What do you mean, “these threads”? I thought you were a brand-new poster.
"It seems to be a lot of the same users that gravitate to these threads, oozing an inferiority complex. Only in your head is there no social hierarchy or occupational prestige after college. The college you attend, the city you move to, the company you work for, the position in that company is an efficient sorting mechanism. "
Oh, how very odd. Like there is any real difference between the lifestyle of a young adult who lives in Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Charlotte, or Denver? Each of these cities has areas where young folks congregate. They all have bars, and coffee shops, and theatre, and a dating scene, and restaurants, and blah blah blah blah. How very strange that you would think it more “prestigious” to live in one versus the other. People may have personal preferences as to which ones they personally like, but there is no more “prestige” in your kid’s first job being in Boston vs Charlotte.
mfamum, in another thread you say your daughter is going to a “selective California public.” How do you see her “sorting” after college? The California schools are pretty diverse.
I love this. It really puts it all in perspective.
“mfamum, in another thread you say your daughter is going to a “selective California public.” How do you see her “sorting” after college? The California schools are pretty diverse.”
If you want to talk “prestige,” none of those California schools other than Berkeley and UCLA connote much of anything outside of California. They may connote very good things within California, and they may be very high quality, but please … don’t delude yourself that it’s widespread “prestige.” It may be California-centric prestige. Which is fine.
@Pizzagirl: That reminds me of this article by Conor Friedersdorf:
http://ideas.theatlantic.com/2009/06/the_east_the_west_and_the_ivy_league.php
Even Cal and UCLA aren’t considered that prestigious in some circles.
(Then again, as is noted in that article and comments, there isn’t this halo that is attached to the Ivy League in many parts of the country either and even folks who attend other elite schools may have trouble naming all the schools in the Ivy League).
Some great comments to that article, BTW:
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Young man from Iowa is admitted to Harvard. His roommate asks, “Where do you hail from ?”. Young man: “Iowa”. Roommate: “Well, at Harvard we pronounce it ‘Ohio’”.
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I grew up in New England, and I had never heard of Dartmouth until my junior year of high school. Then I went there for college It had never occurred to me I’d go anywhere other than UMass like the rest of my family until I started destroying standardized tests and honors courses in 10th grade. Even now I find the Prestigious College thing inexplicable and tacky, and I’m glad I went to Dartmouth for that reason – I got a great education for extremely cheap, EC elites are impressed when I have to talk to them, but nobody else in the world has ever heard of it.
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One thing, however. You state that among "coastal elites, [t]here is an undeniable tendency among those from one coast to move to the other, rather than settling in the places disparagingly referred to as “flyover country.” I’d agree that there is a tendency for people who live on the coasts to move among the coasts, but I’m not sure I’d say that’s a characteristic of “elites” per se. From what I’ve seen, the people who grew up on the coasts who tend to be most dismissive of the idea of living anywhere but the coasts are middle-class strivers, not the elites. The elites on the coasts have plenty of ties with the local elites in the South, the Midwest or Texas (no, we aren’t a part of either), and in my experience the people who can justifiably be referred to as East-Coast elites (social, cultural, economic or otherwise) are more likely to see the advantages of living in Dallas, Chicago or Santa Fe than someone who grew up in Queens or a dumpy part of Pennsylvania but has always wanted to move to Manhattan. See, e.g., the Bush family. While the phenomenon you mention is real, I think you are overly complimentary (or perhaps just misguided) to refer to it as primarily a phenomenon of elites.
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I have spent the better part of 30 years relocating professionals and the only hard truths I have observed are the following:
1- People in SF complain about their commutes more than commuters anywhere else. So if you are trying to move someone from SF somewhere else, even shaving ten minutes off their door-to-door time is perceived as a huge win.
2- People who were born in Pennsylvania are either living in PA right now, or are somewhere else and dying to go home (regardless of socio economic status.)
Other than that, I’ve never seen a situation where you can generalize. There are Boston Brahmins (they go back to Revolutionary times) who are happy to move to Austin Texas for the right job even though their families, social networks, etc. are in Boston. There are folks in LA who are living the good life (including the avocado tree in the backyard over the pool) who are thrilled to get a job in Chicago if it means a lower cost of living and less “angst”. There are folks in Tulsa and Cincinnati who grew up either coast and will never leave their adopted home town, and folks in Dayton and Memphis who are dying to get out.
You can’t generalize. Except for SF and PA. You can take those to the bank! (tongue in cheek).
