<p>How much do you make during the residency program? Do you get half of a doctors salary or like enough for expenses and food?</p>
<p>I heard it's enough to cover your food and expenses so something like 40k a year. Pretty dismal.</p>
<p>40K sounds good---back in the dark ages (late 70's to early 80's) my husband made 14K. That's why after the intern year he moonlighted a weekend a month.</p>
<p>
[quote]
40K sounds good---back in the dark ages (late 70's to early 80's) my husband made 14K. That's why after the intern year he moonlighted a weekend a month.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>14k back in the late 70's and early 80's was a lot of money back then. </p>
<p>For example, 14k in 1978 dollars is actually equal to about $42.6k in today's dollars.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.westegg.com/inflation/%5B/url%5D">http://www.westegg.com/inflation/</a></p>
<p>Actually Sakky I misspoke (or typed). I meant that 40k sounds good meaning "about right". But even if it is or was adequate reimbursement---still for a family of 3, 4 and 5 (we were adding kids those years) it necessitated moonlighting to make ends meet.</p>
<p>In May 2003 Base PGY-1 salary ranged from $38K to $47K at UCSF, Hopkins, MGH, Brigham, Columbia and NYU. At UCSF in 2003 PGY-1 to PGY-7 salaries ranged from $38K to $51K.
See UCSF's Report of the Task force on resident compensation.
<a href="http://www.medschool.ucsf.edu/gme/residents/pdf/ResidentCompensation.pdf#xml=http://www.search.medschool.ucsf.edu/texis/webinator/search/pdfhi.txt?query=resident+salary&pr=default&prox=paragraph&rorder=500&rprox=500&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=750&rlead=500&sufs=0&order=r&mode=&cq=&id=433864bc1%5B/url%5D">http://www.medschool.ucsf.edu/gme/residents/pdf/ResidentCompensation.pdf#xml=http://www.search.medschool.ucsf.edu/texis/webinator/search/pdfhi.txt?query=resident+salary&pr=default&prox=paragraph&rorder=500&rprox=500&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=750&rlead=500&sufs=0&order=r&mode=&cq=&id=433864bc1</a></p>
<p>Current salaries at Cedars Sinai are:
[quote]
Effective as of July 1, 2006, physicians-in-training will receive annual stipends as follows:</p>
<pre><code>* PGY-1 - $42,849
* PGY-2 - $44,641
* PGY-3 - $46,616
* PGY-4 - $49,890
* PGY-5 - $53,149
* PGY-6 - $55,870
* PGY-7 - $57,540
[/quote]
</code></pre>
<p><a href="http://www.csmc.edu/3542.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.csmc.edu/3542.html</a></p>
<p>Note that interest on some student loans cannot be deferred during residency .</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually Sakky I misspoke (or typed). I meant that 40k sounds good meaning "about right". But even if it is or was adequate reimbursement---still for a family of 3, 4 and 5 (we were adding kids those years) it necessitated moonlighting to make ends meet
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, look, I'm not trying to say that the life of a resident doctor is easy, as it clearly is not. But I do think I have to add that there are a LOT of people with kids who can only dream of having a job making 40k. 40k is obviously not a great salary (especially if you've undergone the grueling training of a doctor and taken on med-school debt), but it's still significantly higher than the national average for all jobs.</p>
<p>Not on a per hour basis when you're working 80 hour weeks.</p>
<p>60-80 hours per week, 2-3 weeks off per year and 44 grand avg. 897 bucks per week is what it is, without taxes being taken out. For a 60 hour week that is 15 bucks per hour with no taxes being taken out. Not bad, but when you have people to support and giant debt to pay off your live a not so good life.</p>
<p>ive actually heard that the pay is variable on your residency year (goes up every year) and the specialty you are in. For example a neurosurgeon resident prolly makes more than a FP resident.</p>
<p>Yes, but it's quite low regardless.</p>
<p>
If you expect to work only 60 hours a week during residency, you will likely be dissappointed.</p>
<p>Since most resident work requires long shifts, a 60 hour work week translates to a 40 hour work week plus 20 hours overtime at 1.5 or 2.x pay, reducing "hourly" pay to less than $12. "Hourly" rates for an 80 hour work week, with overtime factored in, come to less than $10.</p>
<p>Ask any resident or resident's spouse if compensation is marginal, adequate or generous. The simple fact is: no one would work as hard as resident for as little money, but for the promise making much more money afterwards.</p>
<p>Yeah but don't just quote "facts" from articles. Older residents work less hours. 80 hours is the maximum allowed by law. Most people do that their first year. After that workload starts to go down. 60 hours is a good avg. over the whole residency. And no the pay isn't enough but thats why being a doctor isn't easy, nor is it for everyone.</p>
<p>If the average is 60 hours a week, then first year residents work 80; seconds work 60; thirds work 40. (Or maybe two years of fifty, or something.) This strikes me as... optimistic.</p>
<p>Here is the wording of the ACGME rule:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education's new resident duty hours standard takes effect on July 1, 2003. The common minimum standards on resident duty hours apply to ACGME-accredited residency programs in all 118 ACGME-accredited specialties and subspecialties. An ACGME working group developed the standards, which reflect its consensus on the benefit of duty hour limits for resident education and related patient care. Major provisions of the new standards include:</p>
<pre><code>* An 80-hour weekly limit, averaged over four weeks. Individual Residency Review Committees for various specialties may set more restrictive standards. In some specialties, educationally valuable activities may occur beyond the 80-hour limit, so starting July 1, 2004, programs may request up to a 10% increase in weekly maximum hours, providing the program provides a sound educational rationale and the higher limit is approved by the sponsoring institution and the appropriate RRC.
