How much do private college counselors charge?

Parents Forum
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<p>Soozie, I think you articulated very well the reasons why parents may opt for a private counselor and I think your families are lucky to have you.</p>

<p>My beef is with the subset of counselors whose names imply or suggest that they can get the kid catapulted into a college that the kid couldn’t be admitted by his or herself, and all of the marketing materials support this illusion.</p>

<p>Let’s be frank- nobody is naming their college counseling service “Adelphi-Edge” or “Hofstra-bound” or “Destination CW Post” even though there may well be kids out there who need assistance getting their ducks in a row for the Adelphi colleges of the world. I have no doubt that there are honest and straightforward counselors out there… but the vast majority that I hear about at the grocery store and the water cooler at work are exploiting some vulnerable people out there.</p>

<p>The superstar kid, left to his own devices, might end up at UVA instead of JHU. Or BC instead of Georgetown. Or Brandeis instead of Swarthmore. At the end of the day, does the minor (if in fact, the counselor is not editing essays or actively molding the kid) boost that might come from professional tweaking justify the very high prices that parents are paying for these services? And do the differences in educational experience at these places really make that much of a difference at the end of the day? I believe that fit is important… but will BC be a horrid fit for a kid who would have been happy at Georgetown without the help of the counselor who can ease the way into the somewhat more competitive admissions pile?</p>

<p>So I am skeptical. Parents who feel burned by the process do so after paying 12-15K or so (the full package for many of these companies) only to learn at the end of the day that Junior is heading off to SUNY Binghamton (a fine school by the way- with some terrific programs) where, barring a true meltdown in the process, most HS guidance counselors in NY State could have advised on how to get accepted to Binghamton (and if the kid is below the bar for B all the private counseling in the world isn’t getting him in.)</p>

<p>So if the counselors really purport to be about helping the kid navigate the process… and not imply, actively or otherwise, that every kid whose parents have an open checkbook is ending up at Harvard (Ivy-Edge anyone) they need to clean up their act.</p>

<p>Do you see testimonials in the marketing materials from parents who are grateful that they paid 15K to get the kid into College of New Rochelle? PULEEZE.</p>

<p>And I don’t think that any cleaning service is going to show up at my house and imply that it will look like Versailles when they are done. Just my own house… with fewer dust bunnies.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read the entire thread. I didn’t use a private counselor. That said…</p>

<p>There are situations in which it makes sense. Light years past this process, I now think one involves the essay. No counselor should write it. But, yes, an objective person should read it and say “This stinks” if it really does. Parents aren’t in a position to be objective, nor do they know what a college is “looking for.” Moreover, I hope I’m not alone when I say that my offspring really wouldn’t be inclined to believe me if I said a piece of writing said offspring had worked hard on was awful. </p>

<p>I think an objective essay review can be especially important for the kid who aspires to a HYPS type college and goes to a high school where few people do so and the counselors really don’t know a heck of a lot about the process. </p>

<p>One dad who did this felt the money was really worthwhile. They hired a high school English teacher from one of the best independent schools in NYC. (The D involved went to a large suburban high school.) The dad felt that his D learned more about writing from this teacher than she had during her entire high school career. The teacher involved didn’t write a word. Took the first essay and tore it into shreds–this is trite; this does nothing more than rehash the extracurricular awards the college can read on a different part of your application. If the teacher hadn’t been hired, the essay would have been submitted. </p>

<p>I think a lot of what’s out there is just plain fraud. But I really don’t see a difference between paying for your kid to take a SAT prep course–which I never did either–and paying to have someone objective review your kid’s essays. Writing them is another story all together. But telling a kid that the answer to the “person you most admire” essay at UVa should not be Thomas Jefferson—believe it or not, a lot of folks actually write that, thinking it will help!–might be worth it for some.</p>

