How many more years of Spanish would you recommend?

Pre-College Issues High School Life
1

I searched, read, and still need reassurance:
My daughter (finishing 9th grade) is taking AP Spanish Lang right now and took the test today. She may be switching schools next year, and the new academic advisor is positive that colleges care about the number of years of language taken during high school regardless of the level reached. The advisor insists that she needs to start a new language for 2-3 years, as the school does not offer any classes beyond AP Span Lang. Spanish is not a heritage language for her, although she was in a Spanish immersion program in elementary school.

Could you opine on the following scenarios?
A) She remains at her present HS. Technically they offer AP Span Lit, but weā€™ve already been informed that it wonā€™t be offered next year; she is registered for a Latin American Studies class conducted in Spanish. How many more years of Spanish would you recommend?
B) She goes to a public charter school. We could have her take a DE class in Spanish lit at the local junior college or do AP Span Lit online through CTY. Would you do one more year? Two? Preferences? I confess Iā€™m somewhat concerned that the analyzing skills of a 10th grader may not be up to snuff for AP Span Lit, although my kid is a strong student.
C) She goes to the aforementioned new school. They wonā€™t approve any dual enrollment FL classes for their diploma. (Long story.) She could still take a DE class, but sheā€™d have to enroll in a new FL for 2-3 years. Thoughts on this course of action?

Yes, I know we could look at individual colleges for their requirements. Sheā€™s too young; we canā€™t target anything at this point, so Iā€™m looking for more generalized advice. Yes, I understand that most colleges (aside from UDel?!?) look at level achieved > # of years. But Iā€™ve heard that stopping after frosh year is a big no-no. So how many more years would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!

2

Does this high school require some number of years of FL for graduation even if the student completes AP level earlier than that?

Whether or not college courses taken while in high school are included as dual enrollment at the high school, they will be included in college applications. So if she attends this new high school, but it does not require any additional FL for high school graduation, and she continues to take more advanced Spanish courses at a local college (the college will likely have its own placement testing and/or use AP score to recommend placement), colleges will see that she continued to more advanced levels of Spanish.

3

This particular high school does require 2/3 years of foreign language taken at their high school to get a diploma/honors diploma, respectively. Private school, obviously. I didnā€™t realize they wouldnā€™t allow DE courses or AP Span Lit taken outside the school to count for their requirement.

4

Ideally, one more (or equivalent) in Spanish or 2 of a new language.

While all colleges (except UDel) will consider the level attained to be acceptable, I am of the opinion that most would like at least 2 of those years to be taken in HS. If the local cc offers Spanish courses beyond 2nd year, she can do that. The fact that the HS doesnā€™t accept the credits does not matter to colleges.

If che chooses option C, she can just switch to whatever language the new school offers and take their 2 year requirement.

FWIW, the school she goes to next year should be chosen based on criteria other than language offerings and policies.

As for AP Spanish Lit, speaking from experience, think twice about taking if not totally in love with analyzing Spanish Lit. Itā€™s AP English Lit on steroids and in Spanish. And with a very extensive required reading list. There are alternatives to post-AP Spanish other than AP Spanish Lit.

5

Iā€™d be inclined to take 2-3 years in a new language ā€” maybe one that overlaps with Spanish, like Italian, if available?

And then I would also seek put some activity or extracurricular to help keep her Spanish skills sharp. She is already proficient and it seems a shame to lose that when she might want to pursue bilingual opportunities in college and beyond, apart from the impact on college admissions.

6

Seems like some of the possible ways are:

  1. The Latin American Studies course conducted in Spanish at her current school.
  2. Spanish courses at a local college that advance beyond the level she is currently at (colleges commonly have their own placement tests and/or use AP scores).
  3. Talking in Spanish to any classmates who are heritage speakers.

Perhaps a question not clearly answered is, what would she prefer out of the following:

  • Continue to more advanced courses in Spanish.
  • Take some other language for 2-3 years.
  • Be done with foreign language in high school.
7

I would not recommend that she simply stop foreign language at this point. She could continue with Spanish (and believe me, Spanish at a 2 yr college will be a joke, nowhere near the level that she needs). She needs Spanish literature taught in Spanish at this point, and perhaps Spanish history and culture taught in Spanish after that - probably only going to get this at a 4 yr institution that offers an undergrad Spanish major, at the very least, may even need one offering a masters level degree in Spanish.

The other option is for her to start another language. Does she have any budding career interests? That might guide her choice. I found that even the 2 mandatory years of Latin that I had in middle school helped with vocabulary and medical terminology. For some areas of academic research, the academic papers from the 19th century were largely in German, so much so that in many fields, ability to read German is still required for a PhD, so that you have access to the early research in the field.

