Ok give me some numbers here…how many schools did your child apply to, trying to get some sort of average here to go by. Is this listed in another thread? Like “D applied at x schools and got accepted at x number…” Seems like I’ve read this somewhere
I think most of us have listed them in the Final Decisions Background thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1724734-final-decisions-background-class-of-2019.html
My D applied to 15 and was accepted to all of them academically. Out of those 15 she was accepted into two BFA MT programs.
If numbers are correct in my head D applied to:
8 BFA programs (if I were doing it again, I would add a couple more- maybe 10 for a nice round number?) academically accepted at all, artistically accepted at 3
2 BAs that were academic reaches - accepted at 1
3 BAs that were academic safeties - accepted at all 3. We probably overdid the safeties, but I wanted her to have choices if BFAs didn’t work out
Read the Final Decision/Background thread for the last several years and you will learn a lot. My daughter auditioned for 11 schools. She did not have a non-audition safety.
My daughter including walkins auditioned for 15. Academically accepted to 13, wait listed at 1 the other one they did artistic and academic together-so not sure on that. She’s was artistcally accepted to 4 and 1 invited her to re-audition on campus in the fall. My daughter didn’t do any safeties so we felt we needed a high number.
I do not think there is a magic number or a one number that fits all. Probably more important than number is the appropriateness of the list for that particular applicant AND that it is well balanced. The number is going to vary depending on a lot of factors. If someone is undecided between BFA and BA, their list may be longer as they need enough of each type on the list. For someone who is primarily desiring a BFA, a typical list of colleges may be anywhere between 10-14 (this includes the non-audition safeties). So, the answer really is…it depends on many things. But that general ballpark is where most land and should be about the right amount of schools if the list is appropriate to the individual candidate and well balanced. I rarely think anyone needs more than 15 schools.
That said, when my D applied, she only wanted to apply to BFA in MT programs and had no BAs and no non-audition safeties (though I really don’t recommend that!).
She applied to 8 BFA in MT programs.
5 BFA in MT acceptances
1 BFA Priority Waitlist
1 BFA deferral in EA (with academic acceptance), denied in RD
1 BFA full denial
I do think her list was right for her. But that doesn’t mean it is right for the next person. I think the college list building is a crucial part of the college admissions process and having the right list for an applicant is important, as a lot follows from there. Even then, the odds are tough. But a well balanced list in terms of academic odds (in relation to the candidate’s academic profile) and artistic odds (range of most selective programs to not as difficult, though still long odds), etc. I recommend two non-audition BAs on the list where at least one is also an academic safety (and if needed, a financial safety too).
Son applied to 3 non-audition safeties and auditioned for 10 programs. Academically accepted to all (except CMU which he wasn’t artistically accepted). Artistically accepted to 3.
S applied to 7 BFA/BM programs, accepted artistically into 4 (one off the wait list) and 2 BA reaches with strong theater programs (Yale and Northwestern -both nos). He decided he did not want to apply to BA safeties; he said he would re-audition if he didn’t get into a BFA or reach BA. VERY unusual and we are NOT following that strategy with D. So far, she has 10 BFA, 3 BA and 2 BA safeties on her list. I would say that is more typical.
@artskids What would be an example of a BA safety and non safety school? I really think my D wants a program with mostly MT components, so we aren’t going for any strictly “straight acting/theater” programs because she wants the dance and voice also. She is a singer first and foremost.
^^What is a safety or “non-safety” (Reach or Match) is relative to an individual candidate. One person’s safety may be another person’s reach. Some BA schools, however, due to the fact of very low admit rates, are “reach” odds for anyone, such as Northwestern. For some kids, Muhlenberg is a safety and for others, it may be a Match or a Reach.
My S applied to 11 BFA/BM programs. All audition based. He was academically accepted into 10 of the programs, artistically accepted to 7, and had 1 redirection.
He was originally planning to apply to 12…but he never got around to completing that last application.
Generally speaking most kids apply to 2-3 top tier schools, 4-5 second tier programs, and 4-5 lesser known programs and safeties. A lesser known program does not mean that it is inferior…just not as well known. Many of the lesser known programs are very strong. My S only applied to ONE top tier program…he was more interested in what the program offered … than just a name.
Just a note: you cannot compare boys to girls. If you have a daughter, don’t look at these boys statistics and think you’ll end up with something similar. For every boy auditioning, there are 3 to 4 girls. The odds are TOTALLY different.