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<p>I’m fairly certain that the role this counselor played overstepped the bounds soozievt would set, although it wasn’t so terribly sinister. What she did, really, was to talk with the student, and to take account of his unique background (he grew up in unusual circumstances), to help him develop a coherent “story line” for his interests and activities, so that the different pieces reinforced one another and took advantage of his background, and of course made him look more focused than he really was. This actually extended into academics, too; his senior history project dovetailed with his summer activities. But the counselor didn’t make anything up; she unquestionably started with the actual kid and his actual interests and skills. And the kid was a willing participant.</p>

<p>As for what she was hired to do . . . the kid was a qualified but hardly overwhelming candidate for two hyper-selective colleges, one the alma mater of his father and paternal grandfather (undergraduate and PhD) as well as of myriad uncles and cousins on his father’s side, and the other the alma mater of his mother, maternal grandfather, and his father (in professional school). The family felt close to both colleges, and everyone was terribly hurt by his rejections there. Certainly by the end of 11th grade they knew it was an uphill battle – his (excellent) school counselor was discouraging him from applying to the first college, but not to the second. But it wasn’t silk-purse/sow’s-ear crazy at all, given his background, grades, and scores. Had he been accepted at either college, everyone would have considered whatever they paid well-spent.</p>

<p>Of course, I was a little scandalized, and a little jealous, too. Hearing about all his plans certainly made me aware of how my own son lacked any coherent story line, or if he had one it was a lot more “Waiting for Godot” than “Henry V”. I was a little gratified when the effort didn’t succeed, but a little shocked and upset, too, at how much it didn’t succeed, when he was rejected not just by the unattainable reaches but by much more attainable reaches and matches, too. I suspect that everyone caught a whiff of too much counseling in there. I am very glad that he got off the waitlist at a college he could feel enthusiastic about, however far down his original list it was.</p>

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<p>Blossom, there are all sorts of college counselors (and a WIDE range of fees between them). As well, there are all sorts of reasons that one may hire one. I do not believe that one should hire a college counselor with the hopes of getting Johnny or Susie into a school that they could not otherwise get into. If that is the mindset, it is misguided. I also don’t think that is what a college counseling service should push. I realize you are meeting people where this happens to be the case, however. </p>

<p>I see my role as helping someone in ways they may not have been able to quite know how to do on their own and to do it well but not to get them into a place that they would not have qualified. I don’t think my job is to get them admitted. I see it as a success story if the student is admitted to appropriate colleges that fit him/her that she/he would be interested in attending. I can’t promise a first choice or anything like that. </p>

<p>For that matter, many believe that college counselors are for those seeking elite colleges. To the contrary, I have many students with poor academic profiles who are not anywhere remotely near Ivy level. These kids ALSO need help and advice with college selection and admissions! I have had students who have scored lower than 1000 on the SAT CR/M! Kids with a 2.8 GPA and no Honors/AP classes! I also have helped students applying to very specialized degree programs that would take their parents and themselves a great deal of research to understand the process involved, the selectivity, the programs and the required preparation and most school GCs have no clue either about that process. If you read testimonials of mine, you would not see it full of top tier schools that the student enrolled at like you were describing. If anything, those who need more assistance are those not applying to elite schools or who don’t have the know how of how to go about college selection and admissions. </p>

<p>However, I DO agree with Jonri in terms of helping students, such as with essays. I believe many parents read over essays and many teachers do too. That is no different than a college counselor doing so and making suggestions of how to revise it. To be frank, just like jonri describes, I have seen many first drafts that students would have submitted had they not been working with me and it just would not be a good thing to send. Many have no clue how to go about it, for example. Also, like jonri wrote, I had a mom tell me one time that at the end of the college counseling process, one benefit she felt her D reaped beyond the college stuff was that she was helped to become a better writer. These students are getting one to one help in the writing process and revision process that many teachers or guidance counselors don’t have to devote on such an individualized basis. I agree that this kind of guidance is no different than SAT tutoring. Neither are “cheating.” We expect children to be GUIDED. After all, we even have guidance counselors at school with the job description to help with college admissions. And look at all the parents on CC who are very active? Why so? Because they want to learn what they can about this whole college admissions process and help guide their children accordingly. Many can do this themselves. Many cannot for assorted reasons and choose to get someone with expertise to help their child do what many of you are doing with your children already.</p>