* Moonlighting done in the sponsoring institution counts toward the weekly limit. In addition, program directors must ensure that external and internal moonlighting does not interfere with the resident's achievement of the program's educational goals and objectives.
* Adequate rest between duty periods.
* A 24-hour limit on continuous duty time, with an additional period up to six hours permitted for continuity of care and educational activities.
* One day in seven free from all patient care and educational obligations, averaged over four weeks.
* In-house call no more than once every three nights, averaged over four weeks.
[/quote]
http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/newsRoom/newsRm_dutyHours.asp
</code></pre>
<p>In practice, most programs test the ACGME rules on a regular basis. Here is quote from one of the ACGME chat boards:
[quote]
My program verbally discourages senior residents (4th and 5th year) from taking days off, we are told to ensure that the junior residents get their days off and if possible the senior residents will be allowed to take days off. The entire schedule is set up so that it is very difficult for a senior resident to take days off and still remain responsible for the smooth running of the team. Also the senior residents are required to find another senior resident to provide coverage on their day off (if they are so lucky as to be able to get one).
What are the recommendations of the RRC to discourage this activity by the program directors? It seems that the only way to stop this practice is a law similar to the one in NY where there are financial penalties instituted for breaking what is in NY a law, but for all other states only guidelines.
I would appreciate any similar experiences/advise being posted on the site, including by Ms. Miller and any other RRC/ACGME personnel who consider this to be a serious issue.
[/quote]
<a href="http://webboard.acgme.org/%7ErrcCouncil/guests%5B/url%5D">http://webboard.acgme.org/~rrcCouncil/guests</a></p>
<p>Finally, see an account at hourswatch.org of a resident's experience as a whistleblower reporting "duty hour" violations at Hopkins, early in the duty hour limit era.
<a href="http://www.hourswatch.org/images/04%20M-J%20AMSA.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.hourswatch.org/images/04%20M-J%20AMSA.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.hourswatch.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.hourswatch.org</a></p>
<p>(I apologize for quoting actual accounts of real residents and citing verifiable facts.)</p>
<p>How about Yale, because I know that from working there. During their later years their hours go down, I know this as a fact. EVERYONES hours in every specialty. But this is a program that had "issues" a few years ago with working too many hours, kind of like some other institutions are trying now, see your Hopkins. The way it is now, its going to change, they are cracking down heavily, as you have shown. Hours go down to about 50-60 your later years. This is what I know from the many residents I have talked too.</p>
<p>Hence you take a 80 hour first year, 70 2nd and 60 3rd 4th and 5th. Thats 66 avg. per week. Still not 80. But thats for a specialty thats hard. Look at Dermo, they do 40s. Look at psych also. Internal med same thing.</p>
<p>1.) Internal med is considered a reasonably hard residency.</p>
<p>2.) "Going down" is not the same thing as 80-->70-->60. Could well be 80-->78-->76. If I were to make up numbers off the top of my head, I'd actually think 80-->75-->70-->80-->75-->70 and 70 henceforth.</p>
<p>Internal med isn't easy to do, but easy to get into. Going down means what I said. Do you even know what its like to work 80 hours per week? Over 5 years straight you would be lucky to be alive. It takes a BIG toll on your body. As I said I know this from the residents I've talked to. Are you guessing your going down of hours numbers. Yeah my round numbers aren't perfectly accurate but they are a good range +/- 2. They are what I know from talking to residents though, from many different specialties.Not just in my state either, also in Salt Lake, Philly, Cleavland. For something like surgery the drop isnt as drastic, but the vast majority of residencies aren't nearly as time consuming which is why those specialties with less hours are harder to get.</p>
<p>Medicine residency is only 3 years.</p>
<p>Surgery residents likely do 80 hours most months over the entire 5 year course.</p>
<p>However, just like most things the number of hours worked and how difficult any given residency is, is almost entirely dependent on the hospital.</p>
<p>Further, while some hospitals are constantly pushing the limits of the 80 hour average b/c of costs other hospitals are increasing their house officer staff and selling their programs on lifestyle. Whether my colleagues and I are simply a bunch of sallies (a favorite term of one of my friends) or not, I can attest that many people are looking at lifestyle of both practice and residency. Residency lifestyle is probably the number one reason keeping me from really considering a surgery residency. Increasingly the popular residency programs to apply to are not the prestigious ones but the ones that offer the best location and lifestyle. My friends that are fourth years are much more concerned about picking out cities they like than how highly ranked the residency is.</p>