That being said, as soozievt says, it’s ALSO different for each kid. Even if your kid is the best brunette 5’6" belter/dancer, if a school already has 3 of the same type, she probably won’t get into that school. Cast your net far and wide, but don’t apply to schools that your kid wouldn’t be THRILLED to attend.
My D applied to 16 schools, no safeties, no non-auditions. She was very top heavy. I would NOT recommend this approach, but she only wanted to apply to schools that she KNEW she wanted to attend (of course, she changed her mind about liking some of them after seeing the campus/experiencing the professors at auditions…but we didn’t know that during the application phase). My D was also a legit soprano who couldn’t belt, so we knew she was going to have a harder time. She got into 5 BFAs/BMs, got WL at 3, got a BA acceptance at one (with an offer to re-apply to the BFA in November), and 7 artistic rejections. Luckily, she got into her top choice and is happily ensconced there now. For a girl, I think it’s really important to find at least a dozen schools. I know that sounds crazy. But I know girls who applied to 20 or even 26, and got into just one. Get an unbiased assessment from a knowledgeable coach and go from there. (And when I say knowledgeable coach, I mean one of the big ones, not your high school drama teacher or your kid’s voice teacher. The initial assessments can be down via Skype and are very reasonable. I highly recommend MTCA, but I know there are others.)
I agree with @monkey13 a lot! Girls have a harder time AND get the opinion of a knowledgeable coach - and don’t trust the advice of someone who doesn’t have CURRENT experience in auditioning for college MT programs. My D has lots of community theatre adult friends who are products of Ball State & Indiana University (they’re state schools for us) - and were SHOCKED by how competitive it is just a mere 10 years after their graduation.
Also, please remember that this CC forum typically represents either the best of the best kids and/or kids & parents who have become super knowledgeable about the whole process. These people are not the reality of most people going through the audition process. People with multiple acceptances (some with a ton) are not the norm in real life. D knows kids throughout the country (from her summer camp experiences) who were shut out from MT programs and none who had several of the top schools to choose from.
It’s tough. Really tough. The school names that you see tossed around here are akin to the Ivy Leagues - and even harder to get into. I think that’s the biggest fact that I failed to grasp - that the most common schools you see tossed around CC are pretty much the same as Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
One of the other things that is hard to grasp in this process is that auditions are inherently subjective in nature. I think many of us wish for a checklist that says if our child has A,B and C, they should get in a certain school. But because auditions are very subjective, it is impossible to ever know for sure which schools are reaches, fits and safeties for your child as far as their MT skills are concerned. There is no quantitative measure to determine just how strong a singer, dancer or actor your child is relative to other applicants and the school’s current needs. Results of auditions are based on the opinion of the person sitting in the audition room. Unlike other majors, an MT major cannot assume they will get in any school because they achieved a certain GPA or test score. And even if they give an audition that 9 out of 10 auditors would consider top notch, it only matters what the person in the audition room thinks. Couple that with figuring out what type of actors the school needs that particular year, and the odds of acceptance can be staggering.
One thing my D learned as a figure skater (which is also very subjective in its assessments) is that you have to learn to perform for yourself. You need to learn to be your own judge and also learn to be happy with your own performance. If others don’t score it the way you would have, just know that is just their opinion. You can’t change that. So learn to be very honest with yourself. If you did well and still did not get in, be happy with how you performed and know that for now, that is not the place you are to be. If you could have done better, be honest with yourself about that too. Listen to the feedback you get during your auditions and use it to improve where needed.
Auditioning for college MT programs is a crazy, unpredictable process. Control what you can as far as preparation goes. And be confident and do your best in the audition room. But come to terms with the fact that, because auditioning is so subjective, there is no way to control or determine what your audition results will be. Be prepared for rejections. Assume you will get many. Then rejoice with any acceptance that comes your way. There are many, many great schools and ways to train for an MT career. Don’t despair if you don’t get in what you currently think is your dream school. There are many paths to success. And you may even find something even better suited to you at the end of the day.
Can I also say one more thing? (I’ve had A LOT of coffee this morning.)
The “best” school may not be the best school for YOUR kid … and in hindsight, I am thrilled (well, maybe not THRILLED - lol) that D got shut out of our great state schools. Especially in the case of one, she would’ve been a very small fish in a very large ocean. An ocean not only of very talented undergrad fish, but uber talented graduate school fish.
Many kids would be fine in that situation. I know mine wouldn’t. She needs more training. A better base. More seasoning. And I think that’s exactly what she’s going to get where she’s headed - I think she would’ve floundered* in a large, top notch program.
(*Did you CATCH the fish pun? =)) Yes, WAY too much coffee.)
