<p>Many schools don’t have the resources to have a separate team of psychologists / social workers and guidance counselors. So the same GC who is writing the reco letter for Johnny is also dealing with getting help from abusive situation that Mary is in or the drug problem that Susie is dealing with.</p>
<p>Highly unlikely that they are “dealing” with those troubled students to the extent to which you think they are. They may have weekly, or even daily, meetings with those kids but they are meetings to keep them on track at school and not so much dealing with their issues.</p>
<p>My sons attended two different high schools, and both times, the guidance people have been excellent. The oldest son, a NM scholar, got tremendous support from guidance as he selected his schools or looked for outside scholarships. The younger son is just a sophomore, and he already has met with our college counselor about schools. He also enjoys dealing with his regular counselor who handles his schedule. Older son graduated with a class of 85 or so from a small school. Younger son is one of 350 students in his class. </p>
<p>The guidance department also has several workshops for various things, including one for students interested in playing D1 sports (we have had several students do this), one or two for financial aid and scholarships and others for SAT/ACT prep. Guess what? Only a handful of students/parents attend. We do an adequate job of publicizing these things, too.</p>
<p>DS was a candidate for Ivy league college. Perfect SAT score, National Merit Scholar, Val, public high school, approx 400 in graduation class. Applied to two IVY’s, Princeton and Harvard. Flat out rejection from Princeton, waitlist at Harvard. GC recommendation came from “substitute” GC because his regular counselor was undergoing cancer treatments. Who really knows how much, if any, difference the counselors rec made in the long run. We never read it, and we’ll never know how much it factored into the decision process anyway. At our high school, the counselors, teachers, administrators are far more concerned with keeping the school off the NYS “bad schools” list than they are with placing students in Ivy league schools. Most are products of the SUNY system, and are complacent to have our students attend there.
Thats not a crime as the SUNY schools are fine schools, DD attends one now. I got some first hand knowledge as I worked in a HS guidance office for six years. The GC’s days are spent dealing with emotional issues, special ed reports and meetings. Again, their success is not measured by which schools (Ivy or otherwise) the students gain acceptance too. They are driven by state mandates/reporting. Que sera, sera.</p>
<p>Our s’s school has a college counseling office. Some of the staff are very knowledgeable. They are organized and efficient. We counted our blessings.</p>
<p>Ditto Pizzagirl. Based on the information presented at the first “College Night” I attended during my son’s junior year, I didn’t expect very much guidance from the guidance counselors at his large public high school, as their expertise seemed directed at in-state schools and my son was already insisting he wanted to go elsewhere. I took it upon myself to be his advisor and have spent countless hours over the past 18 months researching options and evaluating choices. We’re fortunate I have the time and ability to do this. Some of my son’s classmates hired private counselors. Those who don’t have an interested parent nor a couple grand to spend on a private counselor may have more restricted options, although those options aren’t necessarily bad. The in-state schools, both private and public, are excellent, even if they don’t appeal to my son (I wish they did! I don’t want him to go so far away).</p>
<p>However, his school guidance counselor has exceeded my expectations. I assumed he would know very little about the out-of-state LACs that interest my son, but he has been familiar with all of them. And, when I got wigged out into thinking he’d be getting nothing but rejections this spring, (after spending too much time here on CC), the GC assured me that S hasn’t over-reached. I hope he’s right!</p>
<p>I don’t expect public HS GC’s to be much help to students applying to Top 100 schools. “Hey GC, contrast Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Cooper Union and MIT for me.” Hopeless. I understand that. But where is it appropriate to draw the line? Is it OK for the GC to say “I’m here to help” and then fail to perform the most rudimentary tasks competently? Is that OK? How about sending out SAT scores to SAT-optional schools. Is that acceptable? Mixing up LORs? Failing to correct transcript errors? Guiding students away from schools that would be appropriate for them?</p>
<p>I would have to say that my expectations of a GC wouldn’t be so much to help compare/contrast a school like you say, but more along the lines of “which schools have you visited” What did you like about them, what didn’t you like about them type questions to help a student who asks for that kind of help organize their thoughts. I don’t think that is unreasonable. Maybe offering a suggestion to look at a similar school they have knowledge about based on previous students, etc.</p>
