<p>My son is planning to do a year abroad in a school sponsored program as a sophomore. The school gives credit for everything but math taken while abroad. </p>
<p>He is currently in Honors Geometry as a freshman (and he's completed Honors Algebra 1). The school is suggesting taking Honors Algebra 2 in two chunks -- one chunk the summer before France, the other chunk the summer after France. Then, junior year, Honors Pre-Calc, and senior year AP Calc AB.</p>
<p>He's not planning a math/science major in college. He's thinking more along the lines of international relations, possibly international business.</p>
<p>He's got lofty college goals --</p>
<p>There are other things to do in the summer besides do Algebra -- especially TWO summers devoted to 7 weeks of math. The transportation is a problem. He won't get his drivers license until the middle to end of the second summer. He has a sport that he would like to pursue during the summers -- it's a spring/summer sport. I would be doing almost nothing besides driving my son around all summer to manage drivers ed, algebra, and sports.</p>
<p>What are the ramifications of completing only 4 levels of high school math, and only having 3 actual high school math credits (Algebra 1 being an 8th grade course)?</p>
<p>Speaking from my research, it really depends on where he wants to go and what his specific major will be. For the most part a liberal arts major doesn't need all that much math, especially if you have a good reason for not taking it (as your son does with the study abroad). However, if he does want to go into business, and chooses to do something on the quantitative end like finance, having calculus is more important. Additionally, if he's looking at going to his flagship State U, there isn't much to worry about compared to a school like Harvard.</p>
<p>I personally don't see a reason to take more math than you need to if it's not something you'll need to know; however, unless you're positive it's not something he'll need, you may want to think about it. I suggest finding out exactly what he wants from college, and make him aware of the restrictions he may put on himself due to a lack of higher level math.</p>
<p>Question: they won't give him credit for math taken abroad, but can he take math there? Is it possible he could cover most of the material in the classes he's taking there? This just seems like such a weird condition to me.</p>
<p>Assuming your DS is mature enough to spend that amount of time that far away from home, the high school study-abroad program will clearly set him apart from so many other college applicants. You say he will still be able to take AP Calc AB. Other than you having to run ragged, I do not see any math academic issues when it comes times to apply to colleges. </p>
<p>Maybe you want to write to a college or two and pose the question to be on the safe side. After all, rules are made to be broken! :)</p>
<p>Is a distance-learning class a possibility his school will entertain? This would eliminate the logistics problem. Your son might even be able to take the course while abroad if the feedback mechanism is via the internet as with EPGY.</p>
<p>I think it would be difficult to take something in two chunks, separated by almost a full year of doing no math. But a year and a half of no math might be even more difficult. It is bad enough the amount of algebra 1 that gets forgotten with the traditional sequence of inserting geometry next; add another year and the problem is compounded.</p>
<p>Some schools list high school courses taken in middle school on their transcripts. Have you checked on your son's school policy in this regard?</p>
<p>My daughter did a foreign exchange and not only missed math for that year, but was unable to get into a math class the following year -- so she graduated high school with 2 years of math credit, 3 years of high school math (since like your son, she took geometry in 9th grade).</p>
<p>Definitely not ideal. She was accepted at U. of Chicago, NYU & Barnard. Basically the foreign exchange + language skills probably outweighted the lack of math, for a prospective humanities/liberal arts major. </p>
<p>While I don't think that is the best course of action, it obviously did not hurt in college admissions. </p>
<p>I think the best advice is for your son to do what is reasonably possible without feeling that he needs to make major sacrfices. If he has math through pre-calc, most colleges will accept that.</p>
<p>I think he actually <em>will</em> take math in France, but in French. The school feels -- with 40 years of program experience -- that it's not sufficient math for a math credit. Having seen the notebooks of returning students, it is probably equivalent to our Algebra 1.</p>
<p>The current school will allow a distance learning Algebra 2, done while in the US. Or, he can do Algebra 2 closer to home than his school, if we can find that option (haven't found it yet!). Distance learning for the math class while in France is probably not an option -- something about the internet connections not being available/reliable in the specific destination is what I gather.</p>
