<p>My parents are divorced, and my mom has custody of me, my twin sister, and my younger sister (13 months apart). On financial aid applications, will I need to include my dad's information? My mom makes about $35,000 a year, which is better than the $12,000 she made for the past three years. My mom barely has enough money to pay electricity and oil, and is definitely not going to be able to support three kids all going to college within two years. The expenses at Duke are significantly more than my mom makes in a year, and me and my siblings will be first generation. My dad pays child support, but it's barely anything (AT MOST $1,000 a year for all three of us together). He probably makes about $80,000 a year, but he isn't planning on supporting us through college or giving my mom any child support after we turn 18 in a few months.
My question is: will my financial aid be based on both my parents incomes, or just my mom's annual income? My dads salary is a lot more than my moms, but he is not paying a cent for my college education. It seems unfair to me that they would consider financial aid based on what both my parents make when we live completely off my mom's salary and my dad won't be supporting me in any way financially. Specifically, this is about financial aid at top colleges like Duke (ED), Cornell, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Tufts, and Rice.
Any information would be really appreciated! Thanks so much!</p>
<p>Yes, it is not fair. But that is the way it is. It’s not fair that your parents are divorced, it’s not fair that your mother does not make more money, it’s not fair that your father is not required to pay more child support and it’s not fair that he is refusing to pay for your education. There would be hardly a parent in the world who would pay for college if just refusing to pay it made his/her kid eligible for more financial aid. So, though it’s not fair, YES, your father’s financial will be included in the PROFILE financial aid appllcation which those schools you have listed require.</p>
<p>Here is the way it works: You have to file a FAFSA to the federal government, which will qualify you for federal aid (and some state and sometimes private sources as well). FAFSA only includes the custodial parent and his/her spouse, not the divorced/separated non custodial parent information. For FAFSA, you have a very good chance of coming up with a low, maybe even zero EFC,(Expected Family Contribution) given there will be two of you going to college and your mother’s income where it is. That makes you eligible for up to about $5K in PELL grant money from the federal government, and you can borrow up to $5500 (maybe more if your mother’s credit is shot) in Direct Loans through the Stafford program. Your state may have some programs where you are eligible for grants based on your FAFSA EFC. That is enough money for you to go to a local state college. Not likely to pay your room and board, most places, but if you are a student with stats that make you a viable candidate for the schools you are listing, there are schools out there that will have some merit money that make it doable for you. However, for the college you list, they either give zero in merit money, or have very few merit awards that are true lottery tickets to get.</p>
<p>If you have your eyes on the private schools that tend to meet 100% of need, they define the need themselves. And most all of them require PROFILE which will require your father’s financial information. If he won’t fill out the form, you have a problem. When he fills out the form, he will be expected to pay a portion of your college, whether he will do so or not. You can request a non custodial parent waiver, but given your situation, which is typical, by the way, it is doubtful that it will be granted. He is in your life as evidenced by the court ordered child support. Those waivers are given in cases where there is neither hide, hair or cent of the non custodial parent around for many years. </p>
<p>I suggest that you and your twin look for some financial safeties where you know the school will accept you and that you can afford in the worst case scenario. Local public, community colleges and schools that your guidance counselor can tell you are highly likely to give you a scholarship, should be on your list first. Then look for schools that have some merit awards for which you have a reasonable chance of getting that bring that cost down, and have more of a name recognition factor. FInally, you can give it a go with those lottery ticket schools and see what they give. Research for those schools that do not require NCP infor. I believe Vanderbilt and Denison are two of them, but things change so quickly these days, that you have to get current info directly from the school when it comes to this sort of thing.</p>
<p>Also if you and your twin are accepted to a college, do the numbers to see what the cost would be if the two of you took a gap year, and there are all three of you in college at the same time. You and your twin can earn some money, and pay your mother expenses during that year that she can save to pay towards your cost, and with three in college, your expected contributions would be reduced at those schools you have listed, and will affect your younger sibling as well. Your listed schools tend to be generous with aid when you qualify for need, and so with the Direct loans and PELL available, you might be able to make it work with 3 in college at the same time.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>If you apply to schools that use ONLY the FAFSA to determine financial need, you will put only your mom’s info on the form. Be advised, however, that these schools do not meet the full need of all accepted students. The FAFSA will determine your eligibility for federally funded grant money like the Pell grant (maximum in the $5000 range), ans SEOG if your school has it. You might be offered a Perkins loan anspd federal work study. You will be able to take out a Stafford loan $5500 for your freshman year.</p>
