Look at facilities that are rung by your denomination if religious. Some CCRC that are connected to religious groups have charitable funds for people that run out of money so they won’t have to leave. One my Mom is in is like that but you have to already be resident there when run out of money. And you have to show ability to pay when accepted so it’s not for people already running low on funds. Not sure all the parameters. The charitable care fund is one thing our church raises money for each year.
It’s good to investigate all this way before needed. Also glad my parents moved while they could go into independent living and make friends and get involved etc.
I am of the belief that it’s best to not expect an inheritance. My husband and I didn’t expect one from our parents as we were making our life decisions (careers, home purchase, how many children to have, etc) and we raised our kids not to expect an inheritance from us. The message was “become self-sufficient”.
We were direct in our expectations of them. College was a time for personal/intellectual growth and fun, but they were responsible for making decisions as best they could, so upon graduation they could support themselves. We stressed that although their father and I were ‘financially comfortable’…and we might be willing to assist if we deemed there was a need…the priority was to make it on their own and to align their aspirations (travel, living/eating out at nice places, etc) with what they could achieve through their own hard work. Their father and I would pay for their undergraduate degree so they would have no debt. We are generous with our time and at times, with our resources, but we have always expected them to put in the work.
RookieCollegeMom posted: Personally, I would prefer my parents to have a good quality of life (and they will probably also live longer) than get their money.
I agree with that sentiment and I’m hoping my kids feel the same way about us. We have a comfortable lifestyle, but aren’t extravagant. We joke with them when we take a nice trip that we’re spending their inheritance, but we are also upfront that we still watch our spending. We tell them, our goal is to age gracefully and not be any financial burden on them.
Hitting the nail on the head about two things: planning so parents do not run out of money (so that may also mean choosing where to live as one needs or is projected to need assistance with activities of daily living, ADLs) and “health is wealth”.
Various areas and families have different choices.
DH’s father and grandfather both were in nice, well run skilled care (nursing home) facilities which Medicaid was paying for their care after the personal resources were not enough (SS, Pension, savings). FIL would have been happy to the end but Covid and the isolation, and he threw in the towel with contracting Covid - he lost his will to live and didn’t feel well (age 92 at death). MIL hung on at home, and only spent 2 weeks in skilled care – she did really well the first week and then her medical conditions made it clear she was dying and she did die in her sleep (one day before turning 92). The laws have made it to where one spouse can keep the home and some resources so Medicaid laws don’t force both H/W into skilled care (which did happen years ago).
Some will move closer to children/grandchildren, while others stay in the town/city they have lived at while able to manage ADLs - and then more decisions happen as there is a decline in ADLs.
Some folks have bad medical stuff that is truly difficult - people in their 40’s and 50’s with Dementia for example.
Just have to navigate and ‘play the game that life gives you’.
I have talked with my dad a lot about finances. He says he doesn’t want to spend his grandkids’ inheritance. I tell him that if my mom had survived him, there is no way he would want her to skimp on her care to leave more money to grandkids. So that is what he should do with his own care. First and foremost, the money my parents saved was meant to go to for their care. If there is anything left over thats a bonus. Also really can’t get behind taking resources that could be used for care and give it away instead to qualify for government paid care.
After doing senior care stuff from afar and from close by, close by is definitely much easier & less stressful for the kids.
Having seen several of the parent generation either need serious home health care or to move to a facility, I understand the feeling the parents are expressing. You work your entire life to accumulate assets, it just stinks to be paying 4 figures each month for help showering, dressing, etc. It’s not like you’re having fun spending the money on a cruise.
I’ve seen several people who had a lot of money and then when they died the only thing left was their home equity, they just used it all to cover end of life care.
I’ve seen a person live decades in the type of shape where friends and family said they would not want to live that way. What I learned is that did not mean they would off themselves, it meant they hoped that bad thing did not happen to them!
I for one would not skimp on myself to preserve an inheritance. I have given my kids debt free education to the best schools they could get into and it is their responsibilities to be self-sufficient. Thankfully, both kids are doing very well financially and would not need any inheritance.
I have told my kids my preference for staying in my home with home care if necessary and I have worked hard and invested well so I could afford it. Trust me, any facilities paid by Medicaid is not “nice”. The Medicaid payments to physicians and hospitals do not cover overhead and many physicians in our area do not accept or limit their Medicaid patients. My physician husband has visited many patients in various types of nursing care facilities and he would not recommend it unless the patient has absolute dementia.
My mom and I were talking about her friends who tell her that they can’t do this or that because they are very concerned about leaving money to their kids and grandchildren.
This is only my opinion that I gave my mom. When people say they don’t want to spend on this or that because they want to leave money to their (doing very well offspring), it’s an excuse not to spend money.
