<p>has anybody been able to find any statistics or website that actually shows acceptance percentages for URM's at top tier schools? i'd be interested in seeing that.</p>
<p>About 150 points if all top schools are anything like Yale.</p>
<p>I don't know the percentages, but I know that affirmative action benefits are approx. the equivalent of 200 points on the SAT.</p>
<p>i don't want "about" and "i don't know". i need something definite.
thanks though. that makes my 2200 more like a 2350 or 2400 then i guess.</p>
<p>try this link;<a href="http://www.jbhe.com/preview/autumn06preview.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.jbhe.com/preview/autumn06preview.html</a></p>
<p>I believe this is what you're looking for. However, as many have stated in these threads, SAT's and test scores are only PART of the equation.</p>
<p>@token</p>
<p>We have a black kid at our school. He's a smart kid, certainly, but not exactly Harvard caliber. He got a 2200 on his SAT, and his extracurriculars were pretty good, but nothing too special; he played varsity football for a while, but he didn't do research or anything of the sort.</p>
<p>Guess what? He got into every single school to which he applied, including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, and I believe with scholarships to each. Keep in mind, our school is a nationally ranked, top 50 public high school, with a class full of absolutely brilliant kids, none of whom got into Harvard, even though they all have near eidetic memory. It's absurd.</p>
<p>@madville</p>
<p>Caltech has only 3 black freshmen, and in past years has had none. Wow. I suppose that's because they don't care how much "diversity" you have; if they feel you can't do the work, they won't accept you, and it's as simple as that.</p>
<p>How is he not "Harvard caliber".. if he got good grades, and that amazing SAT, I see no reason to second guess his acceptance.</p>
<p>@Celita</p>
<p>Many people at our school received much higher SAT scores and much higher GPAs, and were just as nice as he. Our valedictorian's going to Brown (I believe). He's definitely a very smart guy, but honestly, if he were white, I don't think he'd have gotten in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I suppose that's because they don't care how much "diversity" you have; if they feel you can't do the work, they won't accept you, and it's as simple as that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>CalTech is a different animal. However, MIT a similar school, which we all now is highly regarded has a different approach to their admissions strategy.</p>
<p>If you were to look at the toatal numbers of AA admits at the top schools though, hardly enough raw numbers to cause as much consternation as it does. I'm not saying that it has to be so but not one school has representative percentage of AA enrollments.</p>
<p>"If you were to look at the toatal numbers of AA admits at the top schools though, hardly enough raw numbers to cause as much consternation as it does."</p>
<p>I agree. If AA actually benefits few URMs and yet causes so much controversy, racism, and resentment, isn't it counterproductive?</p>
<p>Could I just ask, how many people constantly dragging this argument back into the discussion actually attend top 20 schools?
If so, how many minorities have any of you met that you have actually considered intellectually inferior to other students?
Are the minorities at your schools failing or otherwise struggling academically more significantly than others?
Having worked in an Ivy League admissions office for my on campus job this year, this debate is way way way overdone. Do most realize how much more significant legacy status, and letter of recomendation from influential people can be? I saw a double legacy URM from NORTH DAKOTA with a 2200 denied. I saw a white kid, with a 1240, but a sick essay, rec, and grades get accepted. Adcoms factor race certainly, but don't get your panties in a bunch that somehow the URM's are somehow less deserving. Getting in is difficult for everyone, and being a URM is factored in , just like being that rare white applicant from Alaska, or an Intel Prize Winner. There are lots and lots of moving parts of admissions and it is a crap shoot. I can say conclusively that every application I saw of an admitted student was deserving.
