<p>My daughter is a freshman in performing trumpet at a New York music conservatory.
It seems she gets to play very little and not much coaching- she was getting more at home for a fraction of the cost we are paying. I don't want to hear it will improve by the time she is a Junior as we are making huge sacrifices to support her right now. She is even going off campus and paying some more to belong to an outside brass ensemble. She is talking of transferring she is so down about it.</p>
<p>Suggestions gladly received. We called the Dean and was told maybe she should organize a group herself?? What are we paying for to send her to a music conservatory if she's not playing music?</p>
<p>Trumpet mum, I wish I knew the answer or how to help you. I agree, I would be extremely disappointed after all the hard work your daughter has put in to get where she is and now be on standby. Post your question in the music majors forum under the majors section. The people there are great and give great direction</p>
<p>Interesting. It may be a function of her instrument. String players can play in an orchestra, but the orchestra only needs a couple of trumpets (usually) and those slots would go to upperclassmen.</p>
<p>I would take the suggestion to form her own group seriously. A brass quintet? Surely there are others in her boat.</p>
<p>OTOH, if she thinks she can get more playing time/instruction at a different school, for less $$, she may want to look into it.</p>
<p>Isn’t she in a studio with lessons at least weekly and in some kind of ensemble? I am not sure what conservatory would not be providing those basics. Many places focus the freshmen and sophomore years on learning technique and repertoire. If that is not happening a change may indeed be in order. DD did organize her own recitals when she wanted more performance time than they had freshmen and sophomores scheduled. </p>
<p>This is also a lesson for those looking at where to go. Ask those questions regarding philosophy of underclass performance time. If she is not happy and is not learning what she needs from the studio professor, a transfer may be in order. But understand the ramifications and explore thoroughly as she may loose a lot of credits and take longer to graduate.</p>
<p>She should definitely be getting a weekly lesson and play in a required ensemble, at a minimum. There would be “coaching” in both of these situations.</p>
<p>Some Freshmen have to “wait their turn”, so to speak, if they are in a very competitive environment with talented upper classmen and/or graduate students. Some opportunities will definitely go to the more experienced players, and the younger students will eventually be in that position (of course, some Freshmen hit the ground running, even in a competitive conservatory, but this is not the norm).</p>
<p>It’s back to the “Big fish in the small sea” vs “Small fish in a big sea”. At a top conservatory, there is a lot of competition, and students who were at the top of the heap in their high school bands/orchestras, or even regional or pre-college programs, might be in the middle 50% or lower in a competitive conservatory program. </p>
<p>Some students thrive on the competition and desire to move up to those coveted few spots, and some don’t. As much as anything, it is important for your D to see how well she handles all of this. The music world is very cut throat and a very, very large sea. I’d encourage her to put together her own group, play outside of school, etc., because these are exactly the things that kids, including very talented ones, who are shut out of some groups due to their age or inexperience, do. These experiences can be immensely valuable too.</p>
<p>But, if your D wants to play in everything all at once, she is probably better off in a less competitive program where she will be more of a shining star. Only you and your D know if that is the right choice.</p>
<p>I know that at some conservatories (Juilliard, I think Eastman), brass players rotate through ensembles, so there isn’t just one brass section for every concert for a semester. I understand that at Juilliard, most brass players play on only one or two concerts a semester. However, from students I’ve talked to, they see this as a plus, as they have more time to prepare for lessons, repertoire classes, chamber groups, and so on. Forming a brass quintet would be a great idea. A good quintet can last all the way through the undergrad experience, and can lead to gigs and sometimes things like competitions and festival opportunities (Aspen’s brass quintet fellowship, for instance).</p>
<p>Perhaps the size of conservatory is making a difference here (eg. is it small?)-- although perhaps your daughter also did not expect the plethora of non-playing time such as theory, history, ear training etc. or the rather independent nature of practice time vs. ensemble playing. Is there a chance she has just not found her stride in terms of position auditions? (Eg. is that historically an issue?) Or that her teacher and her are not a strong fit? </p>
<p>Although my son is not performance stream on trumpet, (he’s in the roughly equivalent to music technology program with composition) trumpet is his first instrument, and there seems to be no shortage of playing opportunities at his school (University of Michigan SOMTD) but that’s likely because beyond their top tier symphony and campus symphony they also have so many different wind ensembles, concert bands, jazz ensembles, etc., plus music theater, digital music ensemble, etc. which in turn is because they have 1000 students at the somtd, plus another 40,0000 at the rest of campus, many of whom seem to be pretty high level players even thought they aren’t in the conservatory per se </p>
<p>I am thinking a large school like UMich might benefit a brass player just in terms of ultimate opportunity among multiple performance styles/situations. Jacobs at Indiana might be another, or UNT in Texas.</p>
<p>So if she goes looking for a new program, it might be both fun and informing for her to visit some of those schools and talk to some brass players there to see if the ‘big college approach’ is more her style. Lots of symphonies hire out of those programs, I am given to understand. </p>