Some people don’t like to spend money, the elderly grew up/lived through the depression. They have issues about running out of money. They lived a life saving and pinching pennies. You don’t teach an old dog new tricks as they say.
I have a neighbor in hospice right now. She and her husband would never spend a penny more than Medicare would pay. So as she became worse, he did all the caregiving. To the detriment of his health. She really needed to be in a facility. Nope, not going to spend any of her money on that. Went into a rehab facility and came home exactly after Medicare stopped paying. Now on hospice and actually happy because it’s not coming out of their pockets.
My mother cared for my grandparents in her apartment for many years. Then my grandparents’ remaining savings were consumed by my grandmother’s nursing home years and then the first part of my grandfather’s nursing home years. Living in a nursing home is no fun, but I do not recall any difference to my grandfather after he became a Medicare patient. Note - This example was 30 years ago.
Is it just me, or do you feel weird expecting your kids to take care of you in your old age?
I have a friend who told me that she’s moving across country to be with her ds1’s family whether he wants her there or not. For some reason, that didn’t sit well with me. I mean, we get along well with our kids and expect that they will take care of us, and certainly we have modeled that with my parents, but I feel weird telling my kids that that’s what’s happening.
I would not tell my DD, but it is expected and understood. We don’t do nursing homes in our culture and she is an only. I will have enough money so that she can get help with any care I need. She helps me take her of her grandmother when she is around and would never want her to be in a nursing home. She’d be very upset with me in fact and reminds me when she isn’t home to take good care of her grandma while she’s gone.
Well at some point it’s highly likely H and or I will need care. We have enough money to hire people or to go to assisted living (I won’t rule that out) but either way there will still be some things a family member will likely will need to do. It’s much easier on them if I live close rather than over a thousand miles away.
I work with a LPN whose mother is cared for at home. The mother is bed bound. The facility we work for (me as a RN, BSN) has private pay and does have residents that have Medicaid paying.
I agree, no one would ‘recommend’ skilled care (nursing home) unless necessary. A blanket statement about facilities paid by Medicaid - that may be true in your area – and more so true if Medicaid is primary or only source of facility income, but it is not with facilities elsewhere – H’s dad and grandpa in WI and the facility I work at in AL (which is one of 50 in 4 states under primarily family owned company). I know our facility balances their books with enough private pay and our rehab rooms. A private room can be fixed up quite like home. Families can make various things work based on their situation. There also are places run by various churches/religious.
Agree with @deb922 about how some people do not want to spend their money, and families getting to either having the individual qualifying for Hospice, investing their time to care for their family member/coordinating outside care, having the available resources spent, or getting the individual into some level of care facility.
Learning about the options based on needs and budget. Planning before health issues have reality at your doorstep.
Please don’t misunderstand what I wrote above. We have no intention of denying ourselves/skimping on anything we need regarding our care just so we can leave some money to ds.
We paid full freight for ds to attend a top university. He graduated with no debt. He has a fantastic job. He has said out loud to us that he doesn’t want our money. My dh has no expectation/desire to inherit anything from his mother and encourages her to spend and enjoy what she has. No one is counting on/waiting around for an inheritance from anybody. However, all things being equal, I would much rather drop dead in my own home before needing to spend big $$ on my care so that whatever I happen to have at the time would go to ds and any future progeny. I’m not sure what is so bad about that.
The gifting we have done to ds has been within the yearly limits not requiring the filing of a 709. It’s intended for any future grad school, should he choose to attend. If he doesn’t, that’s fine. We have a maximum total dollar amount in mind, so those gifts won’t continue in perpetuity anyway. If he doesn’t go in the next 2-3 years, those gifts will cease. I’m not trying to manipulate the system to deplete assets so I will be poor and qualify for Medicaid.
As far as moving to be near ds when/if we need assistance - I would only do that to make his life simpler. I would never expect him to personally care for me. But, I have many friends with aging parents, and it is definitely easier (though certainly not easy at all!) for those who have their parents in facilities that are near to them.
Well, my folks were divorced… so based on my own experience (mom followed us to CO years ago, transferred her dad to nursing home here; dad and wife still in NY) AND stories from very many other families … managing from a distance is really hard, especially if it is a fly-to destination.
Managing failing & mentally needy parents in a fly to destination was a living hell. Besides the decade of slow failure, the worries, the safety, the lies, was the final year or forcing them into a home, the surgery-rehab-transfers between assorted care levels- hospice etc. was crazy. The number of daily phone calls, the hours spent, it all convinced me to let my mother live with us, even as she worsened. At least I did not have to drive daily to “the home” nor deal with constant calls. I will admit, her last year, I had set a hard limit after which I would have moved her as it was too much, and yet, so was the people in the home with the constant calling.
