How important is the prestige of your undergrad school to PhD programs?

Graduate School
1

<p>My choices are this: WashU -- no scholarship and no financial aid (my parents salaries look good on paper but they have no expendable cash flow); Vanderbilt -- 5k scholarship; University of Nebraska Lincoln -- full tuition scholarship; and Creighton University (they’re a no name uni outside the Midwest but extremely well-funded with very highly-qualified professors) -- 3/4ths tuition scholarship plus room and board. </p>

<p>Anyway my biggest concern is getting into an excellent grad school, which I know isn’t easy. I really don’t want to have to go 150k in debt for my undergrad degree but am worried that selective grad programs won’t take a degree from Creighton/UNL seriously. How important is the prestige of the undergrad school to graduate programs? Would it be worth taking out a hundred thousand (or so) in student loans to go to a USNWR school?</p>

2

<p>Okay I\m someone that FreePalestine refers to. Are you talking about PhD? Any of these schools are perfectly fine (though i don’t know Creighton and that may matter). I know-- I’ve been sitting on admissions committees for 15 years at 3 different universities. In fact i spent the entire day reading files for our PhD program. If you were in the set with my files today, had in the 90th percentile or above on our GRE, a 3.5 or higher in a related field, research experience and good letters of recommendation from faculty you have done research with, the school woudl be my least concern. I would not distinguish at all between WashU, Nebraska or Vanderbilt. </p>

<p>What are you going to major in? Is there an opportunity to do research with the faculty at that school in your field of interest? Do they publish a lot? Are they well regarded in the field. Trust me NO ONE CARES about USNWR in the academic world… we have our own rankings for schools that are field specific.</p>

3

<p>Yes, a PhD in either Economics or Mathematical Logic (I’ll be double majoring in undergrad). That is such a relief to hear. Going into debt has always been a big fear of mine – I’ll do it if I have to but Creighton/UNL would be so much nicer if it’s all the same to grad schools.</p>

4

<p>If it were me- or my child- I would absolutely vote for Nebraska given the scholarship (and we can afford anywhere, without debt). If you are like most students, you are likely to change your mind about your future goals and it would be great to save that loan for say an MBA or Law school later if you need it…or to give you some perspective, you would save enough money to own a very nice 4 bedroom house in Lincoln Nebraska (and that is not including the interest!):</p>

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<p>In all seriousness, look up the departments of Nebraska, email the dept head of econ, a few faculty and also the presidents of the student clubs in econ and math logic…ask them about opportunities for research, how many students go on to graduate school (and which kinds- get specifics), and so on. I think you will find the information reassuring.</p>

5

<p>Thank you so much! I just emailed the econ dept head at UNL. Honestly, I’m a little biased toward Creighton simply because I know a few of the professors there but if most admissions officers haven’t heard of it then that certainly makes me more hesitant. Thanks again for the advice, it is greatly appreciated! [=</p>

6

<p>i’m gonna present a contrary view compared to all the above posters.</p>

<p>prestige matters not necessarily due to whether you can get into a certain PhD program, but what sort of network/connections you make with the students, faculty, etc. there. </p>

<p>now here is the caveat: how ambitious are you? i ask this because if someone is very ambitious, then they need to go to a school where the best and brightest congregate and will usually end up successful (and more importantly, helpful to your goals and ends). that is why ppl at harvard pay the cash. yes, some go for the name, but the real smart ones know that the connections are more than its weight in gold. and so, if you are a complete recluse, then even going to harvard doesn’t really matter. so i have to give tell u that this doesn’t work for anyone, esp. those who are anti-social.</p>

<p>if you’re not so ambitious (or won’t be in a career that is gonna make you enough money), then money can play a role in deciding. you’re well enough off that money shouldn’t be the breaking factor between one school or another. trust me on this, cause your family isn’t deemed to be under the federal poverty line.</p>

