<p>Well I am going to jump in on this :). I have read some posts from @redbluegoldgreen, only the one, by @scholwannabe from this thread. I have read several of Exie’s posts too. I have felt both contribute their respective viewpoints and are valuable in their own right. I understand and respect the issues that Exie’s have reflected on the search for a top tier school and perhaps that is not always the best thing for your kid. Exie has a daughter who is African American and did not get in Exeter last year but found a great place where she is happy and successful. She does face assumptions from others at times that she got in because she is an URM. This is unfair and in fact baseless but she faces it nonetheless.</p>
<p>From previous posts I have picked up on the fact that @redbluegoldgreen mourns that her kid didn’t get into Andover??? or got into Andover but wanted to get into Exeter??. I think @redbluegoldgreen has an Asian daughter?? Anyway, @red is concerned that there may be a cap on Asians, Asian-Americans at BS. This has been discussed and studied a bit on the college level. Some stuff has come out of Princeton, etc. Since CA has gone to race-blind admissions, Asian students have exceeded 40% at certain of the top state schools (UCLA??). Some Asian-Americans have sometimes felt that this has ill-prepared them to succeed in cross-cultural situations in the greater world, etc. Asians, have been referred to as the “new Jews” reflecting the legacy quotas and other critierias that had been set up to keep Jewish numbers down at the Ivy’s in the 1940’s and 1950’s.</p>
<p>I don’t have any answers to this very complex issue but I do think that these are all very real issues that people should be free to raise. This is an ancillary issue for me bkz I am not African American or Asian American but my conciousness has been raised through reading about these things and thinking about what they might mean to different people. I think it is good to be able to raise these issues. I think it is great that someone then rebuts it. But I do think that each side needs to be able to feel free to raise these issues.</p>
<p>“(unless, of course, you’re schizophrenic in which case I would request you pick one personality for purposes of this board and post under that name so we can keep up).”</p>
<p>Exie – Do you really want to take gratuitous swipes at persons suffering from a severe illness with that bit of ill-informed claptrap, mistakenly equating schizophrenia with multiple personality disorder? Come, come.</p>
<p>UC San Diego 50%+ Asian
UCLA 34%
UC Berkeley (Cal) 40%</p>
<p>I am not qualified to make a comment on what this means for higher education in general, but those are the current stats for 3 of the UC schools (data from College Board). Some of the other UCs have a broader mix of students.</p>
<p>I have no idea–I’m not Asian, don’t live in CA, etc, but the first question that pops into my head is, what is the Asian population in CA, particularly near those schools? I would think that could and would effect the stats and be reflected in UC enrollments. </p>
<p>OTOH, I live in an area where you might expect to see very diverse populations in all the schools (public, charter, and private), but that often is not the case, and individual schools tend to be heavily represented by one or two specific ethnic groups/races–different groups for different schools. </p>
<p>This reminds me–in a roundabout way–of an incident when I was looking at elementary schools for my oldest. Out for coffee with two friends, Friend A said, I love PS X, it’s so diverse. Later, Friend B said to me privately, I don’t know what she’s talking about, I didn’t think it was diverse at all. ?! They had attended the same tour, observed the same classes, etc. Because each of these friends was from a different race and socioeconomic group, they defined “diverse” very differently. </p>
<p>I think the Bakke case backfired on future “Bakkes” by allowing him to successfully claim that he was discriminated against when someone with a lower score was selected over his higher score. The case pretty much dictated that the California regents go color-blind.</p>
<p>If the Asian population applying to college is self-selecting - and if the traditions held overseas (high scores are the primary factor in determining who gets into the most prestigious schools) then that would naturally skew the results.</p>
<p>Adcoms quietly conceded that focus on test scores by certain populations tends to skew the data is not, necessarily an indicator of ability to perform or innovate once on campus. And many universities across the country (as well as Boarding Schools) developed complex algorithms to allow them to rely less on scores and more on other qualitative aspects of an application.</p>
<p>So I suspect, California is an anomaly because Bakke made it much harder for those universities to balance the classes in terms of diversity.</p>
<p>Thanks flowers for your restatement of the issues I was trying to convey and your assertion that all should feel free to discuss their concerns.</p>
