<p>I'm lost and confused yet again with regard to D2. Here's the back story. Her freshman and soph PSAT scores were in the mid 2-teens and I think they were pretty accurate. The junior PSAT was 196 (710, 690, 560) because she was "not in the mood to test that day" which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about this child. She is doing the full IB-diploma in a tough grading school. She's got a 3.6 UW but is in top 3% of a class of 778, and some truly interesting ECs (not hooks, just unique and interesting), leadership and years-long commitment. My thought is that Bryn Mawr would be the perfect school for her (she wants to study classics and eventually become a curator), but she absolutely will not reach and, frankly, doesn't much care where she goes. She's the kind of person who will do fine wherever she goes and get a good education, but she isn't into the whole "experience" thing and couldn't possibly care less about prestige in any aspect of her life. She wants to stay pretty close, within about 1 1/2 hours, of home and she doesn't want a lot of debt. Therefore, she's looking at schools that are probably safe for her. In particular, she really likes Seton Hall because it seems a perfectly fine choice in the right location and that's good enough for her. I'm in no position to judge, of course, but now she's looking at St. Peter's in Jersey city pretty seriously. What do you all think? Its SAT range begins in the low 400s which seems a big difference to me but what do I know? Is there a limit to how low makes sense? She's also looking at New Paltz, Marist, Hunter, Siena as well as Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Catholic and possibly Loyola of Maryland and Binghamton. Advice anyone?</p>
<p>Is your D the type that cares/doesn't care whether she's the best person in the class, or what kind of students she's surrounded by? Ferreting out this information may help point you in the right direction for framing your discussions with her.</p>
<p>That's a very good question FindAPlace. Something to think about. she's a bossy little cuss who expects to run the world, or at least her classroom, and I don't think she cares how smart her classmates are because she's going to do her own thing anyway.</p>
<p>Great question. We are in the same boat. Ds is not at all concerned about prestige and would be happy to go to the nearby state school with a 75% of 1170 -- way below ds's numbers. He just got a "good vibe" when we visited. I intended it to be a safety pick, not the eventual winner. I just really believe this wouldn't be a good fit, though he's very mellow and would be happy anywhere.</p>
<p>I'm so glad someone is in the same boat (not that I wish this on you!). We're really struggling.</p>
<p>The issue isn't just how smart her classmates are... but also how well prepared they are. If the professor has to stop every other minute to explain where Athens was or why Latin overtook Aramaic as the primary language of business/commerce/contracts in the Near East in the first century, she may get frustrated pretty quickly.</p>
<p>I don't know that SAT scores tell this part of the story... but if she's kicking the tires on colleges where most kids graduated in the third quartile of their HS she may feel it pretty quickly.</p>
<p>Of the schools you've listed, I think she could find "her people" at Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Catholic, Binghamton, Loyola maybe, Seton Hall maybe. What about Fordham? Hunter? Rutgers? Queens college? St Johns?</p>
<p>How about the EC's- do her particular outside interests lend themselves better to certain schools than others? While she may not be concerned about prestige, she might be concerned about the quality of experience outside the classroom regarding her interests. </p>
<p>Also- Has she done any research on how curators are made? Where do they come from, which school may have the best placement rates, and opportunity to intern or work on campus in the art museum?</p>
<p>Your daughter's stats are way above my kid's and a lot of college disregard the writing anyway. Look up the merit aid cutoffs for New Paltz; I think yours would qualify since mid fifty percent is like 1110-1290. Or the CUNY honors programs. I think Drew in NJ gives merit aid for your test range as does Manhattanville in Westchester. If your daughter isn't "all about prestige" she'll have a ton of really great financial choices. I think St. Peters is way too safe.</p>
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What about Fordham? Hunter? Rutgers? Queens college? St Johns?
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I think Fordham would be great but they're not very generous, and same with St. John's. I think she'd love, love, love Fordham, particularly the neighborhood.</p>
<p>Queens is a hellacious commute, though, and Hunter is definitely on her list but their admission is a bit weird, so who knows?</p>
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Also- Has she done any research on how curators are made? Where do they come from, which school may have the best placement rates, and opportunity to intern or work on campus in the art museum?