How does she feel about it? I agree that foreign language shouldnā€™t be driving your choice of high school for her.

BTW, your daughter is evidence of the power of foreign language immersion programs begun early on. We still havenā€™t caught on to this, in the US.

1 Like
8

@ucbalumnus , Itā€™s a good point that she can take whatever she wants to outside of high school and still send another transcript with her college application. For the new school that would just mean taking two languages at once (one in school and one outside, so weā€™ll have to talk about that).

@skieurope , one more year feels like what we expected to do. She does really like Spanish and says she is up for doing the Spanish literature course, but I donā€™t know if she really knows if she loves analyzing literature in Spanish. When you say there are alternatives to post-AP Span, do you mean at a 4 year school (as suggested by @parentologist ?) Or something else? I looked at the catalog of one of the local private colleges. The literature started at the 300 level classes. If (and thatā€™s a big if at this school) they would let a not-yet sixteen year old take a class, do I think sheā€™d be able to analyze literature at the level of ~20 year olds? That sounds challenging, to say the least. Maybe Iā€™m missing something and should reach out to the department and see what they think is appropriate. I did look online and U of AZ has an online program with upper level lit classes, but they require her to be sixteen, which she wonā€™t be at the start of the semester.

@CMA22 , If she could choose, sheā€™d maximize Spanish. Since finishing her immersion program in 5th grade, she already complains that sheā€™s losing her grammar/vocabulary, etc. (Clearly, moving from having English an hour/day to Spanish an hour/day does lend itself to less practice.) She did say that if she had to do a new language, sheā€™d consider Latin. (Iā€™d choose French, but itā€™s not my life.)

@ucbalumnus , I donā€™t think she wants to stop Spanish. Sheā€™d stop if the logistics became too challenging to make it happen, or if she was dying to take another course that kicked it out of contention. Her preference is to continue. Iā€™m just finding it challenging if she wants to do AP Span Lit. I can only find it accredited online at CTY (Hopkins Center for Talented Youth) or at a crazy expensive 1:1 accredited school. I thought the local CC might have enough, but maybe Iā€™m wrong. Iā€™ll reach out to the instructor of the class I thought would work.

@parentologist I think sheā€™d like to continue in Spanish if we can make the logistics work. She is all over the map for career. (Wants to try dancing professionally, but is then considering becoming a counselor, teaching, physical therapy, and many other things that float in and out of discussion.) If she needs to switch, sheā€™s open to Latin. (An aside, but one class she thought sounded interesting at the new school was English vocab from Latin and Greek roots. I donā€™t think sheā€™ll have time for it, but maybe sheā€™ll get the Latin!) As to her feelings, I think she would rather not do both languages (part of the reason for switching schools is to give her more control over her schedule, and taking both languages would be adding an extra solid and 8 classes at least for the fall semester, when sheā€™d take 7 at her original school), would prefer to continue in Spanish, but could probably be convinced to switch if she had to. I use Spanish regularly at work, so she sees that it can be a bonus in your career, so I think sheā€™d like to keep it up.

I love Spanish immersion programs. My kids have greatly benefitted from them. But Iā€™m going to ask my son to just start in Spanish 4 when he starts high school. (The kids have a choice; daughter decided to take AP Span this year bc ā€œall my friends are taking itā€.)

9

It could be at a 4-year college. Or it could be at a cc if they offer upper level Spanish. But post-AP Spanish does not have to be literature. My college had courses in theater, cinema, and culture. It also had a course, which I took, in the govt department, on Spanish politics, taught in Spanish. It just depends upon what offerings are available. But even a more focused lit class, e.g. Latin American Shirt Story might be preferable to the race-through-the-ages AP Spanish Lit class.

10

Post-AP Spanish would depend on how strong the actual Spanish skills are. For example, some college Spanish departments recommend higher placement for AP 5 than for AP 3. You may want to look up course offerings in Spanish at local colleges to see what they would offer for students who place at various levels.

11

@skieurope This may be a really dumb question: do colleges count classes taught in Spanish as ā€œforeign languageā€ classes when counting how many years she took? I was wondering how clear it would be, even with the Latin American Studies class at her high school, which falls under ā€œsocial studies electiveā€ even though it is taught in Spanish. And I appreciate those thoughts about the wide variety that might be available. Back to looking at course catalogs!

@ucbalumnus , weā€™ll know what score she gets in a couple of months. I suspect a 4 or 5, but weā€™ll see.

12

I think you could have the GC make the case that such a course should count if it covered the 4 major language areas of reading, writing, speaking, and listening.

