<p>I will add that as far as I can tell, in the oil co. engrg jobs where we live, they probably wouldn't hire you fresh out of school if you didn't have some job experience, either from co-op or summer internships. So not doing that and graduating in 4 yrs could potentially hurt you post grad, not vice versa.</p>
<p>On another aspect of graduation rates. D1 is at big state school and two things I see there for extended time are (a) failure to get the classes you need to graduate on time so you add semesters to get in things like your foreign language units, or even math classes, and (b) kids who change their majors multiple times and run into problems getting in all their credits.</p>
<p>(a) appears to be the result of budget problems, not enuf $$ to hire enuf profs to provide all the sections/times needed. (b) comes from too many kids not knowing what they want to do with themselves - an expensive proposition that.</p>
<p>For A LOT of people I know who are graduating in 5 years (though maybe not the majority of them), it's because they're changing their majors too many times or too late.</p>
<p>I had always paid attention to the 4 year vs longer graduation rate, but didn't think about the difference between taking longer because you took time off to work or travel and just took 6 years to get through. I wonder if there's a way to sort by # of semesters of full time class (non co-op) enrollment instead of graduation rate 4 years after first enrollment. As most have pointed out, taking time for co-op, travel, mission work etc is not the same as 10 or 12 semesters of tuition just because you can't get the work done or the classes you need.</p>
<p>Mercymom and bookaddict: I think you might both be right. Kids change their majors willy-nilly... never thinking of the consequences. I guess that's a good reason for Notre Dame's plan: no one declares until after the first year.</p>
<p>I would be unbelievably angry if my child was at BigState U and the schedules were such that my child could not complete his major due to poor scheduling on the university's part. ARGH!</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Students at private schools seem to graduate sooner. I wonder why?</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>High cost is one huge reason. I've seen plenty of kids drift around relatively inexpensive state schools changing majors, taking light course loads, etc. Adding another year or two doesn't cost all that much. At $40+ K per year, though, few parents are going to encourage their kid to take his/her time and use an extra year or two if needed. In some states, in-state students pay very low tuition and find it attractive to stretch out their undergrad years. A few years ago, at least one southern state (Florida?) was looking at placing a time-limit on in-state tuition because the universities were getting clogged with perpetual undergrads.</p>
<p>At a few state schools, I've heard complaints about difficulty in scheduling requirements to finish in 4 years, but I doubt if that's very common if students plan aggressively from day one.</p>
<p>Same data for top LACs</p>
<p>school / percent grads in bus, sci, enf, comp sci / SAT 75th percentile / grad rate after 4 years / grad rate after 6 years / percent who graduate later than 4 years</p>
<p>Davidson College 13% 1440 89 91 2
Denison University 15% 1370 75 77 2
Kenyon College 11% 1420 85 87 2
Lafayette College 36% 1380 88 90 2
Ursinus College 25% 1340 76 78 2
Washington and Lee University 34% 1470 85 87 2
Trinity College 12% 1390 80 83 3
DePauw University 18% 1320 79 82 3
Wabash College 16% 1273 74 77 3
Centre College 20% 1360 78 81 3
Colby College 20% 1430 84 87 3
College of the Holy Cross 9% 1370 89 92 3
Skidmore College 22% 1330 77 80 3
Haverford College 22% 1500 91 94 3
Muhlenberg College 44% 1320 83 86 3
Austin College 33% 1340 72 75 3
Connecticut College 13% 1390 82 86 4
Illinois Wesleyan University 40% 1360 76 80 4
Hanover College 32% 1300 62 66 4
Grinnell College 22% 1480 86 90 4
Bates College 16% 1400 86 90 4
Mount Holyoke College 13% 1390 79 83 4
Wheaton College 11% 1350 71 75 4
Kalamazoo College 21% 1410 76 80 4
Macalester College 15% 1450 81 85 4
Saint Johns University 45% 1275 78 82 4
Bucknell University 49% 1390 85 89 4
Dickinson College 24% 1370 78 82 4
Juniata College 46% 1270 74 78 4
University of Richmond 41% 1350 79 83 4
Augustana College 41% 1260 73 78 5
Williams College 22% 1520 91 96 5
Carleton College 25% 1490 88 93 5
College of Saint Benedict 21% 1270 75 80 5
St. Olaf College 23% 1400 80 85 5
Millsaps College 42% 1285 60 65 5
Colgate University 14% 1440 84 89 5
Hamilton College 9% 1460 83 88 5
St Lawrence University 14% 1280 71 76 5
Vassar College 8% 1450 85 90 5
Ohio Wesleyan University 25% 1310 60 65 5
Sewanee: The University of the South 13% 1320 72 77 5
Swarthmore College 27% 1530 86 92 6
Hendrix College 23% 1350 60 66 6
Pomona College 15% 1520 87 93 6
Thomas Aquinas College 0% 1400 82 88 6
Wesleyan University 10% 1490 84 90 6
Hobart William Smith Colleges 11% 1270 68 74 6
Franklin and Marshall College 27% 1360 75 81 6
Gettysburg College 36% 1350 74 80 6
Furman University 20% 1390 80 86 6
Presbyterian College 35% 1230 65 71 6
Rhodes College 24% 1370 75 81 6
Middlebury College 10% 1480 88 94 6
University of Puget Sound 27% 1340 68 74 6
Claremont McKenna College 15% 1460 81 88 7