<p>so what would i advise you to do? go to the school with the best programs overall. i say this if you ever decide to switch majors or so on and find out that the school your at now has a great econ dept but you now hate econ, and you wanna do art hist but the art hist is a dump dept. it happens. be best prepared for these situations, cause those who are are usually successful in life. if you can find a school with a strong dept of interest and broad strength in other areas, e.g. hard sciences, humanities, then that’s the school i would go to. like i said before, prestige matters (to a degree, so be careful), but look at the overall pic</p>

<p>so to sum it up: look for overall prestige (usu tells you general quality of students & faculty), then strength of your program of interest (if you still like it when you’re in it), then be worried about cost IF it really would break your back, e.g. you have 2 full-time job to take care of your 5 siblings and single mother - this shouldn’t be seen as a joke cause some ppl really have it that tough!</p>

<p>hope this makes sense since i’m just rambling a bit, but i believe, rather confidently, that this is the best approach.</p>

7

<p>You sound just like my dad hehe. I would love WashU or Vanderbilt but I’m going into math (rather than polisci where connections are a huge deal) so I’m not sure if the people I meet will make up the massive debt I’d have to go into.</p>

8

<p>well, your dad is smart! ;)</p>

<p>you say you’re looking into Economics or Mathematical Logic for PhD.</p>

<p>not so sure about mathematical logic (you’re talking about foundations of mathematics here? that would fall into philosophy of mathematics more than anything which would fall under a good philosophy of science dept), but econ is ALL math at the PhD level. i think MANY econ majors who think about going to econ PhD is not math but some qualitative, i.e. non-numbers, sort of study. it’s not.</p>

<p>so either way, going through a math major (which actually i think is one of the best, the other being a physics or chem major) where you go through a rigorous education that can be applicable ANYWHERE. to be clear, not necessarily the skill set, but the study and self-responsibility habits that you pick up by going through such a tough major can be used in business, medicine, law, etc.</p>

<p>but remember, how do you know you want to do a math major or anything near it? math majors are a dedicated bunch and how about if you change your mind? keep things always open. don’t close your options. learn widely, even take classes outside of your major if you can. the college time is the golden opportunity where you can learn what you want, when you want. when you have a job, family, etc., those freedoms slowly disappear.</p>

9

<p>You have to balance the difference between name and money. First of all, you have to entertain the possibility that you may not go to graduate school, or you may not go right away. Second of all, getting into graduate school should be on the back burner right now - you’re not even in college yet!</p>

<p>Focus on where you will have the best time both socially and academically, and what suits you personally. As starbright said, there are other factors that are far more important than where you went to undergrad.</p>

<p>I agree with daybyday to a certain extent - you want to go somewhere that will get you the resources you need to go where you need to go. And if you were talking about i-banking, I would say go to Vanderbilt because you can easily pay off the loans with a couple years of banking. But graduate school is a different animal; the resources you need are different. You’re just as likely to find a great mentor at Nebraska as you are at Vandy; all of your professors will have gone through graduate school and know people not just based on where they did their own PhDs, but through attending scientific conferences and other professional activities. If one really has one’s heart set on a PhD, then after a certain point the name of your undergraduate school doesn’t really matter too much and it makes little sense to plunge oneself into debt at Vanderbilt when you’ve got a great scholarship at UNL.</p>

<p>I also completely disagree that you should only worry about the money if it would really break your back. That seems like a good idea at 18 on the front end but not so great an idea when you’re 30 and deciding where you’re going to take a job. There’s a big difference between $32,000 in debt (assuming that the room and board at UNL is around ~8K a year) and $152,000 in debt (assuming that the yearly tuition at Vanderbilt is about $35,000 a year and the room and board is $8,000). Professors don’t make a whole lot of money - on average your starting salary in mathematics you can count on $60-90K depending on where you live, which is nice but you will struggle under a large debt burden. Cost should be a major factor in your final decision, because there’s no magical fairy that’s going to pay your tuition in the end.</p>