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<p>So, this is what I am saying that I don’t agree with and hope that parents are not hiring college counselors to get their child into college. If their measure of whether the counselor was worth it is which schools the kid got into, that’s too bad. I would hope that any parents I worked with would think that the help was worth it due to all the hours upon hours of assistance they got every step of the way, making it much less overwhelming for them. </p>

<p>Also, sometimes when a kid barely gets into any schools, it COULD be a matter of the family choosing NOT to take the advice to have a more well balanced list in terms of odds. I can only ADVISE and not make any student or parent do as suggested. I can think of a very accomplished student I have now who I believe has a college list that is not well balanced and is way too chancy (the admit rate to every school is extremely low) for anyone (though she is qualified). I can articulate and document and advise all I want but in the end, the family decides. So, if you get a case where a student (maybe the JHS friend could have been such a case? hard to tell…I don’t know enough about it) where the college list was either not appropriate or not well balanced, the outcome may not be the fault of the college counselor but rather not having the RIGHT list (you can polish essays all you want but if the college list is either inappropriate or not well balanced, it won’t matter).</p>

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<p>Soozievt- “independent college counselors do not contact adcoms to discuss students”- actually, I just read an ad in a Southern CT (Fairfield County) newspaper where the independent educational counseling service promised to do just that as part of their fee! In your experience, how would such a call, from a paid independent counselor, be received by the college admissions office?</p>

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<p>Independent college counselors should not be intervening with college admissions officials about their students. This is wrong, in my view. </p>

<p>Further, admissions officers do not really like students having private college counselors and see them as a “necessary evil.” If a private counselor identified a student he/she was working with to an adcom, they would also risk this working AGAINST the student (i.e., adcom could conclude, even if unfairly…“kid is rich and has a private counselor and this counselor wrote the essays or embellished the ECs, etc. etc.” Adcoms may enjoy meeting independent college counselors (not to discuss specific students!!) because they want the counselor to match kids to their schools and the counselors are a source of sending students to them. </p>

<p>I do not believe an independent counselor should ever contact an adcom about a student. I certainly never have done so. The counselor is helping with the matchmaking of student to colleges that are appropriate and also helping the student most effectively market who they are to the colleges. </p>

<p>There are things that an independent counselor can and should do and there are many things that one can’t or should not do (even if it is possible to do them).</p>

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<p>Yes, I was a little surprised by this ad. It was basically phrased as “I am the former college director at XYZ (not very prestigious) private school, and will be happy to phone my former connections for you for a fee.” I believe that there are good consultants out there, who provide an important service in certain situations, but guys like this give the field a bad name, IMHO.</p>

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<p>Again, I think it is a big no no for a private independent counselor to intervene about admissions for particular students directly with adcoms. </p>

<p>However, this does touch on the whole “connections” stuff. When I read The Gatekeepers, one of the things in it that popped out at me was the wheeling and dealing with some private HS guidance counselors and adcoms. That was not really the case at my kids’ public school. My kids fared just fine anyway but it was an eye opener to say the least when I read that book and what goes on behind the scenes between some counselors and adcoms. Of course, that is different with a SCHOOL based counselor and not a “no no” by any means! It IS a no no for an independent counselor though.</p>

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<p>We’ve done the StatsEval with College Karma twice. First time with S1 we had Dave Berry ($89 at the time); the second we had another counselor and Sally chimed in as well ($150). I wasn’t looking for research, organization or essay review. I just wanted someone whose has seen a lot of students to give us a reality check on the lists, given that both kids are a little lopsided on scores vs. GPA and they both had/have their sights set relatively high. We have not paid for any test prep other than Blue Books. (For the record, both kids attended large, diverse public high schools – about 300 kids per GC. S2’s GC did not even ask where he was applying his list when he had his meeting with her in the spring. S1’s GC was delighted that he had bypassed many of the “usual suspects” in favor of places that really matched his interests.)</p>