<p>The advice from the dean about starting her own ensemble, however, was solid. During HS, while my son was in wind ensemble and jazz and summer programs, the addition of an independent (and highly entertaining) ensemble (think a cross between Tower of Power and jazz…) probably stretched him in more ways than all the others. Even though he was first chair in the other ensembles, he still played WAY MORE in the ensemble (lone trumpet) and as a result of so much soloing really came into his voice and improved dramatically in improv. So there’s nothing wrong with “making” your opportunities for play – sometimes it’s what sets you apart ;)</p>
<p>Best wishes – I hope your D finds her niche.</p>
<p>I think that bigger schools probably have more options. My son was a string player at Eastman, but I know that they had both orchestra AND wind ensemble for brass players. There is an orchestra for freshmen and sophmores, one for juniors and seniors and a chamber orchestra for grad students. Wind players rotate through the appropriate orchestra based on the needs of the cycle. Each of the orchestras and the wind ensemble perform 4 times each semester. If they are not assigned to orchestra that cycle, they are in the wind ensemble. Eight semesters of ensemble work are required of all instrumentalists for graduation. </p>
<p>Freshmen string players are required to participate in a chamber group. My guess is that it is also true for wind players as well. After freshman year, students can sign up for chamber music and either make their own group or be assigned. </p>
<p>Forming her own group is a great idea but it will be more valuable if the school is willing to provide a coach for the group.</p>
<p>I think there is a learning moment here, without getting into the specifics of this particular situation. I think the Dean’s suggestion is a good one, in that part of the music student experience is learning to take responsibility for things like performance opportunities. This is only going to increase as time goes on, because musicians these days, from gig players to orchestral and solo musicians, more and more have to take responsibility for their careers, to market themselves, network, etc. Obviously, that doesn’t replace what a music school should offer IMO, I am not saying “they give you lemons, make lemonade” if in fact the program is somehow deficient (which I cannot judge), but kids have to learn to take responsibility for themselves, this is critical because there will be less and less structure as they move on, if what I have seen holds. Whatever D does, I would highly recommend that she become more active, look to create opportunities, even in programs where they provide a lot, because it is a valuable learning experience for when the ‘real world’ beckons IMO. I wish her luck, let us know what happens:)</p>
<p>To piggyback onto what musicprnt wrote-- my daughter is also a freshman at a NYC conservatory. It’s a different experience from high school, when she was involved in two pre-college programs, an orchestra, two or three ensembles, and had 2-hour lessons plus other opportunities. Now she rotates through the college orchestra, has one ensemble class (no performances outside of class critique) and a one-hour lesson. </p>
<p>She and some friends formed an extra-curricular quartet. It is not coached, although they are considering finding a coach (whom they might have to pay). They were able to get onto the school’s booking roster, but so far no gigs. But it’s a start, and they are rehearsing regularly. She’s also finding some performance opportunities in and outside her school, playing for composers and whatnot. I suspect the lack of performance opportunities will be a problem for any freshman in a conservatory. It’s just a different atmosphere than high school where opportunities are set up for you. Now the job is to make your own opportunities.</p>
<p>Agree with what the others have stated, and I’ll re-echo the sentiment that it could well be instrument specific regarding orchestra rotation for brass. The requirements shennie outlined for performance organization credit obligations are pretty much the standard for performance BM’s.</p>
<p>Just a note - my son is co-director of a completely student run New Music ensemble at his conservatory/college (musicians from both) - they have three performances of three different programs lined up this week (one Saturday night in NYC) and he rehearsed for 10 hours on Sunday. And he’s a composition major, not performance! So, the performance majors, who are also in the orchestra - and the conservatory is small so every one plays in it - and in chamber groups - must be playing a heck of a lot. Plus the academic requirements… But, of course, joining a student run ensemble is extra-curricular and the choice is up to the individual, including how many of the pieces they want to play in.</p>
<p>SpiritManager brings up another avenue. DD is also participating in the composition majors’ performances. She is one of the few that enjoys the modern music and enjoys performing the odd tones and jumps they write. She has several performances this term in support of both undergraduate and graduate composition students.</p>
A one hour lesson per week (and the very occasional conservatory such as Glenn Gould in Toronto provides 1.5 or 2 hours of private instruction per week; and some private teachers will provide an addition 0.5 hours when students start just to get them on a firm foundation in terms of technique);
Participation in one large ensemble (i.e orchestra, wind ensemble, concert band etc.) every semester; at most conservatories this will involve about 6 to 10 hours of rehearsal per week; at some non-conservatories this may be only 3 or 4 hours per week; often the large ensembles have sectionals in which the students get coaching which is more specific to their instrument;
Participation in a chamber ensemble for at least 4 semesters if not 8; the string players often have 6 or 8 semesters of required participation; the brass players often only have 4 semesters but often can choose to do more semesters; the number of hours per week that students spent in these varies and is often dependent on the students; some chamber ensembles rehearse a bare minimum of 2 hours a week and others rehearse over 10 hours weekly.</p>
<p>In addition the following are often available:
Weekly or biweekly studio classes in which all of the students of the private teacher get together for 1 or 2 hours to hear each other play; often only 2 to 4 students will perform at a class; often the teacher will ask the listening students to critique the performance; with some teachers, the studio class is a type of weekly master class. I would hazard a guess that fewer than half of teachers have regular studio classes, but I think these can be invaluable.