<p>EDIT: I asked a similar question of the group a few months ago. The focus I am looking for this go-round is how many high school credits does he <em>need</em> and what level math does he <em>need</em> when we're talking elite college admissions. For example, suppose we are talking Cornell or Georgetown. We're way early to be making a college list but these are the two that come up from this focused kid.</p>
<p>I don't think it is necessary to sacrifice two summers to math, especially if there are more interesting things that your son could do in the summer. What about taking Honors Algebra 2 as a junior and Honors Precalculus as a senior? Then, if he really feels that he wants to have first-semester calculus out of the way before enrolling in college, he could take it in a local college's summer session. This way, he kills only one summer instead of two.</p>
<p>Plenty of people go to college -- even near-the-top colleges like Georgetown or Cornell -- without having taken calculus. Take a look at Cornell's course-tne-time roster for this semester: <a href="http://cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/RSF6/RSF6MATH.html%5B/url%5D">http://cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/RSF6/RSF6MATH.html</a>. There are 20 sections of Math 111 (first-semester calculus, equivalent to AP Calculus AB). Figure 20 students per section. That's 400 kids taking first-semester calculus. Your son would not be the only one (if he ever even takes it at all; with his interests, he might not need to).</p>
<p>My d's high school only required 3 credits of math so that was all she took. (against GC's advice). It did affect her in that some colleges absolutely required 4 years to apply. (Any NC Public University for example) I am going through the same thing with D2 now- hates math so will only take the required 3 even though it may limit college choices. Oh, well. Check the requirements for schools that he is interested in - some are flexible but some are absolute.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think it is necessary to sacrifice two summers to math, especially if there are more interesting things that your son could do in the summer. What about taking Honors Algebra 2 as a junior and Honors Precalculus as a senior?
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</p>
<p>This is sort of what I am thinking. I can't see why it's so important for <em>this</em> kid to get to AP Calc. The PreCalc and the APCalc show on the curriculum offerings as <em>optional</em> so maybe the school will go along with not doing the summer course. </p>
<p>Our local community colleges and local state uni (which is sort of a CC anyway) do not offer Algebra 2 in the summer at all. I'm also not finding local schools, public private or parochial, offering a credit bearing Algebra 2. They do offer a review or preview survey course -- but not the full year math credit course.</p>
<p>In general, "four years of math" means "math through precalculus." It should not matter that the first year of the sequence was taken in middle school. Some of the more requirement-obsessed state universities might have different views, though.</p>
<p>My daughter, who is applying to colleges right now, only has three years of high school math taken while actually in high school. She took both Algebra 1 and Geometry in middle school and completed Algebra 2, precal, and BC calculus in high school. This year, as a senior, she could have taken multivariable calculus but chose not to because there was a course in another subject that she wanted to take as an elective. Her counselor seemed to think that this was not a problem since she does not aspire to a science or math major. The counselor did NOT say anything like "Universities X, Y, and Z won't consider you because you don't have four years of math taken while actually in high school." Apparently, it doesn't work that way. In our school system at least, high school level courses taken in middle school appear on the student's high school transcript and count toward graduation in the same way that they would if taken in high school. As far as the school system is concerned, my daughter has five credits of math, even though only three were taken at the actual high school.</p>
<p>One other thought: Does your high school offer AP Statistics? If it does, and if there is some reason why your son needs four years of math actually completed in high school, he could take precal and AP Statistics at the same time as a senior. AP Statistics only requires Algebra 2 as a prerequisite.</p>
<p>A couple of thoughts. He needs math through precalc, rather than calc. Although S1 took 4 years of math, he did not take AP-calc; he took something called Advanced math instead. The other thing is that French math is taught differently from math in the US. Algebra and geometry are taught at the same time rather than as separate subjects. So by the end of sophomore year, he won't be as advanced in either subject as would his peers in his regular school, but he will have a start on the next level. French kids, by the way, are all exposed to Calculus i 12th grade, no matter what track they're in, whether humanities, social sciences or math/sciences. They add trigonometry in 10 grade and continue to cover algebra and geometry up through 12th grade. With that in mind, it should not take long for him to catch up with the bits of algebra or geometry he was not exposed to while in France.</p>