Harvey Mudd College 81% 1560 78 85 7
Occidental College 13% 1380 75 82 7
Colorado College 17% 1400 77 84 7
Knox College 20% 1340 69 76 7
Union College 33% 982 22 29 7
Albion College 28% 1325 67 74 7
Gustavus Adolphus College 25% 1340 60 67 7
Drew University 10% 1280 69 76 7
The College of Wooster 16% 1320 66 73 7
Allegheny College 23% 1310 70 77 7
Wofford College 47% 1300 72 79 7
Bennington College 3% 1320 52 59 7
Randolph-Macon College 17% 1180 53 60 7
Pitzer College 11% 1330 68 76 8
Bowdoin College 16% 1480 84 92 8
Amherst College 16% 1530 88 96 8
Southwestern University 25% 1340 65 73 8
Whitman College 22% 1410 80 88 8
Birmingham Southern College 39% 1290 60 69 9
Mills College 7% 1230 59 68 9
Earlham College 20% 1350 62 71 9
Goucher College 17% 1300 62 71 9
Sarah Lawrence College 0% NA 70 79 9
St Mary's College of Maryland 17% 1340 70 80 10
Willamette University 14% 1360 66 76 10
Wheaton College 17% 1430 78 89 11
Hope College 25% 1330 64 76 12
Bard College 0% 1440 62 74 12
Principia College 17% 1280 65 79 14
Oberlin College 13% 1460 70 85 15
Virginia Military Institute 37% 1220 58 73 15
Lawrence University 18% 1380 62 78 16
Beloit College 18% 1380 55 72 17
Reed College 21% 1380 57 75 18</p>
<p>Um, I can say from experience that Harvard almost forces you to graduate in four years.</p>
<p>If you don't finish up your degree requirements in eight semesters, you have to finish up your degree requirements through the Harvard summer school program, and it's an incredible hassle and expense. You can't enroll in a ninth semester without petitioning an administrative committee to prove that it's completely impossible for you to take the summer school classes. . . and the committee is pretty strict. No, they don't accept credits from any other school; it's Harvard summer school or the highway.</p>
<p>This can really suck. Harvard undergrads have some idea of all this and so they try to do what it takes to wrap up the degree. Otherwise, a lot more of them might hang around.</p>
<p>Maybe other selective colleges have similar policies.</p>
<p>an article from the National Center for Educational Statistics (NCES)</p>
<p>Some students’ paths to the bachelor’s degree involved more stops along the way than those of other students. Forty-one percent of first-time bachelor’s degree recipients in 1999–2000 reported having enrolled in only one undergraduate institution. An additional 35 percent of all graduates attended two institutions, 16 percent attended three institutions, and 8 percent attended at least four institutions during their undergraduate years. About one-fifth of 1999–2000 first-time bachelor’s degree recipients had obtained a certificate or an associate’s degree prior to completing the bachelor’s degree (2 percent had a certificate, and 17 percent had an associate’s degree). In addition, many students took at least 4 months off from postsecondary enrollment before completing the degree. While a majority (64 percent) of 1999–2000 first-time bachelor’s degree recipients did not stop out, 11 percent took off 4–11 months, 6 percent took off 12–23 months, 4 percent took off 24–35 months, and 16 percent interrupted their enrollment for at least 36 months. </p>
<p>Most students who decide to enroll in college do so within 1 year of completing high school (U.S. Department of Education 2001). For those who delay entering college, however, the time to bachelor’s degree completion might be reflected more accurately in the time between entering postsecondary education and completing a bachelor’s degree. This report examined three time periods: the time between high school completion and postsecondary entry, the time between high school completion and bachelor’s degree completion, and the time between postsecondary entry and bachelor’s degree completion. </p>
<p>A majority (83 percent) of first-time bachelor’s degree recipients in 1999–2000 enrolled in college less than 1 year after they had completed high school.2 Six percent took 1–2 years to enroll in college, and another 5 percent took 2–5 years to do so. Another 6 percent did not enroll in postsecondary education until at least 5 years after they had completed high school. Compared with 1992–93 bachelor’s degree recipients, 1999–2000 college graduates were less likely to enroll in college within 1 year of finishing high school (83 vs. 90 percent).</p>
<p>When considering the total time that elapsed between completing high school and finishing the bachelor’s degree, one-third (33 percent) of first-time bachelor’s degree recipients in 1999–2000 completed a bachelor’s degree within 4 years of their high school graduation.3 Another 23 percent took 4–5 years, 11 percent took 5–6 years, and 15 percent took 6–10 years to do so. About one-fifth (19 percent) took even longer after high school to finish college.</p>
<p>Taking into account the delayed entry of many students and examining only the time between postsecondary entry and bachelor’s degree completion, about two-fifths (39 percent) of 1999–2000 first-time bachelor’s degree recipients took 4 years or less to complete a bachelor’s degree, and 72 percent finished in 6 years or less.4 Fourteen percent took more than 10 years to do so. However, compared with 1992–93 bachelor’s degree completers, the 1999–2000 cohort was more likely to complete the degree in 4 years or less (39 vs. 35 percent) and less likely to take 4–5 years between postsecondary entry and graduation (24 vs. 28 percent). (See figure)</p>