<p>Personally were I you I’d go for UNL.</p>

10

<p>Creighton… I met two girls from that school when I was in Germany a while back. They were brilliant and had nothing but good things to say about the school. Otherwise, choose Nebraska, as full tuition is QUITE an awesome thing to have.</p>

11

<p>I am also on admission committees and do know Creighton. Its a very solid school that positions its students well. </p>

<p>If you are planning on grad school-thats the time for your most serious networking. You’ll do that not only in the grad program but in field-specific conferences that you will attend. Its inappropriate and can prevent you from going to the grad school of your choice if you take on needless debt too earlier. All of the schools you are considering would position you well for entering grad school!
I also find that when on scholarship, many students focus more-its essential that they keep their GPA up to maintain their scholarship. Again-useful for getting into grad school later.</p>

12

<p>Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I’ve decided on Creighton, primarily because they have a program that specifically integrates mathematical logic/pure math with economics and pls. I toured UNL and the school is just too big. The classes were gigantic and the professors seemed a little overwhelmed. Too much of a “party school” for me. And I just can’t afford WashU and Vanderbilt <em>sigh</em> </p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

13

<p>Have you tried chatting with the financial aid officials at Uwash or Vandie. If you truly want to go to one of those schools, they may be able to help you out a bit. I know Colby upped my finaid (not a ton, but enough) when I told them I would have to give up a full ride at a state school to matriculate.</p>

<p>Creighton looks great, though… and with alum like Ralph Nader and Clarence Thomas… sweet.</p>

<p>edit: actually the Wikipedia page may be farsed, haha, but Creighton still looks awesome.</p>

14

<p>double post. ***.</p>

15

<p>I have a lot of experience with grad school committees, and it depends on the field. Economics for example is much more of a pecking order (prestige important) than the sciences. I know Biology, and for what its worth, there is a big difference between Vandy/WashU and Creighton. It is by no means a deciding factor, but it is an issue. Also, it is not just prestige, in my field you can work in the lab of a national academy member at WashU…</p>

<p>That said, the preparation is not NECESSARILY better at these schools. My S is headed to an LAC I suspect because that suits his needs, will prepare him best. IMO, prestige is not as important as substance for getting into grad school…</p>

16

<p>@werd814, I spoke with WashU’s financial aid committee on the phone and they weren’t very helpful. Do you think they would respond better to a letter?</p>

<p>Do any other admin officers here have an opinion about UNL/Creighton?</p>

17

<p>Graduate admissions is highly dependent on the programs you are considering. For instance the admissions committee is often not a committee per se in the same sense as for undergrad admissions but is in fact the faculty of the department that you are going to work with. Some programs might have actually committees of people who review the entire graduate application pool, some might just hand them directly to faculty members. Undergrad admissions and grad admissions are entirely different beasts. Just some food for thought.</p>

<p>With that being said, while its not a bad idea to look into the future and at least be aware that you might want to apply to PhD programs, have fun in school! Don’t miss out on your undergrad experience worrying about grad school too much.</p>

18

<p>back@liberation When I chatted with Colby, it was in person, and they were very kind and receptive. I’d imagine this response varies by school, budget situation, and individual financial aid committee member, but an unhelpful phone-call likely bodes poorly for UWash’s general ability to up your fin aid. My ultimate thought, though, is that a letter can’t hurt. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

19

<p>A girl in my graduate program got her degree from Nebraska. She came very well prepared(some students from “prestigious” schools dropped out of the program), and she did very well on the job market. If you are interested in economics, make sure that you take high level mathematics (analysis, topology, etc) and statistics. </p>

<p>For graduate study in economics, high level mathematics and statistics are far more important than the “prestige” of the university.</p>

20

<p>Thank you Tega. I was just looking at your number of posts and wondering what on earth happened there? Also, why are you listed as a new member if you joined in 05? Hahah you might want to contact someone about your account!</p>