I should also point out that very few colleges are going to care one way or another, with the more selective colleges being more of the issue.

13

My daughter was/is also good at Spanish. She wasnā€™t in the district immersion program (did not get the lottery) but did go to some rigorous immersion programs in Barcelona. She took Spanish 3 as a freshman in HS and then directly AP Spanish Lit in 10 grade. She loved AP Spanish Lit. The reading list is extensive but you donā€™t need to read the whole books. They had a very experienced native speaking teacher, and she prepared them with the info you need for the exam. She got a 5. My D is very strong in literature (English and Spanish) and loves to read.

This fulfilled our HS language requirements and she did not take another Spanish class afterwards. Instead, she did a Spanish book club led by the same teacher where they would read and discuss Spanish lit once per week. The same year (junior) she took the National Spanish exam level 6 and got a medal. She had gold medals on level 4 and 3 before, but level 6 is two years above the last level in HS. Very few kids take level 6 and there were only 13-15 medals in the whole of California. The Spanish teacher LOVED my daughter and wrote her a glowing recommendation. She still gets in touch with us 4 years later to ask about my daughter. My D was very successful in the college admission process in 2018.

So, there is no need to take additional classes as long as she can show commitment to the language IMO. Colleges only want to see learning up to AP Spanish Lang. And, yes, any cultural class taught in Spanish counts as a FL class.

1 Like
14

@Mumfromca , This is a great story! Itā€™s good to hear that other 10th graders have taken AP Spanish Lit. Iā€™ve never heard of the National Spanish Exam before. Iā€™ll look into it, but was it done at the local high school?

After reading all the comments last night I found an upper division class she could take at our local-ish Cal State assuming she passes the AP test. ā€œAdvanced Composition and Syntaxā€ sounds like a really good course for her. Thereā€™s also a fly-through-the-ages Spanish Lit class (it sounds a lot like AP Span Lit) thatā€™s one less credit, but I actually think sheā€™d prefer the comp/syntax one, as she has told me sheā€™d like to improve her grammar. But they both sound like viable options, and it appears that passing the AP Span Lang with >=3 qualifies her for them.

15

The National Spanish Exam is what the name implies - a national exam given to thousands of kids in the US. There is a National German exam, a National Latin exam, etc. It is given to non-native speakers. We did not know about this either but our school participates and proctors the exam every year in class at various levels.

It is my understanding that colleges do not expect that you take classes outside of your HS unless language/culture is your main EC and you plan to major or minor in something similar (e.g., International relations). I think they expect to see that you took advantage of all classes given at the HS before signing up for college classes.

A score of ā€˜4ā€™ on AP Spanish Lang fulfills their language requirement (no need to take language at all) and a score of ā€˜5ā€™ gives you additionally 10 credits at Stanford.

16

@Mumfromca , Iā€™m not expecting my daughter to continue with Spanish after this coming year unless
a) she wants to keep taking Spanish classes. I do think it will feel weird to her to not have Spanish in her life, but she has other interests that may edge it out from a time perspective.
b) sheā€™s at the high school that requires two to three years more of language to get their diploma.
c) if she stays at her present high school, she wonā€™t have tapped out its offerings. Might she take AP Span Lit her junior year, if offered? Maybe. ā€œtook advantage of all classesā€ becomes nebulous for me when they arenā€™t offering AP Span Lit but they do offer a Spanish cinema class and the aforementioned Latin American Studies class. And the school profile says they offer AP Span Lit. Maybe the GC can explain it wasnā€™t offered while she was there if it ends up not? I think her struggle may come if she takes Latin American Studies next year and AP Span Lit isnā€™t offered the following year, but is her senior year. Does she take the year off from language and then try to go back? Anyway, weā€™ll cross that bridge when we get there.

The main reason Iā€™m looking at college classes is because if she leaves her present hs none of the other options weā€™re considering have any Spanish classes to offer her. If we want to get another year in, that seems to be the best option.

17

The levels and their correspondence to years of high school Spanish and AP and IB courses are listed at https://www.nationalspanishexam.org/index.php/en/exam-administration/competition-levels

18

Your situation is different than ours so my examples might not apply. Our HS wants only 2 yrs of FL for graduation. In terms of college admission, my D skipped 2 levels and took only 2 years FL in HS and had no issues.

My son skiped one level, took Spanish 3 in 9th grade and AP Spanish Lang (5) in 10th grade. He also loves Spanish but does not have his sister gift for languages, and his reading skills are average. He took AP Spanish Lit in senior year and did not take the AP exam. He goes to Stanford and got the credit for FL as I mentioned above. Anyway, good luck to your daughter.