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<p>Barnard and Bryn Mawr for sure. She reads the Bryn Mawr classics review avidly and one of the curators of the Getty did her undergrad there and my daughter was beyond impressed. I agree that that should be a major consideration, but she sees the museum studies program at Seton Hall (master's) and is aware of a bunch of students from "name" colleges who attend there. I don't think she has the change in heck of being admitted to Barnard, though.</p>
<p>zooser, if she truly wants to study the classics one thing I would mention is that so few students still pursue classics that she will surely get enormous personal attention almost wherever she goes. I say this as someone who took one of my majors in Latin, at two huge universities. It was not unusual to have two or three person classes. Granted this was in the early 70s. Perhaps there has been a huge revival, but I somewhat doubt it. </p>
<p>So if that's what she wants to do, I recommend that she look less at the school than at the faculty in the particular area she wants to pursue. She'll be spending a lot of time with them, and vice versa.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I seem to recall that Catholic in DC has a very good classics program.</p>
<p>zoosermom - I think that for someone like your D who is obviously bright and has gone through the IB program at her school and done so well, a school like St. Peters in Jersey City is not the right choice at all. Sorry. My D gets bombarded by mail/email from them as well (though she hasn't even looked at any of it). Remember, that while your D doesn't think she'd care about how smart her classmates are, that will influence things like class discussions and opportunities available to students. She's used to being with kids in an IB program! Believe me, she will care and notice the difference when she's with a completely different pool of students. I think it would matter less if she were planning to study accounting or computers - courses which are pretty straightforward lectures. Her areas of interest would contain more discussion-based classes, I'm sure. I wish you a lot of luck. Maybe suggest that she apply to a few of your choices as well as her own, and then visit them. Let her sit in on a course or two, if she's willing (my D probably wouldn't be willing). She may have a change of heart.</p>
<p>BTW, I disagree and think your D will have a great chance of getting into Barnard. I'm sure her SATs will be higher than her PSATs - hopefully, she will take them more seriously - though I understand you can't be sure of that. Also, I think Barnard will recognize that being in the top 3% of her high school and having gone through a difficult IB program is pretty impressive. Plus, I think the fact that she's from NYC will work in her favor. She should absolutely apply.</p>
<p>You guys are the absolute best. Lots of good advice and information that I couldn't get anywhere else.</p>
<p>I had the idea that St. Peter's wasn't right, but I couldn't articulate why. Now I can.</p>
<p>MilwDad, she's looking hard at Catholic and if she can bring herself to travel it'll be very high on her list. They have some thingy where students can study at or through (or something) the Vatican museum. She also has the idea that "Catholics" know from Classics.</p>
<p>zm: Tell your D that you don't necessarily want her to attend, you just want her to apply to the reach schools. Based on what you say of her stats I don't think Barnard is out of reach. Once she gets in and visits the colleges and they give her some love (and maybe some financial aid) she may get comfortable with the idea.</p>
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She's the kind of person who will do fine wherever she goes and get a good education
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<p>This sentence summed it up for me. This student has tons of options...and they clearly do not need to be the most "prestigious" or "competitive" schools. That is a wonderful gift to your family because it opens the doors to some lesser known, but fine schools. I'd let this kid be in the driver's seat on her college selection. Give some helpful guidance, but then let her make some choices herself. If SHE is happy, does well, and can thrive....than the college choice is the right one even if it's "no name U".</p>
<p>She should definitely sit in on one or preferably more classes in her preferred areas in each school she's applying to. She sounds like a girl who wouldn't enjoy a fifteen minute digression on something she already considered obvious; in a school with students with lesser stats, she might find herself getting impatient with the pace of the discussion. That'd be good to know before enrolling.</p>
<p>zoosermom - Catholic U, while not close to home, is a very simple trip with a variety of options. She can take the Metro which stops right across the street from the campus to Union Station and take Amtrak home, or she can take the Metro to Reagan airport and fly home. I realize Staten Island adds a little to the trip, but it's certainly easy enough. And the driving trip isn't too bad - we do it pretty regularly (not to Catholic U, but to DC) - and it's easier for you since you're already in Staten Island. For us, the hardest part of the trip is getting to and through Staten Island..........lol.</p>
<p>Is your D a junior or a senior right now? If a junior, then you have some opportunity to visit schools. Hopefully, she will get a feel that will help her see the differences in the various schools she has listed. </p>
<p>My D will likely be a classics major at Princeton, where she is a freshman. Last year, we traveled extensively to various and sundry places- one of which was Franklin and Marshall in Lancaster. A small school, set in the middle of nowhere, with a decent classics department and a very "practical" approach to study- lots of abroad experiences, etc. Your D is high enough score wise to likely earn big merit money from them. </p>
<p>It looks, though, from her list, that she has a wide range of general campus environments on the list. Visiting would surely help narrow her thinking down to where she might like to spend 4 years. </p>
<p>I agree that Bryn Mawr is great- the whole consortium opportunities there are spectacular too. </p>
<p>Her particular interests in classics would be interesting to more clearly identify. Catholics definitely know medieval- but not as much the classics, per se- ie Greek and Roman. The thingy at the Vatican would be cool, but a long term career in the Church would almost certainly require theological background and commitment as well. Is she interested in that?</p>
<p>If she is "in the mood" when she takes the SAT, she should have very decent scores, and that is what will be important for admissions.
She may think that she can do well wherever she goes but in my opinion, if she is in a small major and small classes, the caliber of other students will have an impact on her own learning experience. She could still get lots of attention from the profs by going to their office hours and perhaps taking independent classes with them but her classroom experience may be a bit frustrating if the students are functioning at a totally different level from hers.
I'd suggest taking her to visit Barnard and Bryn Mawr to get her enthusiastic about doing her best.</p>
<p>By all means, have her apply to a wide range of schools, but if she does wind up "loving her safety" - well, isn't that a good thing? (Providing, of course, that the safety is otherwise a good match.) My D applied to a wide variety of schools, was accepted to almost all of them, and immediately chose her safety - and honestly, it was never even a close competition. She's now a freshman there and loves it, and I love the merit scholarship. I also loved how her senior year of high school was almost stress-free.</p>
<p>In many ways she sounds like your daughter - opinionated, maybe a little bossy, and couldn't care a whit about status or prestige. Most important, she is also the kind of person who does well wherever she is (a lot of internal motivation.) It worked out for us.</p>