<p>I did find some of the books by the mega-priced counselors to be useful in considering ways to structure a personal resume and to help S1 pull his many activities together in a way that really spoke to who he is and what he wants. Got the books at the library, BTW. Between some research on my own, the collective wisdom of CC, and a couple of friends who have known my kids since they were wee guys, I feel prepared to offer guidance (and am doing so for a niece and a friend of S2’s this year also).</p>

<p>As far as admissions administrivia, I am willing to help keep things organized, will make the run to Office Depot for supplies, and will take S2 (as I did his his older brother) to the P.O. to learn how to mail application materials. I will offer feedback on essays if asked, but as for rewrites – not my department. I am happy to sit with S and brainstorm ideas.</p>

<p>WRT results: S1 got into exactly the four schools he wanted and which were clearly the best fit. Did not get in/was waitlisted at the other three. To me, this really spoke to the strength of the application and essays, because the goodies that happened senior year did not seem to make a bit of difference in his results. That said, had he applied to just those four schools, a LOT of people would have thought we were nuts.</p>

<p>S2 has not climbed on the bandwagon yet and gotten enthusiastic. He tends to mull things in his head and then when he writes, it’s fully formed and gorgeous. Until then, I will be pulling out my hair!</p>

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<p>I’m glad an actual counselor has weighed in.</p>

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<p>We initially used a big name counselor who was a former adcom and certainly talks ivies in marketing material. But she did make very clear, to parents and children, what level of college was going to happen for the student. If fact, I’d have to say she was conservative, she told a friend’s student she didn’t think he’d get into an ivy where he was a legacy, and he was admitted.</p>

<p>If any counselor is suggesting they have an in at any admissions office or they will get a kid with sub par stats into any school, run! I don’t think the ones that stay in business do this. In my neighborhood, it’s totally a word of mouth reference that gets counselors their clients. The most popular doesn’t even have a web site.</p>

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So this private school counselor contacts schools on behalf of students. Soozie doesn’t (and doesn’t think private counselors should). Do most private counselors contact schools? What do the national associations for these counselors say (anything at all?) about this issue?</p>

<p>Public school students whose overworked GCs don’t contact schools to get kids off waitlists are at a big disadvantage. The squeaky (adult) wheel must get the grease. A 17/18 year-old student is clearly no match for an adult who gets every kid off the waitlist, are they?</p>

<p>As I wrote before, kids today (the majority, according to surveys, I believe) believe cheating is okay. So it stands to reason that there must be a great deal of cheating going on with college applications of one kind or another. </p>

<p>I just looked for college application essay services, and there are definitely services out there that will write the essay for the student. Definitely wrong. Where’s the line between editing and (inappropriate) hyper-editing? </p>

<p>I think colleges must know this sort of thing is going on. They must not care. </p>

<p>There is special consideration for URMs/athletes/etc…unfortunately no AA for students who do their applications and essays by themselves or go to public schools where their essays aren’t hyperedited and GCs don’t extensively lobby schools for students. </p>

<p>P.S. I would be in favor of students being required to write essays with NO HELP whatsoever. That’s why I think the essay sample required on the SAT now could be so helpful (too bad so few colleges even consider the W score or essay!).</p>

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<p>Just as I would never consider sending my kids to a boarding school because we want to have a maximum opportunity to influence the way they develop their core value system and build further emotional bond with them, I would not hire a college counselor because I don’t want somebody else to hold my children’s hands in the last critical rite of passage of their development before they fly out of my nest. </p>

<p>S1’s college application process was really a bonding experience for all of us and it firmly cemented his view of his parents as a valuable source of wise counsel. This experience and pattern spilled over this summer when he started his internship at Wall Street. Every evening, the three of us would go over what happened to him at work that day, and “strategize” on how best to move forward, like how to work with HR gate keepers, how to “encourage” the executives to take him under their wing, how to interpret various office politics signals, how to read a map of collective “organizational psychology”, how to “recruit” advocates, supports, and advocates, how to respond to compliments that will further motivate the compliment giver to spread the good words, etc. I have always played a role of a mentor to young folks who worked for me, and this mentoring experience of my own son is the best ever! I got to share 20 years worth of insight into office politics with him… I believe the fact that he took it for granted that he would recruit his parents as “career” advisors has something to do with the fact that all throughout fall the year before we had the same type of engagement day in day out.</p>

