<p>Hello Everyone! </p>
<p>Thanks for reading my post. I am applying to PhD programs in biomedical sciences for fall 2010 admission cycle. I was wondering what is the good number of schools to apply? What is the range of schools that people typically apply in each category: safety, reach schools? </p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the help!!</p>
<p>I applied to 9, that was far too many. I would suggest that you find 5, making sure that you would be happy at any of them.</p>
<p>I’ll apply to 4 reach, 2 match, 2 safe…</p>
<p>4-10?</p>
<p>More important than the number is the fit - how many schools are there at which you would be happy? Don’t apply somewhere because it is a “reach” or a “safety” if you would be unhappy when they are your only offer.</p>
<p>Agreed – only apply to places where you would be happy to attend for 5-6 years of your life. You don’t have to go to grad school, and it would almost certainly be better to take an extra year getting in (and do research to beef up your resume) than to go to a program that doesn’t fit your interests.</p>
<p>I applied to 9 programs, and like belevitt, thought it was too many by the time I was done with interviews. I think 5-6 is more reasonable.</p>
<p>For clarity, I applied to 3 - probably should have applied to more but there were no others that met that “happiness” criteria.</p>
<p>I’m on the super-low extreme and only applied to one school seriously (two total), but it’s because I spent two years after undergrad in full-time research, got myself into a small niche I adore, and found a collaborator of my PI whose work I completely fell in love with. Like with cosmicfish, nowhere else would have made me happy. It felt weird to have all my eggs in one basket, but it worked out perfectly.</p>
<p>The point is that the appropriate number of schools will depend on you and your desires. If you’ve got strong credentials, tried and true interests, and mutually interested future PIs, then you’ll be fine with 2-4 schools. If your interests are broad, you have many people you’re interested in working with, or don’t have the strongest credentials, then 4-7 is perfectly appropriate.</p>
<p>I would apply to as many schools as you can and in a variety of different places! I fell in love with the school that I though I did not want to go to, and I hated the schools that I thought I wanted to go to. You never know about a school until you visit, so you need to schedule lots of visits.</p>
<p>I would say apply to ~10. If you want to go to a top15 (and have choices), apply to many more. Having observed many friends/classmates apply to grad school, most people will get accepted to 1/5 of top 10 programs they apply to (even with pubs, strong letters of rec, 1400+ GRE, and 3.8+GPA). If you apply to 10 top schools you will likely get a couple interviews, and one will hopefully be a good fit. </p>
<p>I would have 1-2 safety schools. Also apply to schools that are not along the coasts. There are excellent schools in the south and midwest that do not get as many applications.</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
<p>^^^ Seriously? Ten? </p>
<p>The more applications sent out, the less attention each school gets. I’d say cut it down to seven max, then spend that extra time cultivating relationships with prospective PIs, polishing the SOPs, and really getting to know each program’s details. They want to see an applicant who shows enthusiasm for their specific program and knows why it’s a good personal fit, not someone casting a wide, generic net. Perhaps that’s why people with top grades and scores weren’t getting in as many places as they expected. Too many apps means each school may perceive themselves as an afterthought. The better you get to know programs before application time, the more informed your application choices will be. Open-minded is great, but so is making the most of your time and money by getting in fewer, but better, applications.</p>
<p>^^^Good point evoviro</p>
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<p>I hate to hijack the thread but:</p>
<p>what do you recommend then for entrance into a program? i understand you can read about the program, and come up with reasons for why it’s a good fit for you. are you supposed to include these reasons in your SOP? Also, how do you cultivate these relationships? thanks.</p>
<p>Send a short introduction email to faculty whose research interests you. You can find this info by looking them up on pubmed. Just explain who you are, that you are interested in potentially doing graduate school with them. Avoid anything that requires lengthy replies. Also, send these to a lot of people you might be interested in, some PI’s don’t respond.</p>
<p>How early are you supposed to do this?</p>
<p>The ideal number might vary. It depends on:
a) how much time you have
b) your stats
c) research focus
d) your values (e.g. location, prestige, etc)
e) many more</p>
<p>Examples:
Someone with a lot of time and without a specific research topic in mind could apply to 10+ schools. Conversely, an applicant who has a defined research project and currently working non-stop/in school should concentrate in applying to selected programs with PIs in your chosen topic.</p>
<p>On the other hand, applicants with top notch GPA, GRE, Pubs and LOR have the luxury to apply only to 4-5 schools. For most of us, it’s safe to apply to (at least) 1 ‘maybe accepted - well qualified’, 4-5 ‘most likely accepted’, 1-2 ‘very likely to be the top applicant.’</p>