<p>BUT…if you apply to any schools that require the CSS Profile non-custodial parent form or a school financial aid form, the financial info from your dad will also be required. That your dad isn’t “planning to contribute” to your college costs will have no bearing on this. If the school requires his info, you must provide it.</p>
<p>Every school you have listed in your post requires the CSS Profile, and I believe all of them also require the non-custodial parent form. If that is the case, your dads info will be required.</p>
<p>I know you don’t think this is “fair” but parents, regardless of their marital status, are first in line when it comes to paying for college. Think of it this way…if all it took was some parent with a larger salary saying “I’m not paying for college” EVERYONE would do that.</p>
<p>Hopefully, you and your siblings are working and salting away some money for college. Most, if not all of those schools you listed will require a student contribution, even if your need is rock bottom. A lot of kids come up short on this because they think because their family is so low income that they will not be required to pay anything. I’ve seen cases where the parent contribution turns out to be zero or low, but the student is still expected to come up with some money. You should be working and putting some money away. Have your mother set up a college fund for the three of you. At her income level, it won’t have much or any effect on her EFC to just have a savings account earmarked that way.</p>
<p>Some FAFSA-only schools will meet full need. My S had full need offers from 2 and 3 more got very close. But they don’t guarantee it for all accepted students like many of the Profile schools do. those schools will only consider mom’s income (plus child support she receives though that ends before you start college anyway).</p>
<p>I am curious how an $80K income parent only pays $1000 a year child support to a parent with $35K income and 3 kids…none of my business but that seems very low.</p>
<p>My dad pays child support, but it’s barely anything (AT MOST $1,000 a year for all three of us together)</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>How can someone with that income ONLY have to pay $1000 a year for 3 kids? What the heck???</p>
<p>Anyway…those top schools will expect your dad to fill out the paperwork AND to pay. </p>
<p>While this is upsetting news, it’s a good thing you’ve learned this now. Now you’ll have to focus on finding affordable schools that will ONLY look at your mom’s income.</p>
<p>Very few “meet need” schools only use Custodial parent info. Vandy and USC are two. You’ll also have to find schools that will give you huge merit (full tuition plus!) for your stats so that a Pell grant and other federal aid will make up the difference.</p>
<p>Some FAFSA-only schools will meet full need</p>
<p>I think this needs clarification so it doesn’t mislead the OP. ALL FAFSA-only schools will meet full need for “some kids”. YES…all will.</p>
<p>But, that’s not the point!! Very few FAFSA only schools can/will meet full need for a very low EFC student…unless the school awards large merit and then fed aid meets need…or the student attends an instate public that has lots of state aid…like a UC in Calif.</p>
<p>There are only a few schools in this country that have need blind admissions AND guarantee to meet full need. There are a few more who are need aware in admissions but will meet full need for ALL students accepted. The vast majority of schools in the US are need blind in admissions but simply do not meet full need for most of the accepted students who have need. However, there will be students in that group who will get full need met, most need met, some need met and no need met. The very top students have the best chance of getting most/all need met at such schools.</p>
<p>NYU gets a lot of grief because it is the rare highly selective school that accepts a lot of students–it is a big school, and accepts them on a need blind basis. But when it comes to giving financial aid, it does not guarantee to meet need and because it is so expensive, it doesn’t take much to be gapped at that school. Big time gaps. However, I do know some kids whose best aid package came from NYU. They got full need met and the need was defined in the most generous way, and they got lots of grants rather than self help. You talk to those people and they will swear that NYU is generous, and it is–to them. But overall, that is not the case. It’s like playing the lottery as to whether you get into schools, how they define your need, how they meet it. In the end, all that matters is the net amount YOU have to pay and that includes self help awards. </p>
<p>It’s fine to play the lottery all you want, as long as you have at least one good solid choice that you know will accept you and that you can afford if all of the applications come to naught or ask for more than you and your family can and/or will pay.</p>
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<p>For S, in every case some merit was offered, then some federal/state grants, then institutional grants (and Staffords and Pells) rounded out the package to meet full need (for him two schools met full need, 4 more came within $5K). And S was not at all the kind of student that could think about Cornell, Duke and Northwestern.</p>