<p>S2 is bit more stubborn kid and doing the same thing with him next fall may have some bumpy rides here and there, but I am looking forward to it: it would be the last intense and productive engagement before leaves home, and I wouldn’t want to miss it for anything. I guess in a way I am selfish. I don’t want to share this experience with a stranger.</p>

<p>I am fully aware that for some other families and kids, the paid counselor may be the right choice, especially for kids dealing with more complex considerations. In our case, we feel that we were no worse (for S1), and perhaps better than most (for S2) counselors we can hire. After all, S1 was a pretty straightforward case, and S2 is an ROTC hopeful, and I doubt there is a whole crew of college counselors specializing in getting the ROTC scholarship and leveraging it as part of the college admission strategy. </p>

<p>I wish all the luck for those parents who are considering the option of hired counselors, and hope they find the right one. Everyone to his own, and whatever works for their kids is the best choice. In terms of the money, well, we all want to do our best for the kids, so if spending $40K is deemed worth it for parents who can afford it, who am I to question that!</p>

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<p>CTTC…I want to make it clear that private INDEPENDENT counselors should not contact adcoms about specific students. This is different, in my opinion, than a school counselor having contact with adcoms. Also, in another post of mine, I said it was an eye opener the amount of personal contact that some private prep school counselors have with adcoms about students (and have ongoing relationships with them) compared to anything my kids experienced. However, I don’t consider that “cheating”. I suppose it is a benefit of some of these prep schools and their relationship with the colleges. Nobody said college admissions was all “fair.” </p>

<p>Hyeonjlee…I agree as a parent, I prefer to guide my own kids and many parents do it and do it well in fact. I believe most CC parents fall under this category because…look, they are on CC after all! But for the reasons I stated in an earlier post, I can see why having outside guidance is very beneficial to some families. And by the way, while there are counselors who charge $40,000, as you mention, please don’t lump all counselors in this category. I don’t earn even one tenth of that for a client. Further, you know how many hours you devoted to helping your child? I do that for every kid as if my own and if I added up the hours spent per child/parent case, I likely earn about $7/hour (they are not paying by the hour).</p>

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<p>Soozie, thanks for your input from the other side of the counseling process. Wondering why you think some things are OK for school counselors who specialize in college counseling but not OK for private counselors. It seems to me both are paid to do the same thing, albeit one directly and the other indirectly, and both may have similar contacts/relationships, and both are working with the same raw material and goals. So, why should they be held to different standards?</p>

<p>For the record, we have no college counselors at our public school where each counselor has 300+ students, can’t remember the last time a kid went to a fancy school and we have not hired a private counselor. Other than me, my kid is swimming upstream against a strong current.</p>

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<p>ihs76…if you makes you feel any better, my kids attended a rural public school that is unknown, where 66% are college bound and very few go to highly selective colleges. My kids got into highly selective colleges (one attended an Ivy and one went to a top BFA program in her field) even so. Please know that in the end, it is the kid who gets in and not what high school they are coming from. Yes, kids from these known high schools have some advantages and the adcoms know their GCs and all that jazz. But a kid from a school like ours or yours can also make out fine. </p>

<p>You asked why it is OK for a school counselor to have contact with the adcoms on behalf of students but not a private independent counselor…</p>

