<p>I really hope to play in a symphonic (settle for chamber) orchestra in college, even though I won't major in music but rather Bio or some other pre-med school major. I hope to find a school that does not require a music major to play in the orchestra and might be lacking violas ... is Dartmouth a good place for symorch?</p>
<p>Check out the link - select Hop Ensembles:</p>
<p><a href="http://hop.dartmouth.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://hop.dartmouth.edu/</a></p>
<p>No, you do not have to be a music major. I notice you have posted this question at many Boards. To try to get a sense of the music departments at the various schools, you could check similar links at the various schools and try emailing or calling the contacts if you had specific questions about the programs. You might get from them a sense of the need for violas specifically, but as others have said, there are no scholarships other than based on financial need.</p>
<p>If you're posting on each of the Ivy league school forums, I would suggest that you first find out what it is that you are looking for in a school because eash school has it's own unique culture. Columbia and Dartmouth could not be more different from each other.</p>
<p>You should also focus on getting a list of match and likely to admit schools (that also have have your musical interest).</p>
<p>Hi OM,</p>
<p>Hope you are having a great summer</p>
<p>If anyone (including sybbie) has more info on this subject, please let me know. I am in a similar situation; I will attempt--key word here is attempt--a double major in biochemistry and music, and go on to med school. I have a minimal knowledge of what Dartmouth has to offer in terms of a music major (I know no audition is needed), but unfortunately could not stay long enough at Dimensions to get a good feel for the music dept--when I visited, nobody seemed to be there. If you know anything further on the subjects, please respond or PM me. </p>
<p>-Chris</p>
<p>P.S. I play the F horn, if that makes a difference.</p>
<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>Sorry about this being so long but I hope this gives you a jumping off point.</p>
<p>Looks like you are going to be juggling quite a few things. You are definitely going to have to prioritize regarding what you need to accomplish. Are you also looking to do a study abroad in music or something else. I believe that it can be done, but it is going to take some planning. </p>
<p>As you already know you are going to have to meet your distribution requirements. The school does not give you a listing, But if you look up courses in the ORC, you will see which distribution requirements they meet. The link that we could not get into did show distribution requirements.</p>
<p>When you get access to registration, you will be able to look up departments to see which courses meet different distribution requirements.</p>
<p>Some courses meet multiple distribution requirements. </p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>Religion 16 -Islam meets 2 distribution requirements- TVM & world cultures (nw)</p>
<p>Religion 12- Religion and Society in America meets 2 distribution requirements TMV & world culture (western)</p>
<p>So if you plan well you can knock of your dist requirements with fewer courses.</p>
<p>Orientation</p>
<p>On move in day you will receive an envelope that has your placements for the following:</p>
<p>English
Language
Math
You can also do placement test during orientation week.</p>
<p>*English & First year Seminars *
Did you get your first year book from Dartmouth with all of your stuff? It should tell you if there is a cut-off for exemption from english 5. You will also find out in august if you get to chose a first year seminar or english 5 class, you can do that online. If you are exempt you can do either first year seminar or humanities 1 &2 The College decides what term you take Eng 5 and first year seminar. To find which first year seminars that are being given this fall do the following:</p>
<p>From the Prospectus link:</p>
<p>Use the quick course find</p>
<p>type in the subject</p>
<p>Number type in 7 (first year seminars are always 7</p>
<p>Example</p>
<p>Govt 7</p>
<p>Find course now</p>
<p>Example: For GOVT the 2 FYS are :</p>
<p>Section 01 FS-Virtues Teaching&Learning 11am (m/w/f)</p>
<p>section 02 FS-Immigration,Asylum&Poltics 2A(2 pm tu/th)</p>
<p>math</p>
<p>Since math is going to be the pre-req for the science and physics classes try to fulfill your math requirements first semester. (look through the first year book that you got in the mail to see where you stand with math).</p>
<p>List of math courses given fall 05</p>
<p>Link for AP/ IB credit and placement in math</p>
<p>Link to math web pages by term (this will give you an idea of what was covered in the past, you will find old exams, answers, so a distribution of grades and the grading system for the course.</p>
<p>Pre-Med</p>
<p>Sign up for the Nathan Smith Pre-med Society. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enss/%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nss/</a></p>
<p>This link should help you in the planning process</p>
<p>You already know the pre-med drill</p>
<p>Chem 3 (given in the winter term) & 6 or 5& 6 or 10& 6 (math 3 pre-req)</p>
<p>Check for your first year booklet for chem., </p>
<p>Here is the link for prospectus, so you can play around to get some idea as to what is scheduled this term. Click term (fall 05) then subject you are interested in.</p>
<p>for the fall CHEM options are as follows:</p>
<p>Chem 5 (10 am on m, w, f) then you must choose a lab</p>
<p>or </p>
<p>CHEM 10 Honors 1st-Yr General Chem (m, w, f) 10 am</p>