<p>I fully expect a GC to know when kids need to take various tests, how to get those scores to the schools, having a well written school profile to send along, know how to develop a well written counselor recommendation for schools that ask for one. Absolutely they should fix incorrect transcripts with ease. As for sending SAT scores to SAT optional schools…sounds like you had an issue with that. I can’t answer that question because it is too vague. Same with guiding them away from schools that would be appropriate for them–in your opinion it might be appropriate but maybe it isn’t. You wouldn’t be the first person to overestimate their child’s abilities but again, without specifics, how can one answer that?</p>
<p>Our school handled the organizational part of the process very well in general. They did ask what schools we had visited and had some suggestions based on that. They also had a very good checklist of things a student might think about when visiting or considering schools.</p>
<p>^^ “… sounds like you had an issue with that.”</p>
<p>It was one of my D’s friends. Decent student, awful standardized test taker. The friend lost what would have been a wonderful match because the score was sent … and therefore could not be ignored. She ended up at a woefully inappropriate school … one recommended by the GC.</p>
<p>My point is simply that relying on a GC can lead to some unintended consequences. So it’s important that students (and their bill-paying parents) have some idea of what “appropriate guidance” looks like.</p>
<p>NewHope–as with everything, yes, there will be good GC and bad GC’s. Did your D’s friend research this school on her own, did she go on a campus visit, did she meet with the admissions people there, talk to professors and students in her intended major before accepting? Like I said earlier, the GC should help with the “process” but the student needs to take some responsibility too.</p>
<p>Also, why didn’t she retake the SAT then–again, taking responsibility for her part of the process. No, the score shouldn’t have been sent though.</p>
<p>My DD wemt to public HS, GC was great. </p>
<p>GC met with child and me numerous times, in additon to reviewing all of DDs info. GC asked me, is there ANYTHING not on applications I should now. I discussed why DD had some issues. GC said great, that is what I need to know. </p>
<p>DD was waitlisted at state flagship. GC said she could make calls to get DD pushed up list, but please take the weekend and only ask her to make calls if DD would go there.</p>
<p>I thought of our kids’ hs GC – who was a very nice person, by the way – as an ATM. We needed her to “dispense” various things – recommendations, transcripts, etc. – and she performed well by that standard. She simply didn’t have enough knowledge of our kids, nor of schools outside our geographic area, to be a resource in any way – even if she had had the time, which she didn’t. I found the process fun, so I did it myself.</p>
<p>I was happy that the GCs actually took care with the letters they wrote. In S2’s case, the regional rep wrote S a comment about something that could only have come from the parent questionnaire. S1’s GC sent an update to her letter when he won some very big awards after apps had already been submitted.</p>
<p>They also asked the parents if there was anything else they should know. We used that area to mention LD issues (for which neither kid had accommodations) and about my illness (which neither kid wanted to discuss in an essay). Don’t know if that info ever made it into the letters, but at least it gave context for what the GCs would have to say.</p>
<p>My kids requested unofficial transcripts at the very beginning of senior year (after all of junior grades were posted) to make sure they were correct. We had an issue earlier in HS when one of the guys was applying for an internship and the transcript was wrong, so we knew to verify before sending out college apps.</p>
<p>S1’s GC knew all about Harvey Mudd, which was nice and somewhat expected for an east coast HS.</p>
<p>As for researching schools, the guys and I took charge of that. They wouldn’t apply anywhere they couldn’t see themselves happily attending and were generally quite cooperative and excited about the process. We had a really good time together. It was also an excellent opportunity to teach some real-life skills and strategies.</p>
<p>Where I thought the GCs could have helped was with reality checks – when 28 kids from the IB program apply to Yale SCEA, there are not going to be happy outcomes. Not even Naviance dissuaded these kids (and/or parents).</p>
<p>CountingDown, maybe she did dissuade and they didn’t listen to her either :)</p>
<p>MNColl - Significant failures often have multiple failure points along the way. In my D’s friend’s case this was certainly true, starting with a single-parent household with no history of higher education … and ending with lamentable decisions on the GC’s part. (In answer to your inquiry whether the girl took the SAT a second time, the answer is no. The GC told her “Don’t bother. Your top school choice is score-optional.”)</p>