Now could everyone just worry about themselves?</p>
<p>
[quote]
If AA actually benefits few URMs and yet causes so much controversy, racism, and resentment, isn't it counterproductive?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For whom? </p>
<p>Certainly those who have and are benefitting aren't the major source of complaintaints.</p>
<p>@sleph</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can say conclusively that every application I saw of an admitted student was deserving.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nearly everyone who applies to these schools is, to some degree, deserving. The problem is that some are more deserving than others, and affirmative action undoubtedly puts less well qualified students in places that should have gone to more qualified students. Besides, what the hell, if everyone's academically deserving, why not just lower the standards? Heck, just let everyone in! All the applicants are wonderful people, and golly gosh gee, we simply shouldn't place barriers to a good education in front of them! Boy, I suppose it's nearly impossible to discriminate among such high level candidates anyway; a lottery would probably be best, huh?</p>
<p>
[quote]
If so, how many minorities have any of you met that you have actually considered intellectually inferior to other students?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, with an average SAT score of about 100-150 points lower than those of non-minorities, I'd say that there's a greater chance that a less intellectual minority will be admitted over a more intellectual non-minority. Granted, everyone at Ivy League institutions will, to some degree, be intellectual, but again, some more so than others.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are the minorities at your schools failing or otherwise struggling academically more significantly than others?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This has been rehashed ad nauseam, and yet the data remain the same; at nearly all institutions (yes, even top 20s), minorities fail to graduate at a rate higher than non-minorities, and presumably, this would not exist without affirmative action. Present whatever anecdotal information you'd like, but it won't change anything.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Now could everyone just worry about themselves?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes. I'm doing that now, actually.</p>
<p>150 points, is actually the amount your score could vary from sitting to sitting, according to Collegeboard.</p>
<p>So, I don't know how much it could matter.</p>
<p>I guess is is your excuse for everything in life. I didn't get into college or I didn't get that job because of Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>It may or may not be true, it may or may not help, but life is unfair so deal with it.</p>
<p>If there is a tie (which is subjective) between you and a non-URM, you get in and he/she doesn't.</p>
<p>^^yes exactly and nothing more</p>
<p>I strong believe that being an urm does not give you 200 extra points on the sats. Where do you people come up with these numbers?</p>
<p>
[quote]
150 points, is actually the amount your score could vary from sitting to sitting, according to Collegeboard.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, that's not true. On average, even with coaching, your score is likely to vary no more than 30 points on the sum total of math and critical reading.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess is is your excuse for everything in life. I didn't get into college or I didn't get that job because of Affirmative Action.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Clearly; just because I hate affirmative action I'll blame it for everything that happens to me in life. I haven't done that here, and I never will.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...life is unfair so deal with it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What if someone told you that he was going to light your house on fire (out of everybody else's in the neighborhood, yours was selected)? Would you complain? Would you say "Oh, life is unfair, I'll just deal with it."?</p>
<p>I didn't think so. You'd probably report him to the police, and if it turns out that his behavior was legal, you'd try to stop him and/or try to petition to make arson illegal. Granted, affirmative action isn't like arson at all, but it's a similar concept.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If there is a tie (which is subjective) between you and a non-URM, you get in and he/she doesn't.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>I strong believe that being an urm does not give you 200 extra points on the sats. Where do you people come up with these numbers?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Boy, I love it when people say stuff like this, because it's almost funny to watch how they try to defend affirmative action by saying it really doesn't exist. I've got news for you: it does. Check out Yale's average SAT score data:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/ncaa-certification/aintegrity.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.yale.edu/ncaa-certification/aintegrity.pdf</a> (page 44)</p>
<p>The average SAT score of a Hispanic Yale freshman in 2001-02 was 1336. Of an Asian freshman, it was 1482. That's a difference of about 150 points. This, however, is small potatoes compared to what the University of Michigan was doing before affirmative action was banned. There, in 2005, the average black applicant had an SAT score of 1160 and a GPA of 3.4, and the average Asian applicant had an SAT score of 1400 and a GPA of 3.9. That's a 240 point SAT score difference and a .5 GPA difference. To put it another way:</p>
<p>
[quote]
In terms of probability of admissions in 2005, black and Hispanic students with a 1240 SAT and a 3.2 high school GPA, for instance, had a 9 out of 10 chance of admissions, while whites and Asians in this group had only a 1 out of 10 chance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's no way any thinking person can look at this and tell me with a straight face that's affirmative action isn't a big deal.</p>
<p>Don't listen to anyone whos says being a URM doesn't help alot.</p>
<p>If someone who was a white/ORM could get into a top 15 school, if he was a URM he could get into a top 5-10 school.</p>
<p>Being a URM helps a great deal in admissions. And, in my limited experience, URM students tend to pursue easier majors than white/asian students, which could be a result of their quantiative skills being weaker (since many have lower SAT scores than whites/ORMs at the same schools).</p>
<p>However, "easier" is completely subjective. In my opinion, Sociology, Psych, Literature, African American studies, Cul Anth are examples of "easier" majors. The proportion of URM students in majors such as engineering, economics, math, and hard science is lower than for those "easier" majors I just described.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with that though - I like soc and psych majors much more than Egr majors lol. </p>
<p>Btw, at most top schools, grade inflation can buoy pretty much anyone through in certain majors.</p>
<p>aristotle, thanks for all the evidence. It's interesting how many people deny AA exists or try to explain AA away.</p>