<p>I’m thinking with the OP’s college list, if she has a good shot at those schools, that some FAFSA-only schools would meet her full need. It’s certainly worth exploring, is all I am saying.</p>
<p>It may be that FAFSA only schools that can meet full need and choose to do it regularly are mostly in the midwest?</p>
<p>Yes, with elite-school stats, there are SOME FAFSA-only schools that might meet the need of a low EFC student. The issue is determining which ones would, since MOST will not.</p>
<p>And meeting need within $5k may be an issue for this student. If she has no way to cover that $5k gap, it may as well be a much larger gap. since those schools will already have full loans in the FA pkg, she won’t be able to cover that will loans.</p>
<p>I don’t know if most midwest privates might do a better job neeeting the need of a low EFC student. I know that DePaul and Loyola Chicago do not, since I’ve seen many FA pkgs from those schools with large gaps. I’ve heard that DePauw in Indiana does a pretty good job of meeting need, but I don’t know how it does for a very low EFC student. </p>
<p>I doubt that most midwest publics would do a great job meeting the need of a low EFC OOS student. That just would require too much of their institutional aid, unless the student qualified for huge merit from the school.</p>
<p>^ Dep@uw was one that came within $5K for S. W1ttenberg and W00ster offered very similar packages. C@pital and Adri@n met full need. And EFC was as low as it gets. I know others who have had full need - lots of need - met at Den1son (which has a huge endowment and likes to use it to get the students it wants - in a combo of merit and need based aid).</p>
<p>Anecdotally I hear Catholic colleges don’t do as well need-wise. And I can report first-hand that Ohio publics don’t even offer much need based aid to in-state students. The one state school S applied to would have cost more than any of the privates.</p>
<p>(forgive my spelling, I sometimes like to avoid the feature where a search on google for a school brings up CC posts)</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. It is really disappointing because mt sister and I have worked so hard in high school. Our GPAs are a 4.5, we’re in the top 1% at our school (out of 450 students, she is valedictorian) and we have great SAT scores (2140 and 2330). We have been really heavily involved in extra curriculars and we’ re both in four honors societies, are nationally recognized tutors, and have done tons of community service. It is just depressing to think that I have worked so hard, taken 15 honors and 6 AP classes and spent so much time on school, to get nothing out of it as far as getting to go to a great college goes. I really feel like I’ve earned the chance to go to a great college if I get in, but it doesn’t work like that. Thanks for the information though. I really don’t know how to break the news to my mom. And yes, she has AWFUL credit, was considering claiming bankruptcy for a while before she got a full-time job. My dad paid for my half brother to go to WPI and he is adamant aboit the fact that he is not payong for our college. He spent my savings on hos divorce lawyer, too, so that doesn’t really help the situation.</p>
<p>Madison, when you and your sister apply to colleges, do apply to a spread of them. With the grades and test scores you have, it is very possible that you can find schools willing make it affordable for you to attend. When looking for aid, you should cut a wide swathe and apply to a variety of school types.</p>
<p>You are not alone in this and that your parents are split is not the only reason for the issue. There are many out there with intact families where the parent or parents just don’t want to pay or feel that they can’t pay. Frankly with a family income of about $100K, putting 3 kids through private colleges takes planning, discipline, savings and sacrifice that few families can do. Too many of them put themselves in precarious financial situations trying to do this. </p>
<p>As I’ve mentioned, I posted an example on “how Families Sometimes Do It” on this forum of how my cousin’s family has and is handling her son’s college journey. It required a whole lot of planning and they will be scrimping for the next 12 years to get two kids through college. Very few people in their situation are doing what they are with their son, she has told me.</p>
<p>I really hope so. I am glad my parents aren’t married because they are downright awful together, I just wish I could get the forms waived. I am going to call amd ask what they would do in my situation and possibly see if my mom can get the forms waived. I know its probably not the right decision, but I still want to apply ED, and my mom supports me in that decision, because I’ll always regret it if I don’t and Duke truly is my number one school. There is no way I will take a year off and work, though. I know it makes sense for some students to, but I would drive myself crazy. I love school too much and am too excited for college, it would break my heart to have to delay a year. I can always back out if they really don’t offer me enough aid.</p>
<p>You would have to get the waivers from each college. FAFSA does not require NCP information, but those school who require PROFILE usually do. Each school will make the determination on its own. Frankly, I don’t think it will be a go, simply because he has been paying child support, but do give it a try.</p>
<p>With two kids in college at once, even an $80K income might allow for enough aid to get you there, with loans or work covering the rest. </p>
<p>A quick EFC estimator on a family of 5 with $85K in income delivers a $6500ish EFC. You could work for some and borrow the rest of that, if a school were willing to give enough aid to meet the rest.</p>
