How much harder does it get?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Hello all!</p>

<p>I just finished my first semester as an undergrad chemE. I took pretty much intro classes (Calc I, Physics Mechanics, Chem I, and some others). Next semester I am taking the second level of each class (17 hours total, same as the fall semester).</p>

<p>I really enjoyed my first semester and rarely felt stressed. I ended up with a 3.94 GPA, which was all As and one A-. I'm pretty confident that I can pull off a 4.0 in the next semester.</p>

<p>When did the "going get tough" for you all? Does it suddenly hit you when you start taking your major classes, or is the whole adjusting to college thing part of it? I've definitely seen how I can improve my study habits from the fall. I also see that organization is key.</p>

<p>Happy new year..</p>

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<p>soon young jedi, soon</p>

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<p>I would also like to know this. I’m an EE major starting 2nd semester soon. Will it start to get really hard once you are done with all the math/chem/physics courses and start taking the engineering courses (for me circuits, electronics, statics and dynamics, electromagnetics, some others…)?</p>

4

<p>Opinion differs, but most people believe that Calculus II and Physics II are the hardest “weeder” courses in engineering. And it looks like you’re taking them next semester. Calc II is integral calculus, and depending on your school probably also infinite sequences and series, and polar and parametic equations. I was on the quarter system so it was a tad different for me. Differential calc, which you just studied, is easy. It’s cookbook math, meaning you just follow the steps and voila problem solved (your only chance at problem solving and creativity was when you covered related rates problems). Integral calc is doing the opposite of differential calc. “Here’s Function A, what is Function B such that the derivative of Function B is equal to Function A?” And that is where the cookbook goes in the trash and you have to learn different techniques, be creative, stretch your algebra skills, etc. There’s a lot more material in calc II and as I said, a lot of students hit the wall in this class. So maybe your dreams will come true and things will get harder next semester.</p>

<p>As for physics II, that’s electricity and magnetism (E&M), another weeder. Not many concepts from physics I will be relevant for this class, beyond F=ma and the concept of potential energy (<em>maybe</em> torque depending on what you cover). This is too “abstract” for some people. You’re dealing with invisible force fields and tricky-to-grasp concepts like voltage, instead of sliding blocks or something. There are integrals, but pretty simple stuff compared to what you’ll do in Calc II. The worst you’ll do is trig substitution (you’ll see).</p>

<p>Those are supposedly the hardest of the engineering boot camp classes. As for what happens later in your major opinion varies even more. Most people think that it gets very easy after your sophomore year and you’re past the introductory stuff. After that, each class builds in some way upon another class you’ve had, rather than being nothing but brand new material (this, of course, is not set in stone). Kind of like how multivariable calculus is easy because it’s the same stuff you learned before only in functions of multiple variables.</p>

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<p>if you’re talking about integration, we touched up on it at the end of calc 1. I hate it!! I hate all this substitution you have to do. is that basically all calc 2 is?</p>

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<p>TomServo,
Thank you for the insight. I really liked related rates and optimization type problems…problems where I had to think a little to figure out how to solve them. If Calc II is more of that, then I’ll be more interested, thus trying harder. Integrals were so-so…we only had one test on them (out of 4) and then more on the final. I’ve looked into some of the topics, and after spending 15ish minutes I understand the basics of solids of revolution. </p>

<p>I’m expecting physics II to be the hardest. I had never taken a physics class before physics I, so it took a little getting used to. I have the same professor as last semester (he is good but tough), so at least I’ll know what to expect. I know nothing about E&M, so it will definitely be an interesting experience.</p>

<p>First semester was honestly easier than I was led to believe. I’m going to go into the second semester with the mindset that it’ll be hard. I also found the joys of the internet a little too late in the semester for helping me learn concepts that my so-so calc professor didn’t really get across. (Shout out to Khan Acad.) </p>

<p>Thanks again for the thoughts.</p>

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<p>Depends on your school but there are just some classes that’ll be very challenging. It def gets harder from freshman year. I thought that my sophomore spring and junior years were the most challenging. I think senior year is still hard but I guess im used to it now and have come to expect it. Freshman fall was my easiest quarter in school.</p>

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<p>Calc II is largely about integration. Topics such as:</p>

<p>-integration by parts
-trig substitution
-log rule
-partial fraction decomposition of a rational polynomial expression (so that you can use the log rule)
-u-substitution
-definite integrals (area under the curve, surfaces of revolution, volumes, physics problems)
-completing the square
-numerical integration techniques (even worse than it sounds, depending on what you cover)</p>