<p>A final component of the analysis was restricted to first-time bachelor’s degree recipients who had not interrupted their postsecondary enrollment longer than 6 months. The average time between postsecondary entry and bachelor’s degree completion for these graduates was 4 years and 7 months (55 months),5 and it was longer for graduates of public institutions (57 months) than for graduates of private not-for-profit institutions (51 months). </p>
<p>A number of other factors were related to the average amount of time between postsecondary entry and degree completion. Parents’ educational attainment was inversely related to students’ time to degree: as parents’ education increased, students’ average time to complete a degree decreased. In addition, there was an inverse relationship between students’ cumulative grade-point average and the time it took them to finish a degree. This relationship was found both overall and for graduates of public institutions, but no difference was detected for graduates of private not-for-profit institutions. Delaying enrollment in postsecondary education after completing high school was also associated with the time it took students to complete a bachelor’s degree once they enrolled: students who delayed entry took longer to complete a degree once enrolled. Finally, those who enrolled in more institutions took longer to complete a degree, even when graduates who had extended enrollment interruptions between institutions were excluded. For example, graduates who attended only one institution completed the degree in an average of 4 years and 3 months (51 months), while those who attended two institutions took about 8 months longer, on average (59 months).</p>
<p>
[quote]
What this means is that the cost difference between publics and privates is not as large as you might think.
[/quote]
The cost of four years may be closer, but the privates' aid is cut off after eight semesters. When the private student knows this, timely graduation is all that matters. Breaks can easily be taken which can lengthen the time.</p>
<p>There are some people here at Illinois who does it under 4(engineering), which I think is crazy. I think 4/5 years is about right for engineering majors.</p>
<p>I agree with the money issue for privates. I have a very nice scholarship, but it only lasts 8 semesters. So basically, I know I have to graduate in that amount of time, which means I can't change majors too late or anything like that.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have no trouble getting the classes I need (maybe not always the ones I want, but that doesn't matter so much).</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Students at private schools seem to graduate sooner. I wonder why?</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Not all. Here are some private schools with larger differentials:</p>
<p>Rice 14
U of Denver 15
U of Miama 15
Southern Methodist 16
Carnegie Mellon 17
RPI 18
Case Western 19
Stanford 19
Marquette 21
Baylor 25
Yeshiva 30
Stevens Institute of Tech 37
Brigham Young 47</p>
<p>collegehelp,
Do you know how the rules for reporting 4-year graduate rate? How do they account for transfer students?</p>
<p>Re: privates</p>
<p>Well, there are quite a few people at privates who can afford not to graduate in four years. Either they have the money off-hand, or they have a financial aid package that will help them even if they take longer than four years. These are the ones who might change majors, take a year off, do a co-op, etc.</p>
<p>Also, there's always the people who can't afford a private, and take time off to earn money so they can go back (and I know people who do this rather than go to a public which is cheaper, for they chose their private for specific reasons).</p>
<p>Well, public or private, there are many legit reasons why some students may take more than 4 years to graduate. For example:</p>
<p>1) Taking a winter term internship - You have a better chance as there are fewer competition; and the internship is longer.</p>
<p>2) Taking a semester off studying abroad from a quarter system school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
California Institute of Technology 87% 1570 81 89 8
[/quote]
Supposedly only 87% of Caltech students are business, science, engineering, or computer science majors? That seems low...</p>
<p>If cost is a major factor, how do you explain the difference between UVA (9% graduate later than 4 years) and Texas A&M (40% graduate later than 4 years)? Or, Boston College (3%) versus Stanford (19%)?</p>
<p>I'm curious as to whether quarters vs. semesters factors into these statistics in some manner.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If cost is a major factor, how do you explain the difference between ...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I think it's not just so cut and dried. Yes, cost can be a major factor, but it is not the only factor. A school with a big engineering contingent may have a longer TTD average than another school regardless of what their relative costs might lead us to predict about their average. There may be a lot of factors, and thus any explanation of differences that rely on one variable can be countered with numerous examples that dont fit "the rule."</p>