<p>To comment on previous posts regarding ‘only apply to school where you would be happy’ - I partially agree. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to predict your future happiness. Your values might change. Your expectations might not be met. Things might be different from your initial impression during the interview/visit. Your dream school could turn to be a nightmare or just a mediocre experience. My point is: an excellent program in “an absolute NO-NO location to you” might be worth trying for; a mediocre program with amazing PIs whom you would be interested to work with can also be a great option; a program with diverse research and great environment could also be a winner… and many other possible combination. </p>
<p>GL!</p>
<p>I think that there’s a huge fear factor before applying to grad school, which is why so many of the above applied to 7-10 programs. Only in retrospect did those individuals feel it was too many. I’m sure that everyone on the applying side is wondering how many people thought, “Thank God I applied to 10 programs!” They don’t want to be the students who applied to five programs and didn’t get in anywhere. I don’t think there’s any way of tempering that anxiety.</p>
<p>And unlike in undergraduate admissions, I think it’s more difficult to determine the reach-match-safety levels. Yes, applicants probably know the top programs in their field, but they don’t know what it takes to get in. And the next tier is often more fuzzy.</p>
<p>I’m watching my daughter go through this now. She has not a clue what is within her reach and what is not. All she knows is what she wants to study.</p>
<p>Doesn’t it kind of vary by program as well? My friends applying for English PhD programs, for example, applied to a lot of places (10+) because the admissions process was SO competitive.</p>
<p>I’m a bit unsure of how many to apply to, but I’m leaning toward applying to around 10. I am going to devote a significant amount of time to it and I really want to make sure that I have good options to choose from.</p>
<p>To clarify my last post, I am only suggesting that someone apply to 10 + schools if they want to attend a top program (or have bad stats). If someone will be content going to a mid-level program (or have very defined interests), you can apply to fewer. Yeah this is lots of applications, but the time/money is well spent if you can find a program that is a good fit. To save money add schools that dont have an app fee (wash U, Baylor, UT southwestern, etc). If you get too many interviews, you can cut at that stage.</p>
<p>In regards to contacting faculty, I do not think that this really helps in general. Many people dont do this and they are fine in this process. If you are interested in a limited number of people in a program, it may be beneficial to talk to those people before you apply to ensure they are taking students. Contacting people on admissions or program directors may be beneficial (esp if it is getting late). This helped me get into a least one school. I know tons of people that talked to PI’s during the application phase. One of my friends at a top 3 program, talked with multiple people at a different ~top20 school. This school was his first choice. The people he talked to said that they really wanted him in their labs and to stay in touch. He did not even get an interview at this school. In summary, I do not think contacting faculty helps much. If you apply to plenty of schools and broadly, you will get into a good school without contacting PIs before hand.</p>
<p>Targetwalmart, I know multiple top applicants (3.8+ from top schools, 1400-1500 GRE, 90%+ subject, 1st author pubs, good recs). Most of these people got into top10s, but they still only got interviews at 1/5 top 10s that they applied too. Even top applicants should not apply to 4-5 schools (unless they dont want top 20). I still say 10 is a good number so that they will have a couple top schools to choose from. I know a number of people that should have gone to a top program, but they did not apply to enough schools. The top programs that they got into were not a good fit, so they are at a mid-level program.</p>
<p>In Psych, 15 is average and 10 is low.</p>
<p>The OP did specify biomedical sciences…</p>
<p>I think the fundamental thing I take issue with is when people apply to graduate school more to “stay on track” with their education and less because they have really found what they want to do. Having top numbers doesn’t make someone truly ready for grad school. Three or four years of undergraduate research and publications doesn’t necessarily either. When people apply to ten+ schools so they can “find the right fit” it’s an alarm bell for me. The top schools can afford to look past numbers for grounding, direction and confidence in applicants. If students don’t have that, then they might be wise to reconsider applying that year if they really want to succeed at a top school.</p>
<p>All to be taken with appropriate grains of salt… I know I’m one of the major supporters of taking time off between undergrad and grad school, and only applying when one has truly vetted the field of interest. If I had applied during undergrad two years ago, I’d have been one of those kids with top stats applying to many schools but left with few admission choices because I lacked that grounding and solid direction. Now, I will be heading to my top choice of UCSF in the fall, and can hit the ground running with my future PI.</p>
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I think this is an important point that many college seniors miss. Some people are very intent on going to grad school straight from undergrad in the interest of “saving time”, but they fail to understand that taking time off to clarify one’s scientific interests is an outstanding way to actually get through grad school faster.</p>