<p>Chemistry 10 is a general chemistry course for students with a strong background in chemistry and mathematics who may have an interest in majoring in the sciences. The course will cover selected general chemistry topics important for higher level chemistry courses. These include thermodynamics, reaction kinetics, quantum mechanics, and bonding. Laboratory work will emphasize physico-chemical measurements and quantitative analysis.</p>
<p>Chemistry 10 is open only to first-year students and enrollment is limited. Admission is by satisfactory performance on a general chemistry proficiency test given during Orientation. Adequate mathematics preparation, equivalent to Mathematics 3, is also required. Chemistry 10 is offered in the fall term and is the prerequisite equivalent to Chemistry 5/6. Students who successfully complete Chemistry 10 will also be granted credit for Chemistry 5, if they have not already been granted such credit.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Satisfactory performance on the general chemistry proficiency test and credit for Mathematics 3 or equivalent. Supplemental course fee required. Dist: SLA.</p>
<p>Physics 3 & 4 (math 3pre-req)</p>
<p>Orgo Chem 51/52 (chem. 6 pre req)
Bio 15 and 16 (not given in the fall semester, can be taken in any order </p>
<p>Note: the math, bio and chem. Courses also fulfill your requirements for Biochem *</p>
<p>Music</p>
<p>Think about what you want; major, modified major or minor</p>
<p>Think about your concentration: history/musicology, composition, performance, ethnomusicology, or a focus of your own design. A modified major is also available in which Music is combined with another area, such as computer science or engineering, English, etc.</p>
<p>Link for Music (there is a performance requirement for the major/modified major)</p>
<p>**Performance and Musicianship Requirement: **</p>
<p>[ul]
a) Three terms of participation in any one, or a combination, of the following ensembles: Dartmouth College Chamber Singers, Handel Society, Dartmouth Symphony Orchestra, Barbary Coast, Dartmouth Gospel Choir, Dartmouth College Glee Club, Dartmouth Wind Symphony, World Music Percussion Ensemble.</p>
<p>b) One course (three terms) of instrumental or vocal instruction (Music 11-16). Majors and minors have priority for instruction and should make their status known at the audition.
c) One term of advanced instrumental or chamber music instruction (Music 70-79), or another three terms of an ensemble, or another three terms of instrumental or vocal instruction at the level of Music 11-16.
[/ul]</p>
<p>** BioChem **</p>
<p>THE MAJOR IN BIOCHEMISTRY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY (BBCM)
Prerequisite: Biology 15(or 19) and 16; Chemistry 5-6 (or equivalent); Mathematics 3 (or equivalent); Chemistry 51-52.
Major Courses: Biology 23, 77 and 78; and five other courses chosen from among Biology 37, 61 through 76. One pertinent, advanced course from another department, one research course (Biology 85 or 87), or a graduate course in Biology may be substituted for one of the unspecified courses upon approval by the Undergraduate Committee.
Modified Major: Seven prerequisites as listed above; three Biology courses as specified; three Biology courses from among 37, 61-76; and four suitable advanced courses from another department. A research course (Biology 85 or 87) may be substituted for one of the biology courses with the approval of the proposed research advisor and the Undergraduate Committee.</p>
<p>*course and professor ratings *</p>
<p>If your blitz is set up you can go to </p>
<p><a href="http://sa.dartmouth.edu/guide/%5B/url%5D">http://sa.dartmouth.edu/guide/</a></p>
<p>To get student feedback on courses and professors.</p>
<p>This fall the following music courses are being given:</p>
<p>[ul]
MUS 002 The Theory of Music 10</p>
<pre><code>MUS 003 01 Music and Technology 2
MUS 005 01 Harmony and Music I 10
MUS 006 01 Hist of Western Art Music 10
MUS 009 01 History of Jazz 10A
MUS 010 01 Basic Keyboard Skills 2A
MUS 011 01 Individ Instruct Keyboard AR
MUS 012 01 Individ Instruct Woodwinds AR
MUS 013 01 Individual Instruct Brass AR
MUS 014 01 Individual Instruct Strings AR
MUS 015 01 Individual Instruct Voice AR
MUS 016 01 Individ Instruct Percussion AR
MUS 019 01 Composition Seminar 10A
MUS 022 01 Form/Analysis/Orchestration 2A
MUS 024 01 I Compstn Electro-Acoustic 2
MUS 034 01 Twentieth Century Music 10
MUS 037 01 Opera 3A
MUS 050 01 Chamber Music OT
MUS 050 02 Contemporary Music AR
MUS 050 03 Jazz Improvisation OT
MUS 050 04 Oral Tradition Musicianship
</code></pre>
<p>[/ul]</p>
<p>INDIVIDUAL INSTRUMENTAL INSTRUCTION Music 11 thru 16</p>
<p>Selection of students will be by audition. Should more students audition for a given course than the instructor is scheduled to teach, preference will be given to music majors, modified majors, and minors, and to members of performing organizations of Dartmouth College.</p>
<p>One course credit is offered for the combined three terms of instruction and will be granted only after successful completion of all three terms of study. The course is included as part of a students official course load only in the first term; a grade is given upon completion of the final term. A student who does not complete the course will receive a non- credit grade. All courses in this sequence (Music 11-16) are offered only on a graded basis; under College regulations the policy must be announced prior to each initial term. A student may repeat the course, if satisfactory progress has been made, within the conditions stated following this description. Dist: ART.</p>
