would consider this a bonus not a requirement, and a little hazardous to cultivate - don’t get yourself locked into following a particular professor’s footsteps.</p>
<p>Thirded on cultivating a relationship with a professor. Even if you aren’t sure how many more of the prof’s courses you’ll be able to take, make sure that your first course with the person COUNTS. Make every session matter in terms of impression. Don’t let your guard down at all. Like cosmicfish said, each additional course is a bonus and only confirms the professor’s impression of you. You don’t always need to take another course or two- you can maintain your relationship with the professor after the course by staying in touch, dropping by, talking about research, etc. Sometimes that’s just better than showing up in lectures just to put your face out.</p>
<p>In terms of following the prof’s contacts, it helps but doesn’t hurt. My UG advisor came from Michigan (where I go now) but we’re not in the same field. So it was a little hard, and not to mention that she got her PhD way back in mid-1980s so she lost some contact at her alma mater. Although I’m sure that at some point in her letter, she mentioned that she went to Michigan, it was her letter itself that pulled me through and put me at the top of the pile for MA admissions at two schools I applied to as I took a course and worked on my honors thesis with her. I’m considering her again as a 4th for my PhD admissions. It’s the quality that matters as well- how well the person knows you. She knew me better than I knew myself! (That semester of thesis-writing was… incredible- she told me stuff about me that I didn’t know…)</p>
<p>My current advisor is still new to Michigan so she’s had two advisees go through PhD admissions. I’m not sure exactly what went <em>wrong</em> considering that she has very powerful contacts. One only ended up getting waitlisted at NYU. The second one got into 2 excellent PhD programs and 1 good program, including Michigan. My guess is, though, that it’s really the fit that matters. The first advisee had a bit of specific focus that isn’t exactly widely accepted among history departments yet. The second had a great match with one professor at the other excellent program and she was very qualified for the good program. And of course, my own advisor pushed for her admission into the PhD.</p>
<p>So, judging from these results, friendships and networks matter for LOR process but they are not guaranteed. You can ask professors for advice on where to apply and their suggestions will be based on who they know (my UG advisor asked about Indiana University because she knew people there). Ultimately, it’s up to you to find the FIT with the program (unless your advisor has some kind of magic power over his friends that makes it hard for his friends to explain why you couldn’t get in…).</p>
<p>BTW, if you’re interested in continuing Classics and doing some sort of ancient history, get on those languages ASAP and consider applying to some MA programs as well.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your replies.</p>
<p>My advisor said exactly the same thing about taking one class with someone and having the LOR say, “well, he took one class and got an A.” Makes sense. Even aside from LORs, I am pretty excited to get to know some professors and hopefully obtain a research assistantship, so that should be a fairly strong part of my record when it comes application time.</p>
<p>I’m relieved to hear both of you mentioning the central role of student interest and choice in the matter. I have a lot of respect for my advisor’s academic and research record, but he’s also one of those middle-aged guys with a booming voice and love of hearing himself talk, and he’s a bit dismissive of his students’ points of view. I know I have a lot to learn from him about everything college-related, so I’ve been a kind of worried about finding a balance between ignoring all his advice and being strong-armed away from my own interests and/or self-confidence. </p>
<p>I am interested in ancient history, ticklemepink, and thank you for the advice. I’ve been studying Latin on my own for a little over a year, and placement test results allowed me to skip over the first four semesters and start in a junior level class. I’m starting Greek this fall as well, and plan to have a good reading knowledge of both French and German by graduation. I had been under the impression that terminal MA programs are rarely funded, but I’ve also heard it said that this is a misconception. What’s the deal? I’ve also noticed from browsing some department websites that at least a few programs don’t even offer a terminal MA. </p>
<p>Thanks again, and any other thoughts or advice you have for me would be tremendously appreciated.</p>
<p>Masters ARE occasionally funded, but not very often. If you are going to apply to a masters program you should expect to pay for it out of pocket - if you get funding it will be a happy surprise. PhD’s are the other way around, if they do not offer you funding you probably should not go there.</p>
<p>Ok, good to know. I’ve heard similar remarks about the unfunded PhD programs.</p>
<p>If you are truly interested in studying ancient history, you should apply to PhD programs right out of undergrad – provided that you have the proper preparation. (It sounds as though you will.) You can’t do anything with an MA in Ancient History except continue to a PhD program, so you may as well go for the option with a much greater chance of being funded.</p>