@blossom, I’ve noticed that many MN folks want to go back home and some MI people want to stubbornly stay there.
Maybe the bone-chilling cold instills some kind of loyalty.
Economists talk about college degrees as being a signaling device." The degree doesn’t necessarily say so much about what you know or learned or can do. But it does say something about you – that you are smart, hard-workng, etc. – and therefore are desire-able as a potential employee, friend, significant other, etc. There are lots and lots of things that we all use as social cues and signaling devices all the time. While we are perhaps more subtle about this than the Dowager Countess from Downtown Abbey, human beings do this stuff constantly.
As more people get college degrees, the signaling power of any old college degree has declined. So now, the signaling power is more tied to prestige – things like selective schools and other plus factors (like academic honors). And I still maintain that prestige in college degrees is primarily a function of selectivity. Having some thing that few other people have – a high class rank or similar academic honor, a degree from Princeton, a Rhodes scholarship, etc.
Over the long haul, what counts is what you can do and who you are. Those are the ultimate signaling devices. But signaling devices like degrees can be really powerful in certain situations – like sifting through stacks of resumes to decide who to interview and/or hire for a first job. You can’t live off of prestige for your whole life, but prestige can certainly affect how parts of your life go.
An Ivy League degree is only one particular kind of signaling device and it will have more or less power and relevance depending on the circumstances and context. An M.D. degree is a powerful signal regardless of what medical school it is from (so long as it is accredited) and how well you did there. For a J.D. degree, in contrast, it matters a lot which school you went to (like a T14) and how high your class rank was. That difference, imho, is basically a function of selectivity.
This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on CC (and that is saying a lot). I’m a Yale grad. Very rarely hang with Yalies or other Ivy grads since so few are around. If I only hung with them I would be lonely indeed. This is ridiculous and obviously being stated by people who never went to an Ivy. BTW - one of my BFFs is a Penn State grad.
Very well said @northwesty and expressed without all the emotion and venom that seems to come out in these threads.
@blossom - I always thought it was the California people who were always trying to return to their state.
I am one PA person who has no desire to return to my hometown. I will admit, however, when I went to my 10th and 30th high school reunions, people remarked on how “far” away I was, living in Maryland (!), and asked when I was going to “return home.” You’re right - socio-economic level doesn’t matter. These were people who went away to college, law school, med school all around the country but they all ended up living within 5 miles of their childhood home.
“*From what I’ve seen, the people who grew up on the coasts who tend to be most dismissive of the idea of living anywhere but the coasts are middle-class strivers, not the elites. The elites on the coasts have plenty of ties with the local elites in the South, the Midwest or Texas/i, and in my experience the people who can justifiably be referred to as East-Coast elites (social, cultural, economic or otherwise) are more likely to see the advantages of living in Dallas, Chicago or Santa Fe than someone who grew up in Queens or a dumpy part of Pennsylvania but has always wanted to move to Manhattan.”
This is extremely well stated.
Northwesty, excellent analysis.
Where are the posts going on this thread? I see notifications that more people have posted but can’t see any past HarvestMoon’s from 2:28.
Purple Titan wrote: “@blossom, I’ve noticed that many MN folks want to go back home”.
We never said we were smart.
Actually Minnesota IS one of the “smartest states.” 
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/10/15/americas-best-and-worst-educated-states/
http://www.mainstreet.com/slideshow/smartest-dumbest-states/page/3
The ones I know in Seattle, have never given a thought to moving back.
Or even the ones from NYC, even though their friends that come out to visit act like they are eating peas off a knife, which they then use to pick their teeth.
But that brings up a point that regionally, say in Washington state, a degree from WSU, UW or WWU, may get you many more job offers than say, Williams, Univ of Mchigan or Georgetown.
Local schools are a known quantity.
Eh, my PA-born and educated niece was recruited by Amazon and moved to Seattle several years ago. She met her future husband there and they recently proceeded to move to the SF Bay Area when she was made another offer. She loved Seattle but felt the people were a little too flighty for her tastes and feels like San Franciscans have more of an East Coast sensibility. I’m guessing she’ll never return to PA, but time will tell. And I did get a chuckle out of Blossom’s observations about Pennsylvanians always pining for home because that was EXACTLY my experience when I lived in Southern California. 
I neglected to mention way back on page 3 or thereabouts that it was in Southern California where many, many well-educated folks had no idea that Penn and Penn State were two different schools. People there (at least back in the 90s) just didn’t give a rat’s patootie about the “Ivy League.” The “prestige schools” were Stanford and the top UCs.