<p>Students not accepted into a course in instrumental or vocal instruction may make private arrangements for study with teachers on the staff of Dartmouth College, at the discretion of the instructor, or they may study off-campus with teachers in the area. No academic credit will be given for off-campus study and the fee is the responsibility of the student.</p>
<p>Chris (and to the extent it is helpful to you, MidWest Viola) - {and Hi Sybbie -summer is great and hopefully for you as well}</p>
<p>To add to some of Sybbie's points to Chris:</p>
<p>"Looks like you are going to be juggling quite a few things. You are definitely going to have to prioritize regarding what you need to accomplish. Are you also looking to do a study abroad in music or something else. I believe that it can be done, but it is going to take some planning." </p>
<p>Very true that its going to take serious prioritizing. But it has been done and I recall hearing a senior speak who managed to combine similar majors and study abroad. Very rewarding for her but not easy. Hopefully you will have or can select a faculty advisor familiar with the challenges of that combination.</p>
<p>If you determine that you just cannot manage the music major, minor, concentration, whatever, you still can audition to join one of the performing ensembles - given that you play French horn, more likely the Wind Symphony. Daughter has enjoyed the experience - its a commitment of a few hours, two evenings/week but a chance to continue to play even though she has determined not to pursue music as a degree. (The Symphony Orchestra rehearses two evenings a week as well). She felt the level of demand of the music increased over the course of the year (one concert/term plus a lawn concert the last week of Spring term) to the point where she found the music fun and challenging by the last concert. She actually enjoyed all of the concerts.</p>
<p>"Students not accepted into a course in instrumental or vocal instruction may make private arrangements for study ... No academic credit will be given for off-campus study and the fee is the responsibility of the student."</p>
<p>You might want to contact the instructor for French Horn over the summer by email and see what he/she can tell you about the french horn section in either the wind syphony or orchestra, about the music major in general and about chances for instruction for credit. The cost for private arrangement for instruction by a staff member is fairly steep. </p>
<p>Your orientation materials should give you information regarding the dates for auditioning for the various performing groups, likely sometime toward the end of orientation. But the link to the Hop I gave above will give you contact information if you want to inquire further about any of the groups.</p>
<p>This link will give you contact information for the Deptment of Music and the name a brief description of the instructors for various instruments:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Emusic/undergrad/%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartmouth.edu/~music/undergrad/</a></p>
<p>I think you and MidwestViola will likely get a helpful response from the department if you contact them.</p>
<p>I will add one thing to Sybbie's excellent summary.
You may want to try for the Honors Chem10 or Honors Bio 19, per the info from the Nathan Smith society. DD will study for the Bio placement test, in hopes of doing Bio 19. I think it gives you credit for 2 courses, despite 2 years of high school chemistry, she does not feel her chemistry prep is strong enough for for Chem 10. If she does not get Bio 19, she will probably take Chemistry in the fall. It might save you one class.</p>
<p>I would suggest that you plan either modified majors in both biochem and music, or major in one and minor in the other. (I'm an MD, who toyed with a music major at one point in college, lots of music major friends). I would get a mentor ASAP, probably from the music department, to help you plan your courses (most colleges like D are inundated with "pre-meds" and outside the Nathan Smith Society, may not be all that helpful to freshmen until some of the wannabees get weeded out. This sounds harsh, but it is the truth, so many people start out in pre-med then change course, it will be hard for the profs to get excited about any individual kid with complicated plans. Also the folks in biochem are looking for budding biochemists, not budding MDs, they will be nice, but maybe not too helpful until they get to know you). The music department, on the other hand, may have fewer majors, lots of minors, and more interest in filling slots (see if you can find out how many majors graduate from each department, to shed some light on this issue). If you have had some formal theory training, or an interest in musicology or music history as well as performance, you may be able to design a better major/minor than following the standard pattern - if you are going to med school, remember it is the experiences you have that will determine your satisfaction with college, not the final major, in other words, you don't have to worry about getting a job. </p>
<p>DD is very uncertain as to major. She is thinking pre-med, but majoring in non-science. If the fall does not go well, she may pursue other interests, and do pre-med in a post-bac program, or spread the pre-reqs over all 4 years. She may do physics, for example, here at home next summer, if Dartmouth will accept the transfer credit - that type of thing. Honestly getting an education at an institution like Dartmouth and qualifying for med school are almost contrary goals - balancing the rigid requirements of med school with exploraing all the great courses a school like Dartmouth has just don't fit together easily!</p>