A host of extra-curricular options such as: a) opera or musical theatre orchestras for specific performances; b) recitals for composition students; c) ensemble participation in the recitals of other students (many schools allow students to include a chamber work in their recitals; some pianists and certainly collaborative pianists include works for piano and another instrument in their recitals); c) student-organized concerts that have charitable or educational missions (e.g. free noon-hour concerts downtown for office workers; school concerts).
Competitions in the school (most schools have at least one concerto competition per year in which the prize is a performance of the concerto with the school’s orchestra) and competitions outside of the school.</p>
<p>My son is in first year and had to start turning down opportunities at the end of September because he has been too busy playing. His teacher does have a regular studio class and holds a couple of additional classes prior to both sets of orchestral auditions and prior to school competitions. His quartet is in the 10+ hours/week category. They have at least one paying concert booked. He has been asked by a grad student collaborative pianist to perform in her senior recital. Orchestra is 6 hours per week, but with individual preparation and practice expected in addition to that (marking of bowings and listening to recordings expected outside of rehearsal time). He played all three rounds of the fall concerto competition and is booked to perform the concerto with one of the orchestras after Christmas. He plays every second week with a worship team at his church. While I don’t know the schedules of his friends in his school, I know that they are doing plenty of playing and are so busy that they are not wanting more opportunities. </p>
<p>Every school is different and each has its strengths and weaknesses.</p>
<p>A couple of more thoughts: If your daughter does not envision things improving in future years, she may want to research other schools. </p>
<p>In the meantime, encourage her to consider this year a good time to develop and refine her own skills through lots of private practice. Trumpets are quite limited in the number of hours they can play per day and some trumpet players find themselves not so much short of hours in a day as short of lip strength at the end of the day. Maybe her teacher or school has a deliberate policy of limiting playing for 1st year trumpets to help them avoid lip burnout.</p>
<p>Thank you again for all the great tips and ideas that I am passing on to her- many that my husband and I had thought about but she needs to hear from others.
She had played so much last year ( two orchestras -coaching, jazz ensemble and private lessons) and was not at a high school but was going to the local junior college as she was home schooled and graduated at 16- too young to leave then. So at 17 and living in New York and being pretty shy I think maturity and experience will help her develop and take a little more initiative.
Its the lack of much formal coaching or orchestral work that worries me. She was in an orchestral piece when she first started in September-( she had to sit out some pieces as there were too many trumpet players) they performed in October and now no more orchestra for freshmen till January! Also her trumpet ensemble is meant to meet 2x week but has had no rehearsals in the last two weeks due to the teacher being out of town. Also her trumpet teacher was out of town as well so no private lessons for two weeks ( I think they do get to make up). A good student can practice and put in the hours but needs the coaching!
We will see what the school can help us with as we have voiced our concern and when she speaks up with her teacher and the orchestra manager they have both told her to put it in writing and let the “higher ups” know.
Will keep you informed.</p>
<p>Lots of good suggestions, esp. from violadad. My S is a jr at a major conservatory. He actually had more performances in high school that he had freshman/soph yrs, but far more playing time at the conservatory. </p>
<p>In his case, performance majors are required to participate in 8 sem. of a large and a small ensemble. Depending on the instrument, of course, and the needs of the ensemble, there are more or less playing opportunities. Some of the players who play instruments that are in overabundance have far fewer opportunities that S does and have to create their own. Each of these ensembles gives public performances 2-3 times/sem. </p>
<p>In addition, there is a weekly 1hr lesson + weekly studio class. S performs for studio class roughly once every 3 wks. Last year, he was in a quartet (organized by another student) that practiced 2-3 times/wk and gave 3 performances. They were supposed to compete in a national competition, but dues to class conflicts were unable to. I might add that the students can keep up with rehearsals and “coach” each other to some extent if the prof is absent. Take initiative.</p>
<p>This year, S has done just that and is playing much more.</p>
<p>He actually started performing in public at 13 and his soph yr of hs was the year in which he performed the most. Now his playing time is greatly increased and he only needs occasional coaching/feedback. I would think that most conservatory-level students should be at the point where they know what they need to work on (whether it be technique or learning specific pieces) for at least a short period of time and should not be entirely dependent on a teacher to lead them. Same for a small group.</p>
<p>There have also been numerous opportunities to play for composition students, in others’ recitals, etc. And several of S’ friends have organized their own recitals (when they were not required to do so). There’s also the end-of-year jury to prepare for.</p>
<p>S has also been told to record himself and listen and critique his own playing. At this school, at least, students are encouraged to take initiative in organizing themselves, finding gigs, performing, etc.</p>
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