<p>You mention in another thread that you want to go to medical school. You will want to try to minimize debt as much as possible, since medical school is very expensive. </p>
<p>Look into the New England Regional Tuition Exchange to see if another school in New England may offer the major you want. Look at NH schools that may have a similar major. Consider schools that you may be able to commute to for safety schools. Look at schools that will give you guaranteed merit for your stats. Round out your list with some schools with competitive merit. Add a school or two…like Duke… that may offer enough aid to attend if you are lucky.</p>
<p>It is disappointing to discover that you may not be able to afford schools that you would like to attend, but there are MANY “great schools.” regardless of whether or not parents are married or divorced, many students with great stats will need to attend schools that may not be the first choice for financial reasons. This does not negate the work you have done to this point. You will take those learning and life skills as well as the knowledge gained into your life as a whole and educational opportunities.</p>
<p>Call Duke and find out if you’re eligible for a NCP waiver. If they say, NO, then there’s no point applying there ED. With your mom’s income PLUS dad’s income, you’re going to have a “family contribution” that won’t be affordable.</p>
<p>It’s unlikely that you’re going to get a waiver from Duke because those are usually for kids whose dad’s have been completely out of their lives for a long, long time…no contact, no money, no one knows the whereabouts. </p>
<p>Besides…if your dad REFUSES to fill out the paperwork, you won’t even GET your FA processed. So, you wouldn’t even have a chance to cover his contribution, because the school will have given you NOTHING but small fed aid. </p>
<p>Your mom may “support” the idea of applying ED to Duke, but it’s likely that your mom doesn’t understand that your aid won’t get processed without your dad’s info. So, even if you were accepted ED, getting no aid won’t do you any good.</p>
<p>As Ohiobass mom says, there may be enough aid forthcoming from some of the schools on that income so that it is doable. If Dad refuses to even complete the forms,it can be a problem . That is something that has to be worked out on a school by school basis along with the NCP waiver. </p>
<p>My cousins family ended up with a $20K as what they needed to pay from most PROFILE schools, with one in college and one in high school at about that income level. Don’t know what kind of assets were involved. </p>
<p>This is the sort of situation that happens quite often. The OP actually has more possibilities because of the divorce and because Dad is estranged than in a family where he or Mom just won’t or can’t come up with the money at that income level. Also with that third sibling coming to age the following year, there is that opportunity to have 3 in college for all 4 years, just by delaying the twins for a year, another rare opportunity. That the twins have the stats to have a shot at getting full need met and even get merit money at a number of schools also opens a lot of doors most kids do not have.</p>
<p>OP, don’t allow yourself to feel that all the hard work in high school was for nothing just because you may not be able to attend a big name school. There are many, many great colleges out there that may be affordable for you, you just don’t know about them yet. Be open to casting a wide net. If you weren’t considering the mid-west or other certain regions for school, do so. You may find a college you never heard of that you absolutely love! Many kids with married parents find that their family can’t afford to send them to the college they dreamed of - you aren’t the only person this happens to, and it’s not just because of divorce…it’s because of life and expenses and the fact that money is hard to come by for most of us and decisions have to be made. My D was accepted to her first choice, and got great aid, but it still just wasn’t enough. She will be a sophomore at the school she chose to attend that we could afford, and LOVES it so much it still surprises her a bit!</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who responded to this. I really do feel like I have a better understanding now and I’m ready to take a lot of the advice given. So, to respond to a few things in a group, I’m just going to ramble a bit. My mom knows that the financial aid would not be processed, I had her read the thread and explained it to her, and she told me that she knows me, and if anything I need to apply just to see if I get in, and we’ll deal with the financial things later, especially with the possibility of a waived form.
I’m sorry, but what is an EFC? Everyone mentions it and I don’t know what it stands for…expected financial contribution, perhaps? Or expected family contribution? That could be completely wrong, just a guess.
I realize that the lessons and knowledge I have taken from high school far outweigh going to Duke over another school, and I know I’ll be happy wherever I end up. It’s just that I’ve been through a lot in recent years (foreclosures, homelessness, divorce, abuse, etc.) and I honestly think I’ve stayed strong through most of it and continued to thrive despite it. I know it’s ridiculous, but I would feel so accomplished, and like all m hard work had finally paid off, if I actually got to go to Duke. I know I will obviously have to apply to some schools that will give me great financial aid like UNH and BU, and I know no matter what I’ll be happy where I go, it will just be a letdown.</p>