<p>Is the GC responsible for this girl’s debacle? Of course not. In retrospect the family was too trusting, and was also unwilling to accept outside help. The student didn’t educate herself well enough about the college admission process. But the GC obviously knew the student was at risk (re: the abysmal SAT score), which makes it hard to excuse doing the one thing that hurt most … sending the score, when he shouldn’t have.</p>
<p>It really seems like the best that you can do for your kids is to become more informed yourself. You have to wonder if that future “physician” even knew the right questions to ask your GC. I also wonder if she did actually sit down with the GC and voice what her plan was. Unfortunately these people are often so busy that a kid really has to force them to listen and get the answers that they want.</p>
<p>Parents can also talk to the schools GC. They are there to help and are more responsive when the parent is the one that is asking. At my kids school the GC is the one that decides what classes they take, such as what level they should be in. If you want your child in a particular class they are the ones to talk to.</p>
<p>Some schools have classes for kids that don’t have a clue about getting ready for college or scholarships and things like that. Basically it is a simple computer class that teaches skills that will help kids to apply for scholarships and how to find them for starters. It seems like the quality of the GC is really based on the person in the position and what is expected from them.</p>
<p>NH–I guess if my DD’s friend was in that situation (basically not knowing enough about the college process to make an informed decision) and actually her best friend is in that situation, I would have helped guide her on the right path. I have taken some of their friends on college tours with us because their parents don’t know that they should go OR they assume they can’t get into schools for whatever reason…even though they easily can. Other cases where “college is too expensive” and then simply running through the cost calculators and using an educated guess on household income showing them that even going to the most expensive school isn’t going to cost them anything…doing all of this with parental knowledge…for the most part. DD’s friend’s parents are almost forbidding her to go to college because “she doesn’t need it”. She is on her own so we are working around that.</p>
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<p>Agreed with NewHope…unacceptable to send SAT scores to SAT optional schools. AND NO the student should NOT have to retake the SAT. The student made a decision to apply to SAT optional schools. GC sending those scores is more than unacceptable.</p>
<p>I was a ONE parent campaign at our HS. They used to put the SAT scores ON the transcript. I politely asked them to remove it once…they refused (our Guidance office really struck out in advocacy for kids)…so I went to the principal, superintendent of schools and the Board of Education. I made my case…re: SAT optional schools and how putting these scores on the transcript was NOT what these students wanted. PLUS there HAD been typos on the transcripts…wrong SAT scores. After about 6 months of “discussion”…they agreed to remove the SAT scores from the transcripts.</p>
<p>Our HS guidance dept also had an issue with the way they computed weighted GPA. I KNEW something was wrong when my DD’s weight GPA was LOWER than her unweighted…with mostly AP and Honors courses. Again…it took about a year to resolve this…they were using some alien formula from when they converted number grades to the 4 pt. scale. I sent my kid’s hs transcripts to 10 guidance counselors at 10 different schools…and asked them if the weighted/unweighted GPAs looked correct…all agreed that her weighted should be HIGHER. The school just didn’t want to admit they were making a mistake.</p>
<p>Oh…and did I tell you about the picture of my son on his transcript…it wasn’t him. They refused to change that too.</p>
<p>Re: LD kids and college…the most important thing is for the school to have a good disabilities office that the KID will actually use. If the student won’t use the office, or there really isn’t one, the parents should try to direct their student elsewhere. We know several students with LDs who started off at their community college and demonstrated the necessary organization they needed to do college work. They then transferred to schools with articulation agreements with the community colleges. It worked VERY well for them.</p>
<p>thumper–the weighted/unweighted thing is silly. How could they think they were right??? WOW. Our high school doesn’t weight GPA, it does weigh class rank, which in the end helps a great deal more–especially for kids applying to very selective schools and needing that top 10% designation, and for scholarships, etc. You don’t see and all AP kid getting bumped out of the top 10% by a kid taking underwater basket weaving.</p>