<p>The school counselor is the appropriate contact person. That person sees the student in context of his/her classmates and in relation to peers who have applied to the same colleges in a way that an independent counselor cannot do. The school counselor has a sense of how teachers, administrators and other students regard the student. The school counselor either can support (or not) a student’s candidacy at a particular college (as a private counselor, I could support any kids’ candidacy!). The school counselor is knowledgeable about their school’s relationship with particular colleges and with the history of students who have been admitted or denied in the past. A school counselor is REQUIRED to write a report on the student and can make an impact on the content and quality of the recommendations where a private counselor does not. The school counselor has a different position in this admissions process, including required reports to colleges, that the private counselor does not. Colleges may even contact a school counselor to ask about a student. The school counselor already has WRITTEN contact with the colleges on the application materials and so it is not far fetched or out of line that such folks may also have oral contact with the adcoms.</p>

<p>I also explained that while an independent counselor should not intervene with college officials to promote a student’s candidacy, it would be DETRIMENTAL TO DO SO, as adcoms do not look favorably upon students who have private counselors. It could HURT their candidacy, whereas contact by a school GC doesn’t hurt by virtue of the contact itself (though could hurt if the GC doesn’t have positive things to say about the student!).</p>

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<p>I just want to be clear that we did not do the Stats Check so that our son would get into college A or even improve his chances at a specific college. </p>

<p>Our primary goal was to be confident that he would not be excluded from consideration due to having overlooking classes and/or standardized testing requirements or preferences. </p>

<p>Our secondary goal was to feel confident that every school our kid is applying to is a match in terms of his interests, location and so on and having a professional look over that list and making informed comments helped my S to shape his final list with confidence.</p>

<p>Now the only question is, will it be a match as far as the admissions office is concerned? That is, and always has been, out of our control. Perhaps some people have the kind of connections and/or money where they do not lose all control once the application is sent in but we are not in that group of people. </p>

<p>We hired someone so that my S could feel that he did all he could to put his best foot forward, that we could feel confident in our counsel we have given and we’re very pleased with the result. Where he gets in has nothing to do with it, which is why I felt I could share my honest opinion without waiting to see where he gets in.</p>

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<p>PMK, I am totally on the same page with you. We just wanted a reality check. The rest of it is up to S2.</p>

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<p>pugmadkate…I think you made a wise decision to have garnered the opinion of a third party with expertise in college admissions. Like with many things in life, it can help to have some guidance from those whose job it is to know a lot about that area. One can figure lots out on their own and even guide their own kid but it can be beneficial to be guided by someone in addition to that which you do on your own. Many parents who I work with are ALSO helping their child. The independent counselor need not take the place of the parents’ role. Many parents themselves feel less overwhelmed by having someone guide them and answer questions they have and so forth.</p>

<p>You know how parents are on CC asking many questions? The same goes for using an independent counselor except the answers are more individualized to their situation on an ongoing basis than a message board can do. And of course the person answering the questions is not a lay person either.</p>

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<p>I have never heard of such a fee… unless we’re talking tuition! :slight_smile: And it would be my opinion and experience that if you’re paying that kind of money for a private tutor while also sending your kids to private school, you’re getting ripped off by the school. I absolutely loved our counselor for S who knew when he needed a shoulder to pout on and when he needed to have more confidence in his own achievements. She was also wonderful to me when I would read on CC how his list didn’t include any safeties or his stats made what she had said was a safety, a reach. She would reassure me that he was going to have choices. And she was absolutely right. I do not think she ever spoke to a school on his behalf directly, but I think she knew better than I would or those on CC would about how certain resumes faired at certain colleges.</p>

<p>I thought our counselors did an outstanding job of helping our students put together a comprehensive list. I did not even come to CC until S was waiting for ED decisions. However, with D1 who went to a really large public, had I not been helpful in finding schools and keeping the process organized, her only choice would have been huge instate and oos publics. Not that there is anything wrong with those schools, but for how much the district brags about how smart their students are, they don’t send too many to the top schools. </p>

<p>I think the most offensive thing about this entire thread is the thought that anyone would think it was fair game to have someone else write their kids’ essays. Isn’t there a place on the common application that specifically asks if someone else helped you with your applications? I guess if you can’t let your kid speak for themselves in college essays, why would promoting them lying on their application be any different?</p>