<p>And depending on your school:</p>

<p>-polar equations (differentiating, integrating, graphing, converting to/from rectangular)
-parametric equations (differentiation, integrating, graphing, converting to/from rectangular)
-sequences
-series
-power series (absolutely hated them the first time I studied them at home, enjoyed them the second time I studied them in-class, but a very useful tool for engineering regardless)</p>

<p>The good thing about Calc II is that some of the hardest stuff you’ll never use again (surfaces of revolution, arc length, volumes, pipe method, shell method, etc.), you’ll just use the much easier multivariable calc equivalents once you pass that class.</p>

<p>If you’ve never studied E&M and I strongly suggest you start watching those Khan videos now, on charge, force between charges, electric fields, electric potential energy, voltage, current, resistance, etc. Try to get a feel for these concepts. Magnetism is kind of like the bizarro world version of electrical forces, so it’s easier to jump into that after learning all about electricity.</p>

<p>I’m using the Halliday book, what book are you using for physics?</p>

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<p>Tom, I see you’re in Ohio. Which school do you go to?</p>

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<p>Most engineering programs also have a course you take later on in your sequence, where you’ll be required to write up big long lab reports, with proper formatting, pretty graphs, well thought out content, and be clear and concise. This will probably be one of your harder classes.</p>

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<p>I’m at CSCC right now, doing my math and science prereqs for engineering and physics (and I’ll probably do some general studies here too, I can take every math I’ll ever need <em>except</em> for the vector analysis class, but I can take my 1st-year chem and physics, etc. here). I’ll go to OSU after my two years in CC. I just finished my freshman year, so I’ve finished the whole calculus sequence from differential to multivariable, as well as physics I and II (about to take III, but only because I’m also majoring in engineering physics, otherwise most engineers don’t bother).</p>

12

<p>The answer probably depend on the school; ask some upperclassmen/women at your school.</p>

<p>From my experiences in EE, I think the classes are harder, but you also get better at learning. The upper-level courses are probably also taught better. Are fourier transforms harder than integration? Yes, but that’s probably because I had Calculus in HS. My school doesn’t curve, but I think the curves get easier at most schools in upper-level courses.</p>

<p>Since you seem to be doing pretty well, don’t worry too much about it and just focus on taking it one class at a time.</p>

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<p>Tom,
I’ve familiarized myself with the first half of your list. Hopefully they won’t be <em>too</em> complicated. As far as watching the Khan videos for E&M, I’m not sure if that’s a good idea. I’m taking a “modern” version of the class which uses only principles, not formulas. In MM&I we knew 3 principles then had to derive everything else from those. I tried watching a few Khan for MMI, and he brought up lots of formulas. I like the way my class is taught better.</p>

<p>We use Matter and Interactions II by Chebay and Sherwood. We used it for MM&I also, and it has a lot of errors. I’ll be looking for something to supplement it with (I got the used edition for $0.00. :slight_smile: So, any suggestions? I have Feynmann’s 3 volume set, but in the forward he warns he’s not pleased with the outcome of his E&M…</p>

<p>I think lab reports will definitely get me later on. We have online labs in physics and chemistry and postlabs for only chemistry. They are not complex at all. </p>

<p>Right now I’m planning on minoring in physics, so I have 4 more physics classes to go after E&M. :)</p>

14

<p>I read Feynman’s Six Easy Pieces and can’t recommend it. Maybe the full version you have is better.</p>

<p>I am guesstimating that Feynman’s reputation as a great physics teacher (and the reputation of his teaching books) grew before the age when there wasn’t much physics being written for the lay-person and there was no such thing as snazzy graphics to clearly illustrate points. I can think of a lot of other physics books I have read which were written for the lay-person which I found much more useful and better-written. That said, probably the best thing I’ve read on relativity for the lay-person was written in the forties or fifties, so who knows…</p>

15

<p>Interesting. I’m on Volume I on Lectures on Physics (stuff I’ve known for a while from chemistry), and I think it’s slightly below my level. Maybe it gets tougher…I have almost a week of break left to find out.</p>

<p>I don’t think his lectures were written for the layperson. He taught them at Cal Tech then transcribed them. They’re meant for the intelligent physics student with little to no background. I agree though that there are probably better books out there. I am just getting tired of picking up books from Amazon or my library that I just read a few pages of then forget all together.</p>

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<p>when i see someone at a community college getting a 3.94 no sweat, it makes me weep when I see my 3.2 gpa in Princeton’s engineering program…especially when we have similar career prospects ; (</p>

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<p>well, ib612, maybe you should switch to a community college then :P</p>

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<p>ib612, if you’re talking about me as I assume you are since that’s my GPA, I don’t go to a community college. I go to a top-20 engineering school.</p>

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<p>200k for a degree would make anyone weep</p>

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<p>^ Public school, in state ftw.
But yes, it would make me weep too.</p>