It’s all hard and I hope I remember that when I am old so I can be more mindful toward my kids.
Just wanted to mention that you can pay his grad school tuition directly to the school, and these payments will not count towards the annual or lifetime gifts. Ditto medical expenses as long as they are paid directly to the provider.
One of the main reasons we are moving near them is because we raised our own kids hundreds of miles from family. D and SIL are hoping to have kids and know that we are willing to help out with them. So they are all in favor!
We don’t have plans to actually live with them. And as I mentioned before, we are realistic that while staying in our own place is preferred, we will not ask that we are “never put in a home”. Thankfully when my Dad passed away my Mom (who had Alzheimer’s) readily agreed to go to assisted living. But one of my siblings and I lived 800 miles away. We were traveling to see her about every 6 weeks. It was tough, I was still working and used so much PTO that I had none left for my own medical needs. My sister had 2 teens and a husband who travels. And cost of airfare/car rental/hotel/meals adds up.
This has given me something to think about. Due to recent circumstances, h and I agreed that we never ever want to live with our kids and have them take care of us. It would depress me way more than being in the worst of homes. But, I can see if I am far away and need help figuring out where to go, etc that they move me close to them. I wouldn’t have a problem with that and could see needing help with that. I definitely don’t expect them to help though
My in-laws are not doing well. MIL has Alzheimer’s . Several years ago mil fell and broke her shoulder and they moved in with SIL to try to recover. It was a disaster. Her memory went downhill fast and it was such a burden. H got them moved into AL. They have fantastic LTC care so it was essentially free and FIL recently got a huge VA settlement so $$$ wouldn’t be an issue for several years even without insurance. But after she recovered she wanted to leave so they have been living in an apartment for old people - until last week. FIL who is in horrible health just can’t take care of her anymore. Instead of going into a home, they moved back with SIL at her insistence even though they aren’t in good physical health and have tons of family drama. Well it took one week. Mil just fell and broke her hip and wrist. Due to covid long waits in the ER and no room here, she’s being shipped 1:30 for surgery. I’m surprised they have room since they’re eaten up more with covid than we are. My big fear is that they will release her and try to rehab at home. That will not go well. And the sad part is I know it’s not what mil would have wanted. Her dad and brother both had it and she had to deal with that and would say as much.
Edit - so I can see now how it would help both parties to move closer when physically able, so it would be easier to move into a close nursing home later. but I would definitely have the discussion why I was moving and only if they were on board
I think there is a significant difference between having family/friends supplement care (saving money) and gifting money to kids so you can qualify for government paid care. No issue with the former.
My siblings and our respective spouses work. Also do not live in the same city. So there are limits of care we can provide for my dad during the day. Could have home care but that isn’t necessarily cheap and right now, there are supply issues (at least in our area) because home care agencies are having problems finding employees. Having run the numbers, home care options (while still paying current expenses for his house, utilities, food, etc) aren’t much less expensive than facility living (and adding additional home care would make costs at home higher than facility living).
Talking with my dad recently about the issue a lot (unfortunately with memory/cognitive issues same conversations happen repeatedly), he would prefer to be at home. But its the home he shared with my mom. That house no longer exists. Its now a place where he has constant reminders my mom is gone and where he has limited social interaction opportunities and is on his own for food (can’t warm a can of soup and now can’t drive). And at least some part of the resistance to nursing homes from what I have seen is based on the reality of life at some point. Its no fun going through the end of life stage. Needing constant care for routine daily tasks. Looking some control. Memory/cognitive issues. Those are independent of where you are living. And the reality for many people is those days are spent in nursing homes (paid for by Medicaid) so its easy to equate the two.
From what I have seen with family and friends, there can be a lot of issues with care of elderly. You can move to your kids (and I know many people who have done that to be near grandchildren). Does that mean you will expect your adult kids to take care of you as you age? If so, are your kids understanding that is part the deal? If you have multiple kids but don’t live close to all of them, how will shared care work when you are older (I know in my family my sister had no issue monopolizing parent time when her kids were young but complained that parent care should be shared when our parents were older)?
How will the timing of your getting older fit within your kids’ lives when it happens? If they are married, what is the situation of their spouse’s parents? Will they be able to care for 2 sets of parents (and still live a life, work, spend time with their kids who may not live near you)? Changes is lives may make doing what you did with your parents a much bigger challenge or at least a very different issue.
And ultimately, answers to those questions will differ for different people. What works for some won’t necessarily work for all. One thing I did find out is that even think about maybe a parent would be better in some type of facility living arrangement, and everyone and his brother will come out of the woodwork to offer their opinion on that (and its rarely positive or constructive).