<p>I'm just seeing a major issue of him taking only half of Algebra 2 before starting Pre-calc/Trig. I would have personally struggled in Trig without having a full Algebra 2 course under my belt and have to work extra-hard to have done decently in Trig. Also, there is a major issue with splitting up a course like that separated by a full calender year (more dangerous than a just a summer or academic year). The following summer he will either be: A) bored in the class and slack off because he already learned the gaps in Pre-calc/Trig, or B) forget all of the stuff from the summer before and have to play catch up again.</p>
<p>Seems bad all around to me...</p>
<p>I'm one of those who didn't have calc in high school, only through pre-calc (and college prep, not honors at that) and placed into calc 1 first semester of college. Most of my classmates in my Calc 1 class first semester were either second year students or those who took Calc AB but either couldn't or didn't want to take the AP credit in college. I performed much better than most of those students who already were exposed to a calc class. Why? Because I tried harder than them and did the work instead of assuming I knew everything already. </p>
<p>I may have not gone to a 'top' school, but a very respectable school and am now at a top graduate program in my field. </p>
<p>So, I wouldn't buy into him needing exposure to Calc if it isn't his thing before college. </p>
<p>I had only planned to take Calc 1 and leave math alone. But after having it my first semester, I ended up going through Calc 3 plus a course in Differential Equations. Personally, I think it's much better to experiment with classes as an undergraduate instead of in high school.</p>
<p>2006-7 honors geometry
summer 2007 -- first half algebra 2
2007-8 -- year abroad, french math, no credit
summer 2008 -- second half algebra 2
2008-9 pre-calc
2009-10 ap calc</p>
<p>I'm thinking instead of:</p>
<p>2006-7 honors geometry
open summer for ... drivers ed, sports, possible job
2007-8 -- year abroad, french math, no credit
open summer for ... drivers ed, sports, possible job
2008-9 algebra 2
2009-10 pre calc</p>
<p>(the drivers ed is an issue as he will be eligible for learners permit on 7/1/07, but not eligible to test for his license until 11/1 -- so essentially can't test until the summer of 2008)</p>
<p>oops, I'm sorry, I should have read more carefully!</p>
<p>I still agree that he should do the second option. Let the kid be a kid and get work experience before he has to go on to college and forced into a more adult world.</p>
<p>I think your plan is fine and if you get in a panic about not enough math the suggestion to do precalc and AP Stats concurrently seems like a reasonable compromise. If your kid is at all science oriented he'll be at a bit of disadvantage for college - but after all if he were really concerned he could take Calculus summer of 2010.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He is currently in Honors Geometry as a freshman (and he's completed Honors Algebra 1). The school is suggesting taking Honors Algebra 2 in two chunks -- one chunk the summer before France, the other chunk the summer after France. Then, junior year, Honors Pre-Calc, and senior year AP Calc AB.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The school is suggesting something which is very illogical. You cannot divide high school math like that at all, because it is detrimental to that solid foundation a high school student should have prior to the higher maths. You cannot walk in the door for Pre Cal at high school or community college with your algebra foundadtion being that skewered and expect to do well at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
2006-7 honors geometry
open summer for ... drivers ed, sports, possible job
2007-8 -- year abroad, french math, no credit
open summer for ... drivers ed, sports, possible job
2008-9 algebra 2
2009-10 pre calc
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This schedule ^ makes the most logical sense to me. And, all the kid would have to do is take Calculus online at BYU or something the summer of y2k10 and make sure to state that on the University applications.</p>
<p>And actually, the director of studies has decided (today!) that this second plan makes the most sense for my son. No summer math, Algebra 2 junior year and Pre Calc senior year. </p>
<p>This is a very small school -- they graduated 25 kids last year, and have 40 current freshmen. I'm confident that if Calc was necessary for my son, that their plan would work. They would <em>make</em> it work. And it's worked for other kids over the past 40 yearsOTOH, if Calc isn't necessary to his academic track, why spend TWO summers on math!</p>
<p>S is now going to visit the college counselor and check with her about his plan ... but it sounds good to me. And since I've bounced it off you-all, I'm happy with the plan. Thanks for everyone's input.</p>
<p>This is an old thread, but what the school is saying is somehow illogical to me.
Why not give him credit for math if generally math is tought at a higher level in Europe than it is here? I do not know specifically about France, but I can't imagine it being at a lower level. Please inquire. You do have a year to solve this problem.
Another option you might want to explore is taking an online class while he is in France and thus killing two birds with the same stone :-)</p>