<p>Exie, I have to say I’m getting tired of your bashing me all the time. And others calling me or anyone else Schizophrenic or having multiple personality disorder is just plain stupid and mean.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you have a problem with my having two monikers. At work, I signed up as redblue, at home my family all have access to the PC and we signed up as scholwannabe held over from a time we posted on the topic of Scholastic awards, not boarding schools. I’m sorry you have so much trouble with it. I don’t. And I don’t see any need to change.</p>
<p>And I will keep talking about how I worry schools have quotas for certain racial groups, if that’s what I’m concerned about. It’s unfortunate for you Exie, because sometimes you actually give sage advice, you’re mean put downs are just so mean, that it detracts from your credibility.</p>
<p>First, just want to say that the information I’ve picked up is from “popular” journals but issues on balancing classes comes from all sides. As I mentioned earlier I read somewhere that some Asian-Americans have begun to question how the lack of diversity affects their experience — extrapolating that they are not learning/growing when too many of the class are “like” them (gross over-generalization here). Again, sorry no source but I followed a link sometime back to some articles about U. of Toronto which apparently has a very large Asian contingent bkz they use only standardized tests for admission and it has been very hard to fill positions such as the Editor of the School Newspaper, etc. Obviously admissions is always a work in progress and schools particularly those in the US are always “tinkering” with the process. I’ve read that English schools don’t care too much about EC’s just grades so as the demographics of England change, I wonder what impact this will have on the make-up of English Universities.</p>
<p>I do think that its great to keep questioning what this tinkering is about bkz what I’ve read about the reason for instituting legacy policies at the Ivies (to reduce the number of Jewish students) is sobering. If it isn’t questioned and argued, defended and knocked down “it ain’t American” IMHO.</p>
<p>Does anyone think (or know if) heavy reliance on test scores yielding larger #s of specific ethnic groups contributes towards the number of well respected colleges/universities going SAT optional? </p>
<p>And is there a word other than “quota” that is currently being used? Quota has such negative connotations, but it seems there has to be attention paid by admissions (both in BSs and colleges) if they are committed to diversity. Maybe I’m too naive, just trying to sort out and understand what I need to for my kids. :(</p>
<p>@Flowers - on your last post - I agree. I have friends saying the same time - and also bristling at the stereotype that “labels” Asians as a homogeneous group. </p>
<p>@123Mama - absolutely - that and the fact that families with means have been utilizing coaches and test prep courses putting families without access (or knowledge) at a disadvantage. Schools have been “experimenting” and found that some students scoring lower on tests sometimes do as well, or outperform one that aces it. An Adcom at a beloved HADES (not mine) suggested that they’re only giving the scores a cursory glance because students “prepped from birth” are skewing the averages.</p>
<p>Now many schools and universities are taking a more holistic approach. Education is about so much more than a grade and a test score. (Entrance scores still count though - just not as much. Which I why I emphasize to parents to focus on what other aspects define the child - those activities, passions, etc. that define that specific student are what the Adcoms will use in balancing the class.) I once forwarded a poem (with my interview notes) written by a very bright young lady (Asian) on her hatred of Chemistry, and another on comparing her participation as a drum majorette to herding bovine. She was admitted. </p>
<p>Also - there are no quotas (not as defined by a fixed number, anyhow). Schools don’t need more perfect score clones - they need more passionate students that represent a wide variety of opinions, talents, and interests so that the diversity will also be reflected in campus activities. Tell your children to be “themselves” and be passionate about something in depth, then look for those colleges that embrace students like them. That’s where they will be the happiest.</p>
<p>Unless you have written permission from CollegeConfidential.com, you should choose one moniker and stick to it. It would help to keep identities straight. It does awaken the impression you’re ■■■■■■■■, when you aren’t.</p>
<p>Clearly she understands the technology well enough to log out and log on under one name. That’s been pointed out for over a year and ignored. She just chooses not to do it. </p>
<p>Posting under one name instead of three is a good start to acting like a responsible grown-up.</p>
<p>As for first amendment rights - RBG2 was hitting parents and children below the belt pretty hard last year. That’s what this has been about.</p>