<p>Her big concern is math and what foreign study to plan for, she may on paper place out of math 3, but is not excited about taking 8? - she would rather take 3 and a statistics course. She should have fulfilled foreign language and be put into First Year Seminar - so she's wondering about how to improve her conversational French and remain proficient in writing, because it may be soph year before she can squeeze in any higher level French classes (and she may just opt to go to France for the FSP). Too many choices.</p>
<p>Sybbbie:</p>
<p>In other words, not much. Dartmouth's music department blows. Period.</p>
<p>to add to Cangel's comments;</p>
<p>School is graudating more biochem majors than music majors</p>
<p>If you check the common data set for class of 2004 8 % of graduating class consisted of Biological science majors, Visual and performing arts majors are 6%</p>
<p>C, </p>
<p>You must have been in my home recently because I did talk to Chicky about doing a Post Bac at Columbia or NYU when she comes home, because it is just as you said, she is interested in so many things, and wants to take everything in. There are definitely too many choices that really grab you at Dartmouth. The first year has changed her because she got the opportunity to participate in a wide variety of things.</p>
<p>She also feels that she wants to enjoy being an undergrad and now feels that she doesn't want to double up on sciences just to arrange a study abroad. She also wants to do a leave term to do an internship. </p>
<p>In the ever evolving choice of majors (hey what happened to classics), she has decided that she is going to be a neuroscience minor vs. a neuroscience major because if the pre-med thing does not work out, she does not want to do a PhD program in psychology. </p>
<p>She is now very interested in some of the courses in yet another department and has now decided to do a modified major in filling out the rest of the major with English courses and Neuropsych minor (she feels this way she keep her options open for whatever comes- Phd, Law schoool or med school). </p>
<p>She is now tinkering with the idea of taking some public policy courses through the Rockefeller center (I am now just hoping that she can but some sort of degree together with all of her varied interest).</p>
<p>She did get an opportunity to speak to some alumni and asked them what did they regret most about being at Dartmouth. The answer was that they did not get a chance to study abroad. She said she cannot see her self being there and not taking advantage of it especially when it was one of the main things she was looking for in a school.</p>
<p>DH's advice to DD - if you take any classes that you could have gotten at XXX - our hometown commuter university - I'll kill you. Now this is at least a little exaggerated, but the point is take advantage of this opportunity. That doesn't mean don't major in science, but I can see her taking only the bare minimum of classes for any major, in order to explore as much as possible.
My advice to her that I think generalizes to most pre-meds at top 25 colleges and univs - take the courses that interest you. If you love science, that's fine, major in science. If you love history, take history classes. Remember that your science grades must be excellent, and the fewer sciences classes you take, the better those grades must be (and possibly, more outside prep will be needed for the MCAT). In practicality, this may mean that the science classes are too competitive for you to do your best, when you have papers to write or music to practice for. Some people need to take a mix of classes - some writing based, some problems, some labs. I personally did my best when I had more lab classes stacked up - I got into that mode of thinking, and could study better - after all med school will be like a whole bunch of lab classes bunched together.</p>
<p>The average age of med students is about a full year older than when I went (I had just turned 22, I went straight through) this is not just because of "older" students, it is because many, many students do 5-6 years of college before first application. Med school admissions committees want a variety of interests and strengths brought to the table. Post- bacs are rather common. the only thing I worry about is med school admissions questioning why you went to Dartmouth then went to School X - couldn't cut the science at D? This is because we have a post-bac program in our town, at a less than selective college, but it would be cheap, and she could live back at home if necessary</p>
<p>Take this one term at a time!</p>
<p>Just a clarification of an unclear point in Cangel's earlier post. Bio 19 only gives you credit for one class, but it does give you the opportunity to play with really sweet equipment.</p>
<p>Thank you, everyone who responded. sybbie719, right now I am so befuddled and confused by the complicated and very long, multistep procedure of getting to know schools individually, that I plan to apply first, think later. I should have January thru March, at least 3 months, to decide which school fits me best, even if I'm not quite sure at the end of the essay writing and perfecting high stress chase the guidance office with an ax process. When this discussion addressed credits and stuff, I'm afraid I got a bit lost, and I was hoping ChrisCuber did too, so I wouldn't be the only one. :) As for ambitions to study abroad, I'll have to look more into that ... I'm not sure it's for me, but the posts are appreciated.</p>
<p>pennypac, what???</p>
<p>has anyone survived a premed/hard science major and music minor at
Dartmouth?</p>