Don’t get hung up on brand names. Find the best program for YOUR performer. And it may be that illustrious “name” school … but it also may be one that you have never heard of.
@theaterwork I would define a safety BA school as a non-audition school/program where your student, based upon his or her stats, will almost certainly be admitted. For every student, that list will be different. As @soozievt points out, there are some non-audition BA programs that will be a reach for all students (Northwestern/Yale). I also agree that it is difficult to apply male states to females given the raw numbers. My D is a rising senior and while her list has some cross-over with my S’s original list, hers has more than 1 safety and (so far) 5 more total schools. AND my D will be doing some private coaching; my S did not. The decision to do coaching was one of my “lessons learned” in the last round!
Too much coffee this morning here as well - it was morning when I started this. . .
And no matter what you do to prepare for this crazy process, you will second guess yourself at every step - and beyond. We started laying the ground work when S was in elementary school - including heavy dance training (he KNEW at 11 that this was the life for him). He is now a rising sophomore in an MT BFA he loves and was fortunate to be hired for a terrific summer stock gig during his freshman year, but he still has a few “what ifs” bumping around in the back of his mind.
Like @artskids S, he was willing to go through the process again if it came up a bust. He refused to apply to more than 8 schools and only did auditioned BFA MT (If he had his way it would have been only the 3 tippy top “suspects” - though that list is subjective and morphs a bit every so many years - and a “spare”). Out of the “magnificent 7” (he cancelled one March audition when it became clear that his current school had become the front-runner, even though it had been bottom of the list at the outset) he got three terrific acceptances and a waitlist (ultimately rejected). If we were to do it again, I might push for more “safeties”, but S was adamant about wanting to know if he was good enough to “play with the big boys”. Yes, the female odds present a whole different ballgame. (Had to “change-up” my metaphors. Was going to use fish in ponds/oceans, but it was already taken.)
S’s “what ifs” DURING the process include: “what if I had a different voice teacher?”; “what if I had chosen different material?”; “what if I’d had different coaching?”. The thing is, as a HS Junior morphing into a Senior, you can’t see “down the road”. The kids will be maturing, gaining skill and experience AS they are going through the process. It’s inevitable that they will “grow out” of whatever decisions they made and skills they had as a rising HS Senior. And now looking back as an MT that has completed his first year of college, S has grown even more, seeing some of the things he did during the audition process as “childish”. How could it be otherwise? As a wizened college sophomore he now says,“what if I’d chosen material closer to my type?”; “what if I’d “embraced” my lower voice as I am learning to do now?”.
Throughout the process - and even after - the target will always be moving farther away - or in a totally different direction. Just do the best with where you/your child is at at the time, with the available resources your family can manage. For those of you with stubborn kids who KNOW what they want in a school and refuse to settle for anything less, I do recommend trying to add one or two to the list that you as “wise parent” think might be a good fit for your kid. My S had his sights set on the “Top 3”. After going through the auditions at those schools, one (beloved since childhood) fell completely off the list, and two of the “I’ll humor my mom” schools rose to #1 and #2. Try NOT to second guess yourself - says the mom who has grayer hair and “more” excess poundage than she had a two years ago. . .
So true @mom4bwayboy! One of the tippy top of the “Top 3” for my son fell off after a horrible audition experience (he said on his way home if that had turned out to be his only acceptance he would wait a year and do it all over – YIKES). I was so glad that audition came after he had a few solid auditions under his belt and one offer. As it turned out, he moved 2 of his original Top 3 to the bottom of the list post-audition. You just never know. The process evolved right up to the very end!
Everyone who has said that the road is tougher for girls is giving true and depressing advice. But I think there is a silver lining. “Most” girls have already had a much tougher row to hoe (new metaphor) as MT/theater kids long before the college audition process. Yes, there are superstars- but most girls have had to pay their dues, spend time in the chorus, fight for recognition. Therefore, this is just one more round in that game (and they will do it again IN the BFA program, and when they graduate).
Wow thanks for this advice. Yes I have a daughter so the odds are not in our favor! Brunette, attractive Caucasian about 5’3" and petite features. She is a soprano belter along with so many others it seems. So…this alone I realize is not great for garnering a spot. I can’t worry about that though. She is a junior this fall & I know we have a lot of time to decide all this but I’m planning ahead. Her grades are good at this point by GPA standards. She will end up applying to maybe 1 or 2 reach schools and the rest will be lesser known schools programs. I think if she indeed stays on her MT path, we will enlist a coach to access her capabilities . She constantly has theater connected folks